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Thread: Opinions on how to make MPs better

  1. #1
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    Question Opinions on how to make MPs better

    Generally curious what the community thinks of them and what they want to improve them into something better since that's happening now.

    (without adding remove MPs plz comments)

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    Member Nunk's Avatar
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    MPs were originally intended to bring IC punishment for IC crimes, reducing the need for moderator intervention. For instance, if you broke a window, you'd answer to MPs instead of a mod bwoink and note.
    However, over the years, MPs have morphed into the worst of both worlds: an in-group of constant rule lawyering, in-character AND out-of-character punishments, on top of contributing to heavily delayed ahelps and player reports as most jannies hate wading into Marine Law.

    To fix this, bring MPs in line with their roles during the Vietnam War - as that's what the Alien™ IP is based on, and restore executive power to the CO/XO over Military Law.

    MPs turn into a backline role providing security inside the FOB, to power, and patrol the routes from FOB to frontline.
    -- They lose the ability to perform arrests for minor crimes unless ordered by members of CIC (higher ranks overrule).
    -- They cannot fight on the frontline, but can contribute to FOB defence.

    Slash brig timers by 50-75% across the board.
    -- Other stations with substantially longer rounds have substantially shorter brig timers.
    -- Current timers make zero sense in CM, from either a gameplay or lore standpoint.

    Outside of certain major crimes (not limited to sedition, manslaughter, treason), CO/XOs should have the power to waive elements of ML as they see fit. COs moreso than XOs; they are a whitelist, and are expected to act like one.
    -- Vietnam Commanding Officers were notorious for this, with different units having drastically different standard procedures.
    -- The Almayer is a ragtag battalion operating with 2nd rate equipment on the Outer Rim. The highest rank (CO/XO) has final say.

    Remove Provost ERT.
    -- Lore implications of instant teleports aside, I've never seen this role do anything helpful that wasn't solved in a player report.
    -- They're a fancy outfit for jannies to powertrip whilst wielding a Mateba.
    -- They do nothing. They serve ZERO purpose. They should

  3. #3
    Senior Member Usnpeepoo's Avatar
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    either make the role support marines or remove it

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    The three stances are:

    1: Remove MPs and just have moderators deal with issues MPs would

    2: Just giga buff MPs and make it so its illegal to annoy MPs in any way shape or form. OOC protection

    3: Make it so MP shenanigans and delta doing funny shit is actually a mechanic.



    The first, just removing MPs. Its ok. I prefer it to number two. The amount of rounds where a shitter MP does some bullshit and takes CIC's time and effort while theyre trying to win a war is fucking stupid. And the little politicking of MPs boasting "Well I brigged 9 delta marines this one round, beat THAT!" Or "yeah I've brigged 4 CO's because they broke this little tiny rule. Just follow the law bro." Resulting in lack of leadership in CIC, collapse of the marine front and organisation and losing the round. Reminder that there IS a thing stating that MPs are meant to help a round go SMOOTHLY not BY THE BOOK AND HEY WE LOST AND DIED BUT AT LEAST THE BOOK WAS FOLLOWED!!!

    The second is not fun in any way shape or form. It's just shit sec ruining banter between marine mates, people roleplaying and skirting the line and "pick up that can" being entirely unlawful. If you want people to act like robots with zero personality, go ahead I guess. It also has no options for actually combatting MPs at all as a marine. You're just meant to shut up and take it in the ass like a good marine. The people who often side with number 2 are also the people who support such things as: Removing possibilities to break into brig. Making brig extracts unlawful or against server rules. Removing key roles from a round for nitpicks or some fragile ego was hurt. Buffing MPs who can just stun lock marines and theres nothing the marine can do about it. It isn't fun. And I'd rather just be bwoinked by a moderator and banned for an hour or 3 instead of dealing with MP shittery in that nature.

