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Thread: Staff Report - ScarletReign

  1. #1
    Member Anuv's Avatar
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    Staff Report - ScarletReign

    Staff Report
    Your BYOND Key
    Date of Incident
    October 13, 2022
    Your Character Name?
    Janice 'Foxy' Lean
    Their BYOND Key
    Approximate time and date of the incident
    ~10:00 PM Central
    Which of the following are you reporting?
    3. Enforcement Action Taken
    Description of the incident
    The purpose of this SR is to dispute a note that I believe was wrongly given to me with incorrect enforcement action taken. I have posted the following as best as I remember it from yesterday but I don't have logs.

    I began a round on LV-624 as a Delta engineer. I geared up and moved onto DS1 before first drop with bags of supplies. Shortly after I got situated an OT named Bob Parker came in and walked directly to me despite other Marines (and other engineer-skilled players) being on the Alamo. He asked if I had room for a "kit". I was a little confused and said that I was carrying stuff already - but I was curious what he meant by a "kit" - to which he replied that he had a "special grenade" for me (he used quotes in that exact manner). Out he dropped two custom C4, a remote signaler, and a rat. I asked if the rat was part of the kit and he replied yes. He then instructed me to use the C4 on the rat and use it as a grenade.

    At this point I was only aware of the following, in absolute truth:
    -I knew that C4 could be used on certain bodies/corpses. I had seen it done many times, especially in HvH for gibbing.
    -I was unaware of any problems coming from using C4 on something that could be moved, as I had seen others do so before.
    -I was under the impression that C4 and OT grenades were similar in both power and use.
    -I have experience in engineering roles but zero (0) hours of OT, and I have never once tried to prepare any custom explosives nor tried to use them beyond arming and throwing OT grenades given to me.
    -I was actively aware of what I believed to be the most recent CM Rules and Rule Clarifications posted to the best of my abilities since my return ( and

    With those things in mind, I said something along the lines of okay. I was handed custom explosives already prepared before first drop by someone who appeared to be a very experienced OT (more later) and he was insistent on me using them.

    I deployed and chose to help set up the FOB. While within the FOB I attached the C4 to the rat by equipping the C4 in my hand, placing it on the rat, and left the rat at the FOB. I did not use any mechanical exploits, abuse any bugs that I was aware of, or did anything besides deploying C4 in the exact manner that it has always been intended to be placed and had always done before - with the single click on a target. I did not perform surgery, glitch the rat out by attaching it to something attached to the C4, put it in a backpack or satchel, etc. I equipped the C4 and attached it to something.

    ***(Important: The following is presented as an observation relevant to this issue with some degree of certainty but not absolute certainty as I didn't get logs. If I am misremembering the following please disregard my claim regarding Jarek and/or Amber as witnesses to the C4 rat. I am requesting chat logs to be pulled approximately 25-35 minutes into the round at the FOB for what was said by the PMCs and both Jarek and Amber after they all arrived at LZ1). After I attached the C4 to the rat I buckled it into a chair for a moment. Shortly after that a group of PMCs walked into the FOB and set up a turret which shot me near-crit. I said some stuff about being shot but eventually the PMCs noticed the rat and were commenting on it.
    I am certain that two active admins were playing ICly and were part of the PMCs and were in *visible range* of the rat, but I am only **somewhat** remembering that Jarek actually ICly said something about the rat. I'm not sure Amber said something beyond replying to my complaint about the turret shooting me. Regardless, neither of them said anything in LOOC, PM, or ICly about it not being allowed. I need logs to be certain, but I believe it was Jarek of the two that saw it and said something about the rat. Amber was also there, but again I don't know if she noticed it. However, I am 100% certain that some of the PMCs that were grouped with them (Jarek/Amber) saw the rat and commented on it in front of them.
    Importantly I am absolutely not trying to place blame on either of them for not warning me about it - but considering it was in full view of them without it seemingly being an issue, I again felt that nothing was amiss.

