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Thread: Metagame/metaknowelge Survivor and the rule issue

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuliy View Post
    I don't think you are understanding my point. What the thing right now I'm complaining are two things. One is that the survivors are violating a metagame rule and the survivor's knowlege limitation, and two is that right now, the admin team is just pushing those violations away to the corner.
    Yes, as I also was informed, developers are handling the issue by removing the headset. But, until the update actually applies, this metagame issue must need to be handled instead of pushing it away to the side.

    Edit : Grammar issues

    2nd Edit : Yes, Common channel are 'general radio channel' that can be used by anyone. However, this right now, the headset is directly connected to the Marine's Command radio channel, which is nonsense. Also the common radio channel are separated by the surface and the shipside.
    Yeah, right, survs metagame this one thing, I got it. But I look at bigger picture to know why this rule is violated in the first place.

    It's common to handle situations in this way and I think it's the correct one. Until update comes, staff will handle such things manually. Just like with benos abusing healing off weeds on Alamayer without Queen. It takes time to patch anything, they can't stop the game for something like that and they can't twist, bend and add rules just like that.

    Staff knows the issue, they will handle it somehow. Admeme's word is above server Rules, they can excuse certain breaks in reasonable way. Right now it's survivors being killed/captured every single time, because first minute after one of the benos evolves to T3 means end for survs and it happens pretty early. Survs are not created just to die 100% times. This problem never existed before, or maybe there was only few minor examples in last couple of years.

    This "metagame" situation can be explained with good IC reasoning. Survs are desperate, they know that distress was send, they don't know who, or if is coming, but they know somebody might. There is no point in barricading yourself anywhere, because benos can access every part of the map that survs can. With glimpse of hope, they decided to make a run for it, to get headset and send their message. If they don't specifically ask for USCM/Marines then there is no meta.

    It is "strange" that scientific colony, or prison contains headsets working on the same frequency as Almayer Command, but that can be easly changed I guess.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Yeah, right, survs metagame this one thing, I got it. But I look at bigger picture to know why this rule is violated in the first place.

    It's common to handle situations in this way and I think it's the correct one. Until update comes, staff will handle such things manually. Just like with benos abusing healing off weeds on Alamayer without Queen. It takes time to patch anything, they can't stop the game for something like that and they can't twist, bend and add rules just like that.

    Staff knows the issue, they will handle it somehow. Admeme's word is above server Rules, they can excuse certain breaks in reasonable way. Right now it's survivors being killed/captured every single time, because first minute after one of the benos evolves to T3 means end for survs and it happens pretty early. Survs are not created just to die 100% times. This problem never existed before, or maybe there was only few minor examples in last couple of years.

    This "metagame" situation can be explained with good IC reasoning. Survs are desperate, they know that distress was send, they don't know who, or if is coming, but they know somebody might. There is no point in barricading yourself anywhere, because benos can access every part of the map that survs can. With glimpse of hope, they decided to make a run for it, to get headset and send their message. If they don't specifically ask for USCM/Marines then there is no meta.

    It is "strange" that scientific colony, or prison contains headsets working on the same frequency as Almayer Command, but that can be easly changed I guess.
    If you don't like 4 civilains not being able to survive against a hive worth of xenos don't play survivor.

    Survivors are xeno fodder, if they weren't the colonists would have killed the entire hive befoe the marines even arrived and this game would be Xenos vs chef with a Mod88

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate_bickie View Post
    If you don't like 4 civilains not being able to survive against a hive worth of xenos don't play survivor.

    Survivors are xeno fodder, if they weren't the colonists would have killed the entire hive befoe the marines even arrived and this game would be Xenos vs chef with a Mod88
    Then what's the point of even having them, then? Just kill randomly two benos and add 8 burrowed larvaes each round and the result will be the same.
    Before fast upgrade/evolution survs were able to withstand benos for half of hour. Not all of them, not in every round, not in every spot, but they were able to delay benos. Right now it's impossible. Rounds where survs achieved more than few kills on benos were rare and everybody cherished their deeds.

