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Thread: CO/XO should be allowed to Order SSGTs to arrest Marine/Marines

  1. #1
    Senior Member Critilius's Avatar
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    CO/XO should be allowed to Order SSGTs to arrest Marine/Marines

    Commanding Officers should be able to order Lieutenants, SSGTs, etc to arrest marines even when there are MPs on the vessel as there is no reason why this is not allowed.

    Multiple times, I have found it necessary to order arrests to be made, and Military Police although helpful do not solve this to its full extent. There are simply too many rules and restrictions regarding arrests. SSGTs should be allowed to arrest Marine/Marines if the order is given by the CIC (I understand this is controversial but hear me out). SSGTs still spawn with handcuffs that if they use they are breaking the rules which makes no sense, In a CLASSIFIED operation where USCM is sent to uncover a colony that went dark with so many potential things going wrong and it does go wrong most of the time why is it frowned upon for a Squad Leader to arrest Mutineers, Seditious Colonists, People who disobey orders and endanger the whole operation.

    Situation Example: The operation has been ongoing for around 2 hours and it is a stalemate. Multiple marines decide that it is Commands/Corporations/High Command's fault whatever and decide to organize a mutiny. Bravo SSGT sees this mutiny forming and finds these traitors are about to cost the USCM the whole operation.

    Actions SSGT can take legally: Currently, Bravo SSGT can do nothing but refuse to join the mutiny to hinder the mutineers as it is a rule violation to arrest or shoot at these SEDITIOUs marines. This makes zero sense as there is no reason why these mutineers should not be arrested or shot dead on sight if they refuse to follow orders and keep on with the mutiny.

    What Should the SSGT be able to do: SSGT should be able to approach the marines and order them to stand down at once, and tell them to drop their weapons. If the Mutineers refuse he should be able to announce that they are under arrest for SEDITION and have his man arrest these individuals.

    Similarly, there is no reason why a Lieutenant cannot order the arrest of a marine/marines to any other squad leader who is still loyal to his obligations to USCM. It should still be the Military Police who processes these criminals however they should be at least able to be arrested with handcuffs and escorted to USS Almayer.

    Personal Thoughts:In my opinion it is LRP and Illogical watching mutineers run and gather more marines to their cowardice cause while command cannot have these people arrested without breaking rules. Commanding Officer is the Commanding officer for a reason same as the Captain, they should be able to make executive decisions that are followed through as soon as possible as there is no argument of if the CIC is wrong faulty, or not. In an Undercover Classified operation heavily invested by the W-Y Corporation and the USCM High Command. The executive decisions should be followed through and after the operation is over a report should be made and investigations occur after the operation has been concluded that is the most HRP way to have this accomplished.

    What do you think?
    Aden Cooper


  2. #2
    Moderator Firecharge123's Avatar
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    Military police. These rights also include deputized XO’s, SO’s, or Synthetics who are dealing with Marine Law. These rights cannot be transferred.
    https://cm-ss13.com/wiki/Marine_Law

    Why do you think SLs spawn with cuffs in their SL specific kit... zipcuffs and the ability to police carry... they are allowed to detain miscreants, even though the cuffs were made for detaining rogue survivors, there's nothing stopping you from cuffing someone on the field who is being dumb.

    Situation Example: The operation has been ongoing for around 2 hours and it is a stalemate. Multiple marines decide that it is Commands/Corporations/High Command's fault whatever and decide to organize a mutiny. Bravo SSGT sees this mutiny forming and finds these traitors are about to cost the USCM the whole operation.
    yea mutinies suck because command will not be functioning for the next 10+ minutes of the coup unfolding, but the SL can always just say dont mutiny/tell command anyways?

    Actions SSGT can take legally: Currently, Bravo SSGT can do nothing but refuse to join the mutiny to hinder the mutineers as it is a rule violation to arrest or shoot at these SEDITIOUs marines. This makes zero sense as there is no reason why these mutineers should not be arrested or shot dead on sight if they refuse to follow orders and keep on with the mutiny.
    Bravo SSGT doesn't have to join the mutiny... And the mutineers can be arrested or shot dead if they do a mutiny... obviously if the mutineers are shooting people you can shoot back, but defending CIC is up to you as the SL, you don't have to join the marines.

    What Should the SSGT be able to do: SSGT should be able to approach the marines and order them to stand down at once, and tell them to drop their weapons. If the Mutineers refuse he should be able to announce that they are under arrest for SEDITION and have his man arrest these individuals.
    They can already... just say "stop that guys" they are literally the SL who 99% of the time is probably the one rousing his men to overthrow CIC anyways.