    Sometime after I dragged the rat to hydro with several Marines watching and cheering me on from behind. I asked for help to push me while dragging it and eventually threw the rat into a gap in some resin walls by tfort and detonated the C4. I don't know if it killed any xenos but I did hear it go off.

    I was eventually injured and OD'd on Tram and shook it off in the APC.

    At that point ScarletReign PM'd me to ask about the C4 and a rat/mouse.

    I replied upfront that yes, I used it and that it was given to me by an OT. I also stated right away something along the lines of not being aware it was a problem, which I felt was an appropriate opening given that I was PM'd soon after it being used.

    I don't have logs - but I do remember that I was soon informed that it was a bug exploit and that I would be given a note. I explained the OT's behavior and the situation with regards to myself. As far as I was able to tell none of it was done with abusing a bug/exploit or circumventing mechanics as far as I was aware. I was under the impression that I was using something fine per the OT and fine per in-game mechanics. I equipped the C4 and I clicked on something. It was only after a few replies that I was actually asked about who the OT was, to which I replied with the specific chat logs of the OT giving me the "special grenade", and I again reiterated the situation on how it was handed to me and how I used it.

    The replies that followed were more about the context of why I was given a note (to track patterns of abuse, don't worry notes aren't a big deal, etc.) and less about the actual situation, as whatever I presented seemed to be brushed aside. When the Rule Clarification that I seemingly broke came up I was given a Discord channel URL, one that I was unable to access at first. I had to eventually search for the specific Rule Clarification on the Discord myself to actually see it - and the Clarification was there, made two months ago, and posted above various other uncategorized clarifications. More importantly - the clarification linked was about C4 being attached to a rat *and then* placed inside a backpack. Only further did it mention that "As a *general* rule, C4 is not supposed to be mobile after planting" with a following ruling also stating that armed timed OT grenades couldn't be placed in backpacks. The clarification also said (on August 19th) that it was a "bug" that would be "soon patched up" - but there was no in-game mechanic that impeded it yesterday. Not to mention (again) I was misled into thinking it was fine as a "special grenade". The use was not deployed at a hive, or to prevent my capture, and the C4'd rat was never placed inside a bag at any point. The clarification also mentions the C4 must be visible, which it was at all times.

    At one point I was told that (in so many words, not a direct quote) ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking them. I was pretty taken aback. I like to believe that I follow all rules that a responsible player is capable of knowing, so that really caught me off guard. I actively ahelp bad situations and try to guide players into not breaking rules via IC RP or LOOC. My counter was asking just how is a player expected to reasonably check in on rule clarifications if they're not announced nor posted on the website and instead posted in a channel on Discord? Weekly? Every morning? How far back is a player required to read and memorize every single clarification? Especially in a channel (figurative) that's outside of the actual website CM Rules and Rule Clarifications? I find it pretty wild to chide a player with "ignorance is not an excuse" for not knowing about a situation this incredibly specific and niche, as opposed to more common sense rules/rule breaks. The Rules Clarification webpage says that you shouldn't remember every clarification, and use both places, but the actual clarification about this simply stated it was a "general" thing and a bug, to which I absolutely, positively, with all seriousness did not abuse or try to exploit with any malicious intent in any capacity. Had I known, I would have never done any of this and this SR would not exist.

    I was also given some manner of reply commenting on how them being sorry for how "distraught" I was, which felt was odd. I believe I was handling the ticket and the situation in a respectful, if somewhat direct, manner. I really, really, really, really (really) don't think that someone trying to address what they think is an unfair and permanent punishment - regardless of its "intensity level" - should be taken lightly, especially if said person thinks they're the victim themselves in the situation. Notes of any type have a permanent impact with regards to treatment towards you regardless of circumstances or severity. I simply gave my perspective about why I thought I was being treated unfairly with objective evidence.

    However, the round had ended for some time and I was asked if I would allow the round to end, to which I said fine. There was some conversation about notes and WLs and their impacts as a whole but again, I was wanting to discuss my own situation. The round then ended.