    If you like 4 players being defenceless against ruining their fun, then go to play some single player game where you can slaughter everything.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Then what's the point of even having them, then? Just kill randomly two benos and add 8 burrowed larvaes each round and the result will be the same.
    Before fast upgrade/evolution survs were able to withstand benos for half of hour. Not all of them, not in every round, not in every spot, but they were able to delay benos. Right now it's impossible. Rounds where survs achieved more than few kills on benos were rare and everybody cherished their deeds.

    If you like 4 players being defenceless against ruining their fun, then go to play some single player game where you can slaughter everything.
    Don't ask me, I ain't a dev.

    Also if survivors DO survive, then the marines get to use all the meta knowledge they like. So it's in the xenos best interests to kill the survivors always.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Then what's the point of even having them, then? Just kill randomly two benos and add 8 burrowed larvaes each round and the result will be the same.
    Before fast upgrade/evolution survs were able to withstand benos for half of hour. Not all of them, not in every round, not in every spot, but they were able to delay benos. Right now it's impossible. Rounds where survs achieved more than few kills on benos were rare and everybody cherished their deeds.

    If you like 4 players being defenceless against ruining their fun, then go to play some single player game where you can slaughter everything.
    I feel playing survivor is the same as buying a lottery ticket. Either you loose horrible (99% of the time especially with the most recent update) but the 1% of the time when you do survive it opens up for some very good RP situations. As a survivor, however, right now you HAVE to work with the marines or be killed. Either by the Marines or Xenos but dead is dead. Its only fun in so far as you are willing to meta a bit and understand you need to survive till 12:25 and work with the marines, or atleast be rescued by them.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate_bickie View Post
    Don't ask me, I ain't a dev.

    Also if survivors DO survive, then the marines get to use all the meta knowledge they like. So it's in the xenos best interests to kill the survivors always.
    You are trying to eradicate metagaming so much, that you stepped on powergaming ground without even knowing it.
    Survs can't give marines any essential knowledge about xenos that marines can't learn just after first encounter. Acid blood, many types of benos, vent crawling etc.
    All of this marines "learn" after killing first beno and they do it in less than few minutes after first drop. Survs can't even type fast enough to warn marines about threats.
    Survs don't know about hive location if they didn't learned in during gameplay and this is the only thing that is valuable for Marines. Even knowledge about huggers have a leeway, because nobody wants to be forced to just die for the sake of RP. Just as xenos know that "RED DOT" is dangerous, despite the fact that nobody ever used against them OB before.

    Cucking survs on meta level is just straight up beno meta powergaming.
    Survs exist for fun RP and gameplay experience, where you have to survive on your own and then find your place in Almayer, or just be antagonistic to marines. Game is balanced between benos and marines, so every shift in beno power directly affects survs. They desperately need buff and that minor meta isn't really a problem on maps that aren't LV. If survs restored comms and they got command headset, they deserve early drop to save them in current situation where benos grow in power so fast.

    Countless examples of metagaming runners, going for surv spawn points and every weapon available, but that is not a problem, right? Benos can't meta.

  7. #17
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    Right I'm going to post my opinion on this and the survivor role in general as one of the resident survivor mains.

    On topic, I personally see nothing wrong with going after a headset to attempt to call out to passing ship for assistance it makes sense logically and mechanically for a survivor is pretty difficulty as it requires either repairing the planet/station side generators or hacking the APC to unlock it to put a powercell(which you also have to find) in this is all something that the APC an't complete broken which would mean it requires a total fix meaning you also need a power control module, IF you some how managed to get all this done without the xeno's killing you then I'd personally say you deserve the rescue. with regards to calling for help being meta I'd personally say no but on the same note I'd would remove shipside headsets from Planets/stations unless the make logical sense to be there.