    The third is my preferred. It's the most IC. Most fun for both MPs and marines. As long as people go for the spirit of it and don't take it as just riot every time. Personally I've always gone with the belief that the marines upon the Almayer are like, really dumb and not exactly the cream of the crop. It makes sense that they're starting shit aboard the Almayer. Buddy has false charges and CO doesn't care? Bust your homie out of brig. Got a grudge to settle? Fight in the boxing ring like real marines.

    One thing that stops me from giving a damn about MPs is the sheer amount of variance they are allowed to do to ruin someone's round. You can easily stretch things out so that something that may take 7 minutes of someone's round into 30+ minutes. Am I going to have to be processed for 5 minutes, then in brig for 10, then being awaited to be let out for 3, then awaiting the alamo or normandy to transport me for 5, then the round is most likely to a forgone conclusion. Or are they just gonna say "give me 10 pushups and fix the window" or are they going to ignore it entirely? Why would I take that chance of the first option? I'd just flee.

    MPs either have to actually contribute to the round, such as being fobbits, which I agree with. Moving into a "ground support police" or whatever the recent PR made says. And actually becoming humanised as apart of the marine force. Basically a militarised role of both police and requisition staff. Ensuring things are running smoothly at the fob. As well as shipside. They do that shipside if they're good. Its a general thing to do when your role is mostly shipside. But telling them they're there more than just antagging people and brigging them in the first 20 minutes of the round ensures theres a positive reputation being set and they're doing things the entire round.

    As someone who plays on medium to low pop (65-90) and im in a leadership position, with my squad being maybe 7 people. And I see like 4 MPs on the manifest... Its just pathetic. So much potential help there. Just chilling looking at cameras because god forbid deltoid late spawn breaks a window into bravo prep to take a mag harn. Instead of waiting in req for 5 minutes for one like a good boy.
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    Primordial Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Make MPs fairly good at fighting xenos (about Spec tier, of course not so impactfull, just a good guy with a gun), let them fight xenos by being a honour guard of field officers.

    And that's it. Already tested for years on various servers. MP (Security) that actually helps you instead of either ignoring you, or working against you, will surely make them better.

    You know who is more likely to stop a marine from doing something, MP with taser, faster armor, stunbatton, flashbang, OOC protection, pepper spray, ML etc, or some other well known PFC who proved he fights xenos good?
    In the CM past you could have a riot over SADAR spec arrest quelled by a single vet marine who says that SADAR is shit anyways, lets get them xenos.
    It works for every fucking role, nobody listens to no name CO, nobody cares about no name synth etc. But every role outside MP can actually prove themself in combat and have their name known in positive way.
    REDEMPTION

  6. #6
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    Let's not all pretend that it's JUST mps.

    As someone who plays both sides of the law; marines are just as big of shitters. Hell just look at the reports. It's constant stream of marines screaming only to later find out in logs.. you stabbed someone, resisted arrest, lied.. etc.

    You won't have mps stop power tripping until you do some of your own enforcement. Because no one wants to deal with it.

    Any of the "I'll be cool" mps burn out almost instantly from having to deal with the same Mt... breaking the same door.. to steal Jones.. then dealing with an ahelp because you tased him after he said "fuck you", threw something, and then ran Because "arrest procedure says you have to SAY they are under arrest".

    Last night a new mp said in looc "I'm never playing mp again". Because all of engineering rioted, over a minor arrest. That could have been the Antibeck.. but you weeded him out.
    Last edited by BeardedWall; 11-10-2022 at 06:42 PM.
    Felix the Synth: hat fanatic, nice robot, one time double agent almayer synth executed for sedition. Occasional murderous mopbot.

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    Member BatteryBan's Avatar
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    Better proposal. Remove all of shipside except for Medical, research, OTs, and CIC.

    The game is a TDM. Shrimple as. The RP is as high as you want to make it.
    Keagan Richter: Working slave of the BRAVO SQUAD.

    Also the fattest XO of them all.

