Predators, Thoughts?

[Usnpeepoo]

This all sounds like twisted mess where councilmembers and staff aren't even on the same page.

Council demands people to engage predators on sight, because rules prevent them (preds) from actually starting a fight with more than one combatant and excuse that it is "LRP" to not try Kill Predators on Sight. But their rules allow them to employ the fullest of their gear potential when they are actually engaged on sight, but they aren't allowed to "abuse" it, but if this "abuse" happens, it is being prosecuted by the same council that imposes and has to obey those rules and might actually be guilty of abuse.

Oh, I wonder if this won't get abused, stuff like that never happens.
Its like the time when CIA investigated CIA and found no ties between CIA and drug trade, obviously.
Why even councils are separate from regular staff at this point? One would think that its for the cross-monitoring. Council watches over staff and staff watches over council. But council watches over itself and staff doesn't watch over council.
I fail to understand.

Arbitrary rules on top of arbirary rules with council watching itself to not bent those rules too much, while actuall staff is not allowed to interfere, unless it is somebody super high ranking (but I assume people in those position don't do it much because of high trust).

There really needs be an official statement about this stuff atleast. I would go so far as for making the pred honor code as clear as server rules are. There are no wiggle room (outside Role-Play rule where certain LRP behaviour might be excused by admeme if it makes a round fun) for server rules, why can't pred rules be the same?

"Yes, you can HPC dishonorable prey, but don't HPC too many dishonorable prey, because council of beetroot, no you can't engage more than one prey unless they engage you, because council of beetroot and its rules, but prey not engaging you on sight is LRP which is against server rules, but engaging you on sight lets you HPC them, but don't do it too much..."

I think you’re exaggerating what being dishonorable for KOSing a pred is. Ordo put it extremely well how the spirit of the wl clause exists to be a balance in the HC and give room to put down any shitter pred that is seen abusing the HC. Also, (if you played) you’d know that almost all the preds that play right now don’t HPC players for shooting them on sight, and instead engages them normally. Even if they did, there are multiple avenues for players to report actions like that and other pred wl’ed players would report it as well. This is quite literally a non issue (in terms of preds being shot on sight). An official statement isn’t needed because the honor code quite literally explains the entire situation with being shot on sight by a marine (which isn’t to HPC them). There isn’t arbitrary rules, and the council isn’t demanding anything from the player base. Quite literally me and lampshade giving our take on how marines should interact with predators.

[CABAL]

I think you’re exaggerating what being dishonorable for KOSing a pred is. Ordo put it extremely well how the spirit of the wl clause exists to be a balance in the HC and give room to put down any shitter pred that is seen abusing the HC.

No, its not exaggaration.
However "spirit of the wl clause" is just a fancy term to describe arbitrary rule enforcement and excuse for unwritten rule existance.

Also, (if you played) you’d know that almost all the preds that play right now don’t HPC players for shooting them on sight, and instead engages them normally.

If you played you would know that I recently came back to CM and I do play.
Yes, preds don't usually HPC players, but they can due to their rules. Its just that players are at mercy of those pred players and the council of beetroot. If a bunch of marines stops kanye staring at a pred that kanye stares in the middle of nowhere and out of the blue shoot him, then pred is allowed by the rules to cloack and then Plasma Rifle/Plasma Pistol/Spike Launcher them, but those rules are arbitrary and he is discouraged (maybe, probably?) to do so, but is allowed.

So not only the pred rules are arbitrary, but also unwritten. Nowhere in Predator Honor Code (//showthrea...6-Predator-Hon) it is written that pred (as a player) is discouraged to use Plasma Pistol/Rifle/Spike Launcher/Cloacked combat on any dishonorable prey (with small exeption in "spirit of the council of beetroot arbitrary rule enforcement and excuse for unwritten rules existance" where one of the three examples says that HPCing a lone marine who hunts you is no bueno).
We are really here operating on goodwill of a player and unwritten arbitrary rules. Why not extend it? Lets change escalation rules in a way pred honor code does. Lets rely on goodwill of players to not kill each other, but also discourage, or even punish when they don't break the rule, but still achieve death of other player.