    My two issues with the action taken against me:
    1. The main issue I have is that I was incorrectly held accountable for a breaking a Rule Clarification that addresses this scenario beyond the scope of what I actually did (C4 on rat in bag), was labeled as a bug regarding a "general rule" with its use despite being completely normal and expected via regular mechanics, and it was left in a channel in a manner difficult to access with countless other very niche rulings layered throughout. As far as the specific clarification goes - it seems the issue is armed C4 being able to be placed into backpacks and hidden/obscured or moved. It mentions that as a "general rule" it should be visible AND immobile, yet being mobile was something possible with a normal in-game mechanic and was an expected outcome given how I was instructed to do so and so easily performed it. I had seen C4 being used on objects and moved before, so I did not know it was not typical. There is a warning on the Clarification webpage that a player is expected to review the webpage and the Discord for clarifications - but to scroll through uncategorized Discord messages to find and remember a specific niche ruling only to accidentally overlook one and get punished feels, frankly, like some "hah gotcha" dunk at best. At most verbal awareness should be given and the specific clarification referenced for situations similar to this, especially if there was no intent to abuse.

    2. Additionally, regarding this actual incident, I returned to CM a few weeks ago after quitting following a previous incident and, at times, I have been back on my "beloved" CL game. I don't know if I have ever wronged Bob Parker ICly (or OOCly) but I am extremely suspicious about why they singled me out on the DS. Bob didn't ask anyone else to use the "kit" - he came right to me (and yes, other players on the DS had engineering skills to use C4 too). A simple Discord search shows that he has been an extremely seasoned OT main for years and, without sounding too conspiratorial, this incident almost feels like some borderline manner of banbaiting (or notebaiting if you want to split hairs) given how it was something he passed onto me and goaded me into doing. I find what happened in my situation to be no different from a malicious RTO intentionally giving FOB coords for an OB and then staff noting the SO that actually fired it. I was given instructions from what I believed to be a reasonable and experienced player, something I have done countless times with Marine Law, Req, etc. The fact that I was given the tools for what is a specific and known bug by another player and told to do so and I am the one who got punished is what has me confused beyond the Clarification issue itself.

    I am politely asking for logs to be posted with Bob Parker, myself, the PMC group, as well as any other relevant information that may help. And if accepted, the removal of the note.
    Thanks. Sorry for the novel.
    The specific clarification here:

    OT in question showing he has been known for a few years:
    Do you understand that staff make the final decision in the resolution of this report?

  2. #2
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    Heyo, apologies for the delay on this. I'll be pulling logs within the next 48 hours.

  3. #3
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    Here are what I believe to be the relevant logs for this report. I can obtain additional logs if requested.

    I am not posting logs of Janice actually using the mouse+c4 combo since they have admitted to doing so and all parties agreed that it happened.

    Bob Parker seeks out Janice to give her the mouse+c4 combo.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    Scarlet speaks with Anuv/Janice regarding the use of Mouse+C4 exploit
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    I feel it prudent to point out that while there is a rules clarification regarding the abuse of Mouse+C4 in our official Discord, there is no such clarification on the official "Rules Clarification" page on our wiki.

  4. #4
    CM-SS13 Vice Host
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    Sorry this sat for so long, I'm afraid I had no idea it existed until now.
    In this instance, you received a note for doing something exploitative, though that was not your intention. Though it was not your intention, it did happen. This note is a record of that and also an acknowledgement that you were understanding of the situation.
    Given that I was the Whitelist Overseer at the time of this being issued I can say it would not have impacted an application under my jurisdiction. I cannot speak on behalf of Fortelian in this instance, however I see no reason for that to have changed. You were not banned nor subject to any punitive action.

    It also follows that while the Rules Clarification channel on Discord is not available to people not in the discord, it remains the easiest way to keep up to date with the rules as they change. The Official Rules Page is updated with major alterations, and the Rules Clarification page on the wiki is irregularly updated with posts from the Discord.

    In this case however, pertaining to ScarletReign's actions, I see no fault or breach of procedure.
    Charles & Arthur Edwinson
    Synth Percival | Artyom
    Yautja Kjhute Luar-ke

    Spoiler Spoiler:

    Discord: forest2001#2001

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