    But on the topic of survivors in general they have reached a bit of a hard point, with both marines and xeno's seeing several buffs over time survivors have found them severals in a bit of a hard spot, With younger castes now being more combat effective and upgrade times being lower the amount of time survivors have to get prepped with guns and a decent location an't long that's assuming you even get a gun or a gun worth anything(shotgun/SMG), what survivors could really do with at the moment are different ways to survive that are interesting as well as some quality of life updates, no one really wants to hide in a locker and hope that they an't found simply to survive, only reason I'd see people doing that is for Shipside RP which not all survivors are after.

    My current list of Major complaints/suggestions about survivor:
    1: Planet side Access: Any reason why local resident of LV/Ice can't open a single dam door when the power is restored? I'd either make a new access type for them being "Survivor" or simply give them Civilian Access on their cards.
    2: The ability to pick your "Survivor role" would be a nice addition, kind of odd being a doctor that knows nothing about doctoring.
    3: Add in some mini objectives that survivors can do to help them survive, people seem to like going through long dangerous tasks to get better rewards, LV secure storage, Big red Comms Rescue, The shocked doors survivor meme are some example of preexisting ones that fit of the bill secure storage being less of one but still something that takes time and brings with it a good reward.
    4: Spawn survivors with a half decent weapon, revolvers really don't get you far neither do hatchets or pickaxes.
    5: Add more and Spread out Map weapons and ammo a bit more so xeno's can't just predict where survivors will be going or are at for the first several minutes.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    You are trying to eradicate metagaming so much, that you stepped on powergaming ground without even knowing it.
    Survs can't give marines any essential knowledge about xenos that marines can't learn just after first encounter. Acid blood, many types of benos, vent crawling etc.
    All of this marines "learn" after killing first beno and they do it in less than few minutes after first drop. Survs can't even type fast enough to warn marines about threats.
    Survs don't know about hive location if they didn't learned in during gameplay and this is the only thing that is valuable for Marines. Even knowledge about huggers have a leeway, because nobody wants to be forced to just die for the sake of RP. Just as xenos know that "RED DOT" is dangerous, despite the fact that nobody ever used against them OB before.

    Cucking survs on meta level is just straight up beno meta powergaming.
    Survs exist for fun RP and gameplay experience, where you have to survive on your own and then find your place in Almayer, or just be antagonistic to marines. Game is balanced between benos and marines, so every shift in beno power directly affects survs. They desperately need buff and that minor meta isn't really a problem on maps that aren't LV. If survs restored comms and they got command headset, they deserve early drop to save them in current situation where benos grow in power so fast.

    Countless examples of metagaming runners, going for surv spawn points and every weapon available, but that is not a problem, right? Benos can't meta.
    Powergaming and metaknowledge are intrinsically linked, one leads to the other. Is it meta for survivors to meet up in the armoury? They don't know that other survivors are going to go there ICly but OOCly survivors know where to hold and where to find other survivors, e.g. Secure dome holdouts.

    Buffing survivors would just result in large numbers of xenos dying before marines even land which would lead to xeno buffs being needed and would overall adversely impact game play for marines.

    Most survivors don't RP, in fact it's the most boring part of being a survivor. Survivor players have fun trying to survive, hence their role name. Your meant to be outgunned and outnumbered because that is what being a survivor is, you won't last forever, but you have to try and last long enough.

    Your talking alot of nonsense about xeno power levels. Xenos seem strong to survivors because they have had to be balanced around survivor strong points like reinforced wall room holdouts (e.g. Secure Dome) and the maps survivors are weak on are maps where they lack these or where they are not obvious.

  9. #19
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    This is another non-issue that people want to force changes over.

  10. #20
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    Survivors is a Power/meta gaming role. Their sole purpose is to give marines a green pass to use their meta knownledge as hard as they want. As survivor your only objective is not to survive, is to DELIVER INTEL to the USCM and then fuck off and die if you wish. Lame? Bad? Maybe. But that�s how the role is in the present. Survivors have been the same since they were added and it�s a high risk / low or no reward job. It�s made for masochist

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