Why they can't be written as they are enforced and in their entirety, without hidden stuff and arbitrary sometimes this breaks rule, sometimes it doesn't? Why staff isn't allowed to handle whitelist matters during rounds?

Even if they did, there are multiple avenues for players to report actions like that and other pred wl’ed players would report it as well.

On what basis those reports could be made? Lets just imagine a hypothetical scenario. Its LV pred round, less than 5 xenos left alive, I (as a marine) walk alone with MD in my hand looking for delayliens. I see pred kanye staring at me, so I shoot it on sight (we had no prior interactions, not a marine, or xeno in sight, or MD range). Pred cloacks and spike launchers me to death. So I go to pred honor code and I read:

"Dishonorable:"

"A target or group of targets who attack you without due cause or interfere with your hunt."

Alright, I attacked a pred without due cause. Lets go further, what can he do:

"Dishonorable
These weapons may be used against any dishonorable prey:
Spike launcher
Cloaked Combat"

So by the Predator Honor Code, the only documeted pred rules document I don't even make a report, because it clearly stated pred was allowed to do it.
Now we are encouraged to make reports on everything pred does even if it is clearly allowed by the honor code, because maybe there is some shitty unwritten arbitrary rule that might get this pred in trouble for doing stuff that is technically allowed under the clearly written rules, but council of beetroot sees it otherwise? Yeah, I know people still report obviously allowed stuff about preds, I think I made such report once in my cm life, but its just random people doing that sometimes and their reports are always shut down with "preds are antags" and a small quote with pred honor code with a part saying why pred was allowed to do it.

This is quite literally a non issue (in terms of preds being shot on sight).

It is a legitimate question to clear out the confusion. Preds are allowed to cloack Plasma/spike anyone who attacks them without reason. The only reason being pred already engaged with someone on their team (here I assume it's about pred being engaged with honorable prey, because I doubt that someone can attack predator and become dishonorable, so that he will only use dishonorable tactics and gear to kill that one specific player and will still fight others as they are honorable, the fact I have to assume this, because nowhere it is written). They are allowed by the rules, but maybe not allowed by hidden rules somewhere, or maybe outright unwritten ones. So potential new pred player could get in trouble for doing whatever pred honor code allows, unless you just PM new players with list of those new rules, or that they are keept in "secret" pred discord channel.

An official statement isn’t needed because the honor code quite literally explains the entire situation with being shot on sight by a marine (which isn’t to HPC them).

Haha, where? Where the honor code quite literally explains the entire situation with being shot on sight by marine (which isn't to HPC them)?
Where it is written? The only piece of something resembling a situation like that is:
"Bad Spirit of the Whitelist actions:
Don’t lethal-HPC baldy mc baldface just because they are hunting you down. This would be against the spirit of the whitelist."

Yup, it mentions only HPC, but HPC is only the hyperbole of be-all-end-all pred gear killing potential.

There isn’t arbitrary rules, and the council isn’t demanding anything from the player base. Quite literally me and lampshade giving our take on how marines should interact with predators.

Yes, there exactly are a lot of arbitrary rules and the council of beetroot is demanding from player base to shoot predators on sight, otherwise its LRP. Am I supposed to quote each and every councilmember "asking" quite aggressively (in my opinion) to shoot predators on sight, otherwise its LRP/being a pussy?

The simple truth that thick skulled council of beetroot members can't comprehend is that preds weren't made to be shoot on sight and aren't balanced as such. For how long preds exist? 5 years? More? Plenty of time to write those unwritten rules and make them clear.
At this point I withold my input till higher ups in staff make an official statement if KoS preds (by both marines and xenos) if LRP, or not. If it isn't LRP, whole discussion is invalid and pointless.