    Similarly, there is no reason why a Lieutenant cannot order the arrest of a marine/marines to any other squad leader who is still loyal to his obligations to USCM. It should still be the Military Police who processes these criminals however they should be at least able to be arrested with handcuffs and escorted to USS Almayer.
    Officer Requested Arrests
    Should a Commissioned Officer order an arrest for a crime, MPs MUST arrest that person. Only the Commander and CMP can order an arrest on an MP. They may arrest and hold that person for ten minutes after they have reached the brig while they gather evidence. Should the suspect be declared innocent of all accused crimes, the requesting officer may incur a Prevarication charge. The time for any crimes the suspect committed as a result of the arrest must still be served, however. The CMP or Commander may order an arrested marine to get an NJP instead of a brig timer for Minor crimes. Should the marine already have been given the option for an NJP but refused to do it, they may not get the chance for another NJP in regard to those charges. An officer must clearly communicate that he wishes the criminal arrested, for the arrest to be compulsory.


    Obviously saying that SSgts can ARREST someone is illegal, but detaining someone is perfectly acceptable as long as the person is doing something very illegal (for example) one of the questions on the moderator application is about some medic mass ODing people, you can DETAIN them and BRING them to the MPs and they will process them from there. Anyone can 'detain' just not arrest. Illegal arrests are when someone is detaining someone else for some malicious intent like the CL kidnaped someone to make xeno babies....


    Just saying, what you said already is kinda in game, just SSGTs cant make 'arrests' which pertain to quite litterally going out of your way, arresting someone, bringing them to brig, processing them etc. you also have to think, you need MP hours to unlock roles that can be deputized E.G SO XO, and they expect you to know marine law while playing these roles in the first place, SL doesnt. Any bozo can play SL without ever touching MP, and doesnt technically need to know marine law. If some SL was told to ARREST someone and not DETAIN them to be brought to brig, then they most likely wont know marine law (just judging by the fact SL unlocks without need for Mp hours) and then proceed to process them. Thats why they don't have brig acess like the XO and SO.
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  3. #3
    Primordial Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Excluding the rule/marine law parts from this:
    SLs would be required to carry arrest gear on them, atleast a tazer (medium/normal sized item) and zipcuffs (very small item). This is the bare minimum to arrest single, lonely marine. If there is more than one, they need full MP belt, otherwise he will easly get disarm beaten like any MP does (mutiny requires atleast 5 people, I want to see a fully geared MP to arrest 5 guys by himself, or atleast not being disarm spammed, stripped out of all his gear and cuffed with the same cuffs he wanted to restrain them). Most mutinies form groundside, not always in FoB. Even MP can't perform arrests outside.

    Need also some real life US marine MP nerd who can say that ever in history of marine existance a regular soldier was ordered to arrest other soldier.
    REDEMPTION

  4. #4
    Senior Member Critilius's Avatar
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    There is no need for gear, it is the will to do it that is important here all you need is handcuffs. SSGTs should be able to demand the mutineers forming up to stand down and order them to be arrested. If they refuse the SSGT should be allowed to put handcuffs on them and if they refuse further he should be able to use force if he gets beaten up or killed so be it but they should be able to do it as any hero of the USCM would. All you need is a pistol and handcuffs.
    Aden Cooper


  5. #5
    Primordial Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critilius View Post
    snip
    So SSGT would never perform a single arrest. Can you imagine? Marines are plotting mutiny, commands gets info about it and order SL to arrest certain marine (the one who is the "source" and tries to get others to join). Do you think that any "mutineer zero" would just get himself willingly arrested?
    The only way for SL to arrest other marine without gear (outside cuffs) is to shoot the fucker dead. Which is breaking the server rules as per escalation rule. There is no way in hell that shooting back at someone who tries to kill you would be disallowed, so SL would almost always be killed. In this hypothetical scenario SL first has to order a marine to let himself be arrested, which is a clear sign for that marine that this SL will attempt to kill him if he doesn't, which gives grounds for retaliating just as a marine can do when he is about to be BE'd by WHITELISTED CO. At this point it would be soft-BE rights for SL, even fucking XO as acting CO can't do this shit.
    And even with this, 9 times out of 10 SL would end up dead. And this means SLs would refuse that order every time.
    Again mentioning that this could only happen in FoB, because you can't try to arrest outside safe area planetside and shipside there are MPs to do that.

    I'm not against this idea as a concept, but the mechanics, rules and roleplaying factor too much.
    REDEMPTION

  6. #6
    Whitelisted Predator ChainsawMullet's Avatar
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    SSGTs aren't in the game anymore. SLs are SGTs, same for MPs.

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