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    Honestly? The only thing that is really needed is the removal of OOC protections for the MPs. One of the things that makes CM Sec the most frustrating is that, most of the time, anything beyond a couple of shoves, running away, or occasionally breaching the yard gets you noted and/or banned for improper mutiny. Just as an example (not trying to bring up drama) I remember back when Beck got shot in the face by a PFC for trying to arrest during delta, and then they were ahealed back to full with no permanent consequence. Obviously if someone like OT nades the entirety of brig or something then that might require intervention, but it would make the MP-PFC dynamic a lot more fun if you could fight back a la normal SS13.
    Masar "Misfortune" Ratoz

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeardedWall View Post
    Let's not all pretend that it's JUST mps.

    As someone who plays both sides of the law; marines are just as big of shitters. Hell just look at the reports. It's constant stream of marines screaming only to later find out in logs.. you stabbed someone, resisted arrest, lied.. etc.

    You won't have mps stop power tripping until you do some of your own enforcement. Because no one wants to deal with it.

    Any of the "I'll be cool" mps burn out almost instantly from having to deal with the same Mt... breaking the same door.. to steal Jones.. then dealing with an ahelp because you tased him after he said "fuck you", threw something, and then ran Because "arrest procedure says you have to SAY they are under arrest".

    Last night a new mp said in looc "I'm never playing mp again". Because all of engineering rioted, over a minor arrest. That could have been the Antibeck.. but you weeded him out.
    This is a big point regarding deleting MPs. Like there is no such thing as an anti-beck. It's a role that contains 90 percent of the bottom of the community barrel who enjoy having a sense of authority. There was a time when they were needed, but given the tightening of round-start shenanigans, they went from having a purpose to no purpose, and while even back in the day, they weren't treated great they had a sometimes very pressing need to have them around. They have had multiple years at this point to fester with, you know, the general dislike of the role and no real reason to exist, barring the occasion MP griefer or Jim Miller/Diet Jim Miller, etc, etc.

    In their current state MP's in CM are LRP. They don't bring any real value to rounds in general, and frankly, they've either needed an actual purpose or needed to go for a couple of years now, and I don't think there's anything that can really be done to salvage it. Like the perception of them is sunk in so deeply it's far too late to do anything meaningful with them. MOST players want to ignore them as actively as possible with the rare exception of people actually being shitters at least half of which are usually just doing it to give the MP's something to do.

  10. #10
    Member BatteryBan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aces View Post
    In their current state MP's in CM are LRP. They don't bring any real value to rounds in general, and frankly, they've either needed an actual purpose or needed to go for a couple of years now, and I don't think there's anything that can really be done to salvage it. Like the perception of them is sunk in so deeply it's far too late to do anything meaningful with them. MOST players want to ignore them as actively as possible with the rare exception of people actually being shitters at least half of which are usually just doing it to give the MP's something to do.
    Truer words were never spoken.
    Outside of very rare cases like xenos managing to sneak onto the Almayer, MPs only exist to grief marines. Where there are shootouts between marines or stabbings, there is already an outside admin sleeping someone and prepping the banhammer. Minor disputes can and always will be solved by marines if an MP never steps in. I barely dick around with MPs nowadays because #1 I don't want to spend half of the operation in a cell watching Youtube. And #2 I don't want said MP player PMing me for my "improperly" escalated crime.

    And you're right, MPs being annoying cunts is so ingrained in the minds of most normal players that no amount of changes to the rules or ML will change how people see them. Geeves (only good PR) MP aesthetic overhaul PR and subsequent ML changes that came with it were supposed to be a second chance for MPs. But as we all saw silencer tried discrediting each change, got grilled, left the discord, and painted an only worse picture of MPs. The situation was not helped by what I heard was the "MP Cord" banning Geeves for attempting to explain the changes to them.
    Keagan Richter: Working slave of the BRAVO SQUAD.

    Also the fattest XO of them all.

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