User Tag List

Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Flpfs - Sedition, Insubordination

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Flpfs - Sedition, Insubordination

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    envarm

    Date of Incident
    May 29, 2022

    Your Character Name?
    Faycal Pom

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Flpfs

    Accused Character Name
    Esther

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    5 PM

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Sedition, Insubordination

    Description of the incident:
    I was the XO during the round, deputized as well. The Major Braden "Stephenson" joined the operation after I had deployed the marines.

    Much later in the operation, we had a 1-tile breach east of the FOB. I had an OB aimed there and was planning on shooting it to trap the queen and finish her off with the marines. I had not announced for evacuation launch, nor did the Major.

    In fact, there were over 25 marines on the LZ outside the DS and a bunch in the DS. Esther the Synthetic proceeded to force the DS to evacuate with the reason "queen can reprogram the DS from the console OUTSIDE the normandy"

    First of all, that's LRP, second, that's wrong. She can't lock the DS from the outside console. This forced evacuation literally cost the operation and over 20 marines' lives.

    I was planning on brigging then executing the synth with permission from staff at the time. Unfortunately we got boarded right after and then the server crashed before the round ended so there are no logs.

    There are many witnesses to this, among the major ones are Solidfury7 (witnessed the conversation we had when I forced the synth to CIC and he gave us his reasoning for forcing evacuation against orders), Braden "Stephenson", who witnessed the conversation and unfortunately was SSD during the evacuation.

    There was another SO Eckheart as well who witnessed the conversation and radio communications. Along with the DP but I don't remember their name.

    This isn't just a WL issue. It's also a respect of command failure on their behalf.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    Only witnesses, unfortunately.

    What resolution are you seeking?
    WL removal or at least suspension, and whatever else you feel appropriate
    Last edited by ito726; 05-30-2022 at 10:20 AM. Reason: ckey

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    35
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I was the one of the marines inside the DS when we evacuated and your entire plan was a suicide hold for a chance to bait the queen to enter DS but she wasnt taking the bait, xenos were already entering the DS and killing marines 1 by 1, your own indeciveness killed the marines on the ground because you could not decide whether to evacuate or not when the 30 strong hive breached fob against 20 marines. Its only fair that this report gets first hand witness.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    35
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Update: I just wanted to say marines werent aware of his plan to trap the queen with OB, it was not communicated to anyone, the only announcement we got was "Prepare for imminent evacuation" 1 minute earlier. I was literally watching marines getting lunged and dragged out of the DS while people were wanting to evacuate.

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phenomeus View Post
    I was the one of the marines inside the DS when we evacuated and your entire plan was a suicide hold for a chance to bait the queen to enter DS but she wasnt taking the bait, xenos were already entering the DS and killing marines 1 by 1, your own indeciveness killed the marines on the ground because you could not decide whether to evacuate or not when the 30 strong hive breached fob against 20 marines. Its only fair that this report gets first hand witness.
    You disagreed with my operational command in that operation, that is completely fine I do not expect everyone to agree, it's part of what makes a leader a leader. Take feedback, criticsm but don't expect full support in all cases.
    Nonetheless, the details you've put in are irrelevant. and you asserting that I killed the marines is subjective. The DS had left over 20 marines stranded planetside, and I'm almost certain my own evacuation should the operation have went down that track would've ended up being far less lethal for those marines that were left behind.

    In the end of the day though, none of what you stated is close to relevant when it comes to the Synthetic's actions and reasoning behind them, along with the failure to follow orders.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    35
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by envarm View Post
    You disagreed with my operational command in that operation, that is completely fine I do not expect everyone to agree, it's part of what makes a leader a leader. Take feedback, criticsm but don't expect full support in all cases.
    Nonetheless, the details you've put in are irrelevant. and you asserting that I killed the marines is subjective. The DS had left over 20 marines stranded planetside, and I'm almost certain my own evacuation should the operation have went down that track would've ended up being far less lethal for those marines that were left behind.

    In the end of the day though, none of what you stated is close to relevant when it comes to the Synthetic's actions and reasoning behind them, along with the failure to follow orders.
    You are right that it's subjective whether it was your fault or not and i should not have mentioned that, and i should have just given an account of what i have seen, which i will repeat in this moment with more clarification what happened from the point of view of a PFC, and know that Synth can refuse unlawful order which is why im giving this account to clarify whether your order was unlawful or not.