[Usnpeepoo]

How did you type all of that in less than an hour bro

[CABAL]

How did you type all of that in less than an hour bro

A lot of experience from the good ol'days of marinemain fanaticism and radical anti xenomainism on forums. I think back then I made those even longer and in the same time span. Now I'm just a shadow of the stupid kid with too much time I was back then, but people don't change and I still like to fight with words on the forum about stuff I do, or don't care, while being not much smarter. Atleast I learn the language better, so on my side nothing is in vain.

Don't take my posts too serious, they might seem overtly aggressive, but they aren't, thats just me writing it this way for whateverthefuck reason.

P.S:

Look at the official statement. (Yeah, it is a pic for ants, click to make it bigger).

Not LRP BABY!.jpg

[Joe Lampost]

Ordo is correct, You SHOULD NOT BE abusing your caster as pred to murder everything that attacks you, especially if the target in question is alone. That is why the council has placed the spirit of the whitelist clause into the honour code. In the past few days I have been actively hunting predators both as marine and xeno. and in none of those rounds was i shot with a plasma caster. It surprises me because they are well within their rights to do so but they do not. I think it paints a pretty good picture about the current state of whitelisted preds.Also GOJi telling me to find something else to do seems pretty ironic coming from you bro NGL . And no it was not because they know my marine I was using alt characters for some of those rounds.

[Gnorse]

a pred that isnt a giga slimer retard will not HPC you for shooting at them. Fucking shoot them.
Personally i couldnt care less and won't hunt someone who is making it clear they don't want to fight, and even if I do i'll always throw the body back. But the amount of times i've seen marines go "hey look a friend" or "Dont shoot him he's a friend!!!" while i'm literally gutting their squadmate right infront of them is insane.

[Fredthebrick]

Schizo hours

Unless you want to sit down and detail out every possible encounter or situation for the HC, a clause in the effect of 'spirit of the WL' or 'don't be a dick' works. If they're a dick? They lose the WL. Sure preds COULD go around HPC'ing anything that attacks them first, but as we've seen that quickly ends in them losing the WL. As someone who recently got the WL and has spent a decent amount of time playing and observing preds with far more attention to their actions than I ever did before, I can very confidently say shit like that happens VERY rarely. In fact, the only times I've seen marines HPC'd since I got the WL was when they were being horribly LRP and moronic, or a few times during gear retrieval on the Almayer. Outside of that it's usually a stun, but even those are rare as fuck.

Pred's when faced with a gung ho marine who shoots first will almost always respond by pulling their weapon of choice and engaging in a battle, or outright avoid the shitter marine entirely. Everything we do as Pred's we have to consider the possible consequences. Near the top of the HC it literally says we 'should be prepared to defend your actions' in relation to possible HC breaches.

When the HPC comes sure there's a chance the Pred is a dick, but they'll soon be de-wl'd. Most often however, it's been considered and thought through by the Pred, and whoever's about to be sent to their god has been found wanting.

[CABAL]

Why this conversation continues? Not shooting/slashing predators on sight isn't LRP (as confirmed by staff), thus the opinion on engaging preds (and what they can, or cannot do) doesn't matter as nobody has to do it and rules where pred starts the fight (not the other way around) are crystal clear and don't fall under abritrary and unwritten category.

[Waseemq1235]

Not engaging a pred is fine, calling a pred a fucking "friend" while they decapitate another marine in front of you is not fine.
As for the HPC stuff, yeah, I've only used my HPC like 1-2 times in the span of.. weeks. We simply won't HPC you because you attacked us unprovoked, because we'll just get deWL'd.
HC shouldn't be a law book, predators should just use common sense in what they're doing.
If I'm not mistaken, the entire "dishonorable if attacked unprovoked" is there to deal with 7-people predator hunting groups, but don't quote me on that.

[Big Man]

I feel like I am going to go out on a limb here, since the pred-mains are mostly replying here, but I'm against preds in their entirety, because they simply interfere with the round. You can argue balance, them being preds (wow), or even easier to kill than most benos. Or any other nitty-gritty. But I strongly feel the premise here is wrong. The idea is, they don't add anything positive to the gameplay, except fun for those playing it. And an OP mob that can freely roam and occasionally pick off marines.