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Thread: Economicairborn - Rule 11

  1. #1
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    Economicairborn - Rule 11

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    sg2002

    Date of Incident
    October 28, 2022

    Your Character Name?
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Economicairborn

    Accused Character Name
    Kenneth Lance

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    10:00

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 11

    Description of the incident:
    During a round where I was CO the CMP set me up for ignoring an appeal request and then faxed high command to get me arrested. The high command issued an NJP instead.

    The possible rule 11 here constitutes him not making a good faith effort to notify me about the needed appeal.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    I do not have the full evidence, but here's what I know know:
    1. Apparently he was trying to notify the CIC about the needed appeal by calling CIC multiple times on the phone DURING the briefing. Which he knew full well would be empty due to all of the officers having to be present on the briefing itself.
    2. He said that the tried to contact me on the radio too, which I much have missed, but he does not seem to have a made a good effort at it, so this needs to be examined, how many messages there were from him concerning it and on what channels. I'm usually pretty good at following the radio chatter.
    3. This is not as important as the previous two, but still relevant, he could have send an MP to CIC in person since he had around five of them and they were coming by CIC from time to time anyway.

    Do you understand that staff make the final decision in the resolution of this report?
    Yes

  2. #2
    Discord Manager MrDadMan's Avatar
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    Logs for the incident!

    If I missed anything important you feel should be included, message me on discord @Frog#6006 and I'll see what I can do!



    Involved:

    Economicairborn - Kenneth Lance (CMP)
    Sg2002 - Roman 'Fire' Kacew (CO)
    2nd party (partially involved)
    3rd party (other)



    Initial arrest
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    CMP asks CO for their present for an appeal
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    CO's end
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    CMP makes a fax and sends it
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Additional logs later in the round
    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Major Amber Walsh, Exceptional Leader

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Za'Kul, Foolish Hunter
    Spoiler Spoiler:

  3. #3
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    I'll pop my head in as the CO councilor who handled the warrant in round. While technically the appeal was advised over the radio I had felt that it was reasonable for the CO to have missed the calls during the bustle of the beginning of the round, especially given briefing was starting, and elected to send a basic NJP instead. The goal was to remind and curb future behavior rather than overly disrupt the CO's round for what seemed to have been an honest mistake and happenstance of missing two messages in the usual flood of messages.

  4. #4
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    XO picking up the phone during the briefing makes this a bit more messy, but the general gist of it still stands.

    It is MPs responsibility to notify the Commander about the need for an appeal in a reasonable and timely matter. The normal radio communication protocol of "if the receiving party didn't hear you, you repeat" should apply here, even if you have the noble end goal of arresting the CO, because to do that you first have to "cause intentional delay in appeals" processing and that seems to be banned by Rule 11.
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew

  5. #5
    Mod Manager ScarletReign's Avatar
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    Hi there! After reviewing the logs, the crux of the issue seems to be as follows:

    - The prisoner has asked for an appeal. They have not asked for an appeal from the CO in particular.
    - The CMP proceeds to ask for the CO over MP comms once, then also calls the CIC using a phone and relays the request to the XO. The CMP is told by the XO that the Major is at briefing.
    - The XO moves to deploy, so they never mention the MP issue to the CO again.
    - The CMP then waits until the 10 minutes are up, releases the prisoner that was not appealed properly and sends an arrest request on the CO. This is processed by a Whitelist Councilor who issues an original NJP for the whole thing.

    Here are the issues:

    The CMP asks for the CO, in MP comms, once. He follows this up by using a phone to talk to the XO, something that the CO will not be able to hear because they are conducting briefing. He does not try to verify that his message was heard. This is odd behavior for someone who is supposed to be extra diligent when it comes to making sure that everyone in their brig is properly processed and the decisions have been verified. Doing this once then waving it off unfortunately suggests an attempt at gaming the system.

    Why did they persist on "counting" the appeal timer even though the XO clearly had told them they are conducting briefing. They seem to have made no further attempt to contact them, even though they had a good 7 minutes left. Why was there no repeated attempt to calling the CIC? Calling out on comms? It seems like the CMP was alone in the brig so they count technically leave the prisoner alone but there is surprisingly zero effort put into the appeal once the CMP realizes the CO didn't seem to hear them.

    The CMP then seems to use a prepared witness statement and has the marine just sign it. This writing starts while the CO still has time to answer the appeal and again, nothing but the initial callout is made to remind them of that.

    All these together seem to, very clearly, indicate that the CMP instead of making an effort to guarantee a proper appeal for a prisoner in their Brig (which is both their right and tends to calm prisoners down) seems to have opted instead to use this situation to try and arrest the CO. Having the marine sign the pre-prepared witness statement in particular seems like a somewhat underhanded tactic. This is also exacerbated by the fact that the CMP claims they contacted the CO "thrice" while logs seem to suggest that there was actually only one direct attempt (lack of response explained by the CO conducting briefing) and one indirect attempt.

    All of this makes me believe that after the CMP realized the CO most likely did not hear their request for an appeal after talking to the XO on the phone decided to just take no action until the appeal is botched.

    One of the reasons we require MPs to be diligent with appeal processing is that they are literally the first line of IC defense against wrongful arrests. Purposefully letting an appeal slide to try and go for a CO arrest stands in direct violation of this idea and can constitute Malicious Compliance.

    Holding briefing is a requirement for COs, and failing to do so is an arrestable offense, even if the CO was aware, they would be committing a crime to leave the briefing to handle the appeal. The CMP appears to have made no effort to have the appeal handled by someone else once they are informed the CO is holding briefing, further compounding that the CMP mishandled this situation.

    Due to note history, a jobban will be placed.

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