    We received the announcement from you that we are to pack up things up and board Normandy for imminent evacuation because the xenos breached the FOB with the queen and entered it. The moment i heard that i made my way into Normandy and buckled up, we still had working communications but soon enough Xenos encircled the Dropship, and the marines that were left behind failed to enter the Dropship since xenos were sieging all 3 entrances and they were not in possibility of doing entering through them. Xenos already started picking up marines that were near the doors in the ds, dragging them outside the doors, we were all unaware of your intentions since you didnt communicate anything to us, comms were already down, and i sincerely doubt any of us would follow you in your suicide charge that you were planning. You forcing us to fight to the death is an unlawful order. This is my piece and i have nothing further to add.

  6. #6
    Synthetic Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by envarm View Post
    The DS had left over 20 marines stranded planetside, and I'm almost certain my own evacuation should the operation have went down that track would've ended up being far less lethal for those marines that were left behind.

    In the end of the day though, none of what you stated is close to relevant when it comes to the Synthetic's actions and reasoning behind them, along with the failure to follow orders.
    Evacuation with what exactly? Your plan was to drop your OB ontop of the marine force in the LZ. The time it'd take for you to realize what was happening, think about a course of action and then announce it, would've led to everybody down there dying.


    Your "plan" was an illegal order that I did not have to follow. It's been already decided that obviously suicidal orders like the one you gave are not required to be followed. I launched because the queen was outside the dropship, xenos were getting inside and the PO was nowhere to be seen.

    Guidelines, rule two:

    2 - Do not disobey valid orders from Command personnel. An unlawful order is not valid, thus can be ignored.

    There was no time for you to release new orders as we were mere seconds from getting all massacred. Your OB idea made no sense as the xenos were literally 2-3 tiles right next to us and we'd all die. And how would you exactly push out if said OB actually killed anything? With the entire force either dead, capped, or critical, you'd still be forced to evacuate. There were 33 xenos active by the time we evacuated.

    The groundside was utterly lost and you were too busy analyzing a hopeless situation, so I acted in an effort to follow my self-preservation and save marine lives:

    5 - Do not perform needlessly suicidal actions. Your self-preservation comes first.


    Regarding my knowledge about the Queen, I inferred that a synthetic would be smart enough to know that the queen could operate and hack the console, provided synths can understand the more intricate parts of xeno biology such as understanding xeno speech. I don't believe it to be a whitelist issue.
    Phillip Clap and Esther

    Synthetic Technician

  7. #7
    Senior Administrator and Mentor Overseer
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    338
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Kirshbia
    Envarm
    Flpfs

    Logs before take off. Some logs exuded like some of the surgey log for the Synth and some combat logs for the XO, bone once near the take off they are complete.
    Spoiler Spoiler:




    Logs after the take off. They are complete for the 3 people included. Of particular note is the icly discussion of game mechanics (by multiple people) and the justification given by the synth for taking off. In the later half there is also discussion of both the co and xo being disappointed with the synths' actions and discussions of ml sanctions for the alleged breaches.
    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Trial Moderator: 2021-06-13 --- 2021-07-04
    Moderator: 2021-07-04 --- 2021-10-02
    Investigator: 2021-07-21 --- xxxx-xx-xx
    Trainer: 2021-08-20 --- xxxx-xx-xx
    Discord Staff: 2021-09-20 --- xxxx-xx-xx
    Senior Moderator: 2021-10-02 --- xxxx-xx-xx

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phenomeus View Post
    We received the announcement from you that we are to pack up things up and board Normandy for imminent evacuation because the xenos breached the FOB with the queen and entered it. The moment i heard that i made my way into Normandy and buckled up, we still had working communications but soon enough Xenos encircled the Dropship, and the marines that were left behind failed to enter the Dropship since xenos were sieging all 3 entrances and they were not in possibility of doing entering through them.
    I had entered through the western door, in fact the NW and SW cades were still intact. Many marines were still entering, we were NOT encircled. There is a reason why the xenomorphs were entering from the east door by the way -- because they saw the DS was taking off, so they went in to try to get a kill \ drag people out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phenomeus View Post
    Xenos already started picking up marines that were near the doors in the ds, dragging them outside the doors, we were all unaware of your intentions since you didnt communicate anything to us, comms were already down, and i sincerely doubt any of us would follow you in your suicide charge that you were planning. You forcing us to fight to the death is an unlawful order. This is my piece and i have nothing further to add.
    Yes, there was 1 or 2 xenos trying to pick off marines at the east door ONLY. Those moments were very high stakes, I had the OB aimed towards the east breach -- it would have NOT hit the DS but it would've very likely hit the queen and the other xenomorphs since the breach was 1 tile long. The idea was to fire the OB, and if it hit the queen (which I can see with my laser designator), I'd order a charge by letting marines know she was hit. It was a HE ob too. Alternatively, we would've evacuated if the OB was ineffective. It was an ace in my sleeve, this whole idea of unlawful \ suicidal order is frankly more of a combination of strawmanning and false cause to deflect the irresponsible actions of the synthetic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flpfs View Post
    Evacuation with what exactly? Your plan was to drop your OB ontop of the marine force in the LZ. The time it'd take for you to realize what was happening, think about a course of action and then announce it, would've led to everybody down there dying.
    As per my answer to James Parker above, it was aimed at a fairly safe distance east that would not be on top of the marines as you appear to be alude to. I appreciate honesty, as I try my best to be completely honest. The fact that you are making such assertments, with what I assume to be not even knowing where the OB was aimed, is quite blatantly a straw man argument from your side. In fact, I'm a bit disappointed that you think I would land an OB on our own DS when I'm an incredibly reputable SL that likely by this point dealt with (and mathed) hundreds of OBs.

    Regarding you inferring it to be a suicidal order (which is subjective in your eyes), I've explained in my reply to James Parker above as to what I had planned. It was an ace attempt, nothing more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flpfs View Post
    Regarding my knowledge about the Queen, I inferred that a synthetic would be smart enough to know that the queen could operate and hack the console, provided synths can understand the more intricate parts of xeno biology such as understanding xeno speech. I don't believe it to be a whitelist issue.
    We've literally told you OOCly after your mistake that its both LRP and makes no sense for a synthetic to infer such a thing. In fact, if somehow the Synth rules end up allowing that it would open up a whole can of worms -- synth knowing that would imply that the marines would know it too as its such vital information that they would very likely share the information with WY \ Marines.

  9. #9
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    505
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Seeing as I've been called to speak on this as I was observing this situation.

    I noticed the discussion between the synthetic and the CIC in LOOC, prior to the ahelp, I discussed with a manager online regarding synthetics and it was agreed that fact synthetics do not have knowledge regarding the hijack procedure, except in extremely specific situations such as the Queen has already locked down a dropship before.

    I think with the situation and conversations I witnessed that Esther did this to prevent the hijack, which as stated, synthetics do not have knowledge of, however, I do not think it was done maliciously and they likely got caught up in a chaotic situation.
    <::The Provost is always watching.::>

    Spoiler Spoiler:

  10. #10
    Senior Admin
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    277
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This matter was brought to and discussed at length with the Synthetic council (minus of course flpfs who is part of said council)

    After some deliberation and with agreement with the council, the following was established:

    This was an edge case where both sides acted on what they though was acceptable IC knowledge for their characters. They did not act in malice, nor did they try to avoid the consequences of their actions. As tempers ran hot, everyone was trying to discuss OOC mechanics in IC channels and things got understandably weird.

    For the record, we would prefer if mentioning OOC mechanics would be kept in looc at the very least.

    The Synthetic Senator agreed that knowledge of the Queen being able to override the console, especially without any IC warning (we scanned the logs if at any point a Xeno may have mentioned the hijack plan in IC speech for instance) technically constitutes metagaming but since this is a gray area and due to the fact that flpfs did make a reasonable case for their decision, ultimately this was not a breach of the Synthetic WL Rules and Guidelines and no WL sanction will be necessary.

    Report Resolved. Flpfs will be given a warning for using metaknowlege IC based on the above conclusion, but no punitive Synthetic WL action will be taken.
    Senior Administrator


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •