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Thread: Multiple, unknown - Rule 6, Rule 15

  1. #1
    Whitelisted Synthetic Kineem's Avatar
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    Multiple, unknown - Rule 6, Rule 15

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Kineem

    Your Character Name?
    Chance Warden

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Multiple, unknown

    Accused Character Name
    CMP Emma McCain, MP Justin 'Blackarrow' Smit, MP John'Longarm' Stevens

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    Round began at roughly 2:20PM Central Time

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 6, Rule 15

    Description of the incident:
    I was the Corporate Liaison of the round. I had more or less been dicking around with faxes when a PMC Team Leader spoke over Command comms announcing their presence planetside, soon to be coming up to the Almayer. Captain Tom Dinkle stated they would meet the PMCs with the MP team and greet them, to which the PMC Lead specified they did not want to be met by the MPs or the CO, rather, they wanted to meet me in my office. The Captain acknowledged their request, staying in the CIC to continue dealing with the operation.

    The PMC Lead, escorted by a few PMC personnel, came in with xeno eggs in hand. After closing the shutters they informed me of a top priority mission that was currently underway. They were tasked with acquiring eggs then using them to produce Corrupted aliens, then evacuating with the Corrupted. The marines were not allowed to catch wind of the mission. The team moved eggs into the inner portion of the office to stash them, and when they opened the shutters again, we saw MPs standing just outside and staring into the office, watching us. The CMP had told the MPs to 'find where those PMCs are'.*

    The PMCs complained to Dinkle about the MPs watching them, and he then came to speak with us personally. He told the MPs not to follow us, and when he left, they still kept following us as we moved into Research.

    While I was not aware of this at the time, one of the MPs had apparently been requesting permission to capture and torture the PMCs to figure out what they were doing.** I'm uncertain where this conversation over MP comms fits within the timeline, but if I had to wager I would assume it's somewhere around this time.

    The CMP Emma McCain came to Research and spoke with the PMCs after they complained some more over comms, while I walked off to check on the eggs in my office. I wasn't really paying attention to what the CMP said, but it apparently it was enough for the MP team to finally get out of Research. One of them still stood around south of Research for a little while until they got bored and left.

    The roughly ten minute long hold-up with the MPs refusing to go away, demanding the PMCs be disarmed, was part of the reason the PMC team was unable to complete their objective, along with (I believe) a PO deeming it necessary to spy on the PMCs via Research cams then use the Command console to claim the PMCs were hostile, they hijacked the Alamo, and were breeding more aliens to attack us with.

    The MP team was validhunting, assuming the PMCs were hostile and tried to actively catch them in the act, ignoring the CO's lawful orders to do so. As MPs, they physically cannot disobey lawful orders from Command to do so.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    How you would punish the accused:
    If they have a history of shitlery as MP, a CMP/MP ban. Otherwise a warning would suffice.

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    I was the 'spying' PO.

    I'd had my suspicions ever since the PMCs came up, from a completely decimated colony, having not a single scratch on them or a round expended, along with the xenos killing marines in droves. My inkling was that, since they came up with all these factors, they had something to do with it. So, I spied on them, and saw the breeding via cams as the xenos were boarding. What with the dropship being hijacked, and the PMCs breeding the EXACT same creatures, I informed the entire crew.

    With the PMCs coming up from the colony as survivors or instigators of this mess, they should've been searched and disarmed by MPs. The whole fact that they weren't, and that an admin told the xenos not to attack them/not to attack xenos (mentioned in deadchat), is pretty dumb. The MPs were pretty justified in following the heavily armed men of dubious loyalty around. I'm more concerned about the insistence of staff running exclusive badly-thought events like this with no regard for the impact on the round at large, over and over again.

    EDIT: Not keen on posting further here because there's some wild accusations being thrown around. PM me if any information from my half is needed.
    Last edited by Chaznoodles; 03-12-2019 at 10:16 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member scsnv's Avatar
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    I was the W-Y Lead during this round. MPs were waiting in the Hangar to receive us - fine, not an issue. I informed them that we were to speak to the CL first and foremost (which, to their credit, they agreed to). When we got to his office, it was pretty difficult to get them to acknowledge that the meeting was to be in private - but eventually they caved in and allowed us the privacy to converse. When we finished our private discussion in the CL's office, we opened the shutters to find that MPs were waiting there for us (it had been seven or so minutes, if I were to guess).

    By this point, the CO (Tom Dinkle) had established that MPs were to allow us to travel freely. But they were entirely intent on hampering our movements and accompanying us everywhere we went despite the CO's orders. Eventually I managed to talk them out of following us into Research, but apparently they had floated the idea that we were somehow sketchy and that carried onto other shipside staff. This is completely ignoring the fact that apparently an MP requested to torture and interrogate us PMCs - point being, the sentiment was there from the get-go.

    That being said, in my opinion the PO checking the cameras (Marcellus Mason) was a separate instance of validhunting. But he seemed intent on disliking and acting suspicious towards us PMCs from the beginning. Bottom line, they acted hostile towards us from the get-go, despite the fact the CO and W-Y established good relations. This is of course because of the fact that since PMCs came up via the Alamo, and this is clearly an event, we must be doing something sketchy. It reeked of meta knowledge and it kinda screwed over the event. I won't agree or disagree with the punishments Kineem has suggested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaznoodles View Post
    I'd had my suspicions ever since the PMCs came up, from a completely decimated colony, having not a single scratch on them or a round expended, along with the xenos killing marines in droves. My inkling was that, since they came up with all these factors, they had something to do with it. So, I spied on them, and saw the breeding via cams as the xenos were boarding. What with the dropship being hijacked, and the PMCs breeding the EXACT same creatures, I informed the entire crew.

    With the PMCs coming up from the colony as survivors or instigators of this mess, they should've been searched and disarmed by MPs. The whole fact that they weren't, and that an admin told the xenos not to attack them/not to attack xenos, is pretty dumb. The MPs were pretty justified in following the heavily armed men of dubious loyalty around. I'm more concerned about the insistence of staff running exclusive badly-thought events like this with no regard for the impact on the round at large, over and over again.
    I don't see how you ever made the IC extrapolation that we somehow didn't expend a round or that no damage was taken. That's something that you pulled out OOC. I can't confirm nor deny that admins told them not to attack us - we simply didn't come across them. And we weren't instructed to not attack xenos. We were simply told to make our way to the Almayer to get these eggs laid.

    Our loyalty was not "dubious". Relations were good from the get-go. Everyone was getting along, actually. Yet a few people seemed insistent that somehow we were doing something wrong simply due to our existence. The Captain was fine with us being there and not being searched - we were guests, and he instructed MPs to leave us alone. There really isn't much IC justification to continue validhunting us at that point. I think your justification was OK, but in reality it really wasn't IC. Not "a single scratch on them or a round expended"? That's a little odd.
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    I was MP Chuck Bicar that round. I wasn't watching the PMCs due to sending a fax about the CO (more on that later).

    First of all, yes, the MPs were ordered by the CO to leave the PMCs alone. However the wiki states clearly that MPs cannot follow unlawful orders. Letting 5 heavily armed individuals wander around the Almayer unsupervised would be Neglect of Duty. Whilst in some rounds the MPs probably would have just done as the CO told them, the CO had created several issue that round with the Military Police Department.

    First, the CMP ordered the checkpoints manned and squad marine to be kept in the briefing area until after brief. This, of course, pissed of a lot of people. The CO decided he wanted the shutters open, but instead of just ordering them MPs to keep them open, used a somewhat passive aggressive announcement.

    After brief the CO then went into the Brig and pardoned every criminal regardless of crime (including major crimes MPs have to enforce) then berated the MPs for that and called marine law a threat to the mission.

    This pretty much set the stage for when the PMCs turned up, with a complete breakdown in trust between the MPs and CO, as well as a suspicion the CO would just pardon any crime (because they already had). The MPs wanted to disarm the PMCs (given their AP loaded PMCs with great armor) but the CO disagread.

    The MPs have an obligation to keep the Almayer safe, which the CO hadn't show any intention of doing, which is probably part of the reason his orders were treated as unlawful.

    It's worth noting the CMP asked me to fax High command about the PMCs ( I had already sent one fax about the COs excessive pardoning).

    Overall the CO didn't follow marine law and used their power to engage in LRP actions such as not being suspicious about the 5 heavily armed mercenaries with all access and berating the MPs for trying to keep an eye on them.

    Note on Validhunting: This isn't TG. Watching armed mercs as MPs isn't valid hunting, the CO refused to let them be disarmed so it's a reasonable course of action to make sure they keep their weapons holstered.

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    Ok I'm the captain of this round. I'm going to post a mouthful so get your butts in gear.

    This is what happened from my POV before I started recording my round:
    I woke up 12:06 as Commander. I make my way to CIC but see a req line stretched almost to the cryo beds so I man it because I'm nice and the faster these guys get their gear the better behaved they will be. While I'm doing req shit I hear a lot of radio chatter about how medics cant get their shit and a very wide consensus of how MPs are being shitters. After I'm done req I make an announcement to let people go where they want to go to get their gear and for MPs to relax. Then I go to brig and see this:

    https://i.gyazo.com/7ed7e7c9963d9175...43c05fad60.png


    Two fucking specs in brig, including the RPG spec. So I pardoned both of them because they were arrested for stupid shit like having zipcuffs (im not even kidding) because specs are important for my operation. This makes one MP buttmad for some reason but I don't actually care because so far I get the vibe that my MP team is full of petty tyrants and that is not something I tolerate.

    WARNING BIG ASS PICTURE: This is what happened from my POV after I started recording my round:

    https://i.imgur.com/1M150an.jpg

    This is the video of the ending of my round which is better captured as a video rather than lines of dialogue:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-sx...ature=youtu.be


    Basically the two MP's (John'Longarm' Stevenson and Justin "Blackarrow' Smit) are the primary culprits of this shitfest. The CMP surprisingly kept trying to get the MP's to leave the PMC's alone but they wouldn't listen. Honestly those two MPs give me a meta-buddy vibe because they are both aggressively dumb and banded on one primary goal but that's far fetched. My MP team was full of retards but give the CMP a break apparently they just got unbanned for something and I can vouch that they didn't do anything wrong. A bunch of people wanted to valid-hunt the PMCs for some retarded reason and honestly I was too overwhelmed with a bunch of stuff to deal with this properly because we had to evacuate like 20 minutes after we landed and things were just very chaotic for me. Personally I think Marcellus and the two MPs went out of their way to do some gay shit that lowered the enjoyment of the round for the parties involved. Marcellus didn't do anything wrong per se but was still a net-negative. The two MPs repeatedly ignored orders from the Captain and CMP and should definitely be punished.

    So yeah there's my take on this report.







    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate_bickie View Post
    I was MP Chuck Bicar that round. I wasn't watching the PMCs due to sending a fax about the CO (more on that later).

    First of all, yes, the MPs were ordered by the CO to leave the PMCs alone. However the wiki states clearly that MPs cannot follow unlawful orders. Letting 5 heavily armed individuals wander around the Almayer unsupervised would be Neglect of Duty. Whilst in some rounds the MPs probably would have just done as the CO told them, the CO had created several issue that round with the Military Police Department.
    They are PMCs, corporate. Here is both an IC and OOC justification to let PMCs have their guns.

    IC: They are corporate and thus allowing them more privileges than a usual guest makes you look better to the Company which in this universe is a very very good thing to have.

    OOC: PMCs are a rare role to acquire with fancy tools. If I was one, I wouldn't trust my fancy guns to some retard MPs because they will just lose/steal them. I am bound by the rules of the server to not just murderbone with my super-weapons so there is no problem with me being armed.

    Is this reasonable to you?

    First, the CMP ordered the checkpoints manned and squad marine to be kept in the briefing area until after brief. This, of course, pissed of a lot of people. The CO decided he wanted the shutters open, but instead of just ordering them MPs to keep them open, used a somewhat passive aggressive announcement.
    I made the passive-aggressive announcement to make marines less mad that there are shitter MPs making their lives hard and thus lower tensions so I can actually brief without grenades going off.

    After brief the CO then went into the Brig and pardoned every criminal regardless of crime (including major crimes MPs have to enforce) then berated the MPs for that and called marine law a threat to the mission.

    This pretty much set the stage for when the PMCs turned up, with a complete breakdown in trust between the MPs and CO, as well as a suspicion the CO would just pardon any crime (because they already had). The MPs wanted to disarm the PMCs (given their AP loaded PMCs with great armor) but the CO disagread.
    I can pardon whoever the fuck I want especially for the retarded charges of having zipcuffs. I can order you to not disarm PMCs and you have to do it. I don't care what you have to say on this matter.


    The MPs have an obligation to keep the Almayer safe, which the CO hadn't show any intention of doing, which is probably part of the reason his orders were treated as unlawful.

    It's worth noting the CMP asked me to fax High command about the PMCs ( I had already sent one fax about the COs excessive pardoning).

    Overall the CO didn't follow marine law and used their power to engage in LRP actions such as not being suspicious about the 5 heavily armed mercenaries with all access and berating the MPs for trying to keep an eye on them.

    Note on Validhunting: This isn't TG. Watching armed mercs as MPs isn't valid hunting, the CO refused to let them be disarmed so it's a reasonable course of action to make sure they keep their weapons holstered.
    The CMP didn't ask you to fax anyone, you kept whining that you wanted to fax so me and the CMP told you to just go. They are not just "heavily armed mercenaries" they are corporate professionals that the Company has a vested interest in. The USCM is basically a bitch to the Company so they can send fucking Corporate goons to your vessel whenever they feel like it. I don't see what is LRP about me giving the PMCs the privilege to be on the ship armed.
    Last edited by Imheretohelp; 03-12-2019 at 12:36 AM.

  6. #6
    Whitelisted Synthetic Kineem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaznoodles View Post
    I was the 'spying' PO.

    I'd had my suspicions ever since the PMCs came up, from a completely decimated colony, having not a single scratch on them or a round expended, along with the xenos killing marines in droves. My inkling was that, since they came up with all these factors, they had something to do with it. So, I spied on them, and saw the breeding via cams as the xenos were boarding. What with the dropship being hijacked, and the PMCs breeding the EXACT same creatures, I informed the entire crew.

    With the PMCs coming up from the colony as survivors or instigators of this mess, they should've been searched and disarmed by MPs. The whole fact that they weren't, and that an admin told the xenos not to attack them/not to attack xenos, is pretty dumb. The MPs were pretty justified in following the heavily armed men of dubious loyalty around. I'm more concerned about the insistence of staff running exclusive badly-thought events like this with no regard for the impact on the round at large, over and over again.
    They're highly trained professionals and so it's probable they have someone medically trained or they simply used one of the colony's Nanomeds to treat themselves (one exists in Marshalls, off the top of my head). You didn't perform a search on them so there's no way you could tell they didn't fire guns or didn't get injured and treated themselves. You just assumed this so you can have a reason to be suspicious and follow them around the entire operation when there's overwhelming lore in their favor. I didn't even intend on having this report include you, but I suppose you also were doing some metagame-y shit here.

    PMCs aren't survivors, so they don't get treated the same way. Survivors are possibly mentally damaged colonists that have survived an incredible ordeal on a planet that has a general distress beacon active and do not have their allegiances confirmed (they could be CLF), while PMCs are trusted allies of the USCM. There's no reason to have them arrested, searched, or detained, and to do so doesn't make sense ICly. PMCs aren't even of dubious loyalty; that's the Freelancers, they're of dubious loyalty and couldn't really care less whether or not the USCM dislikes them because they're not a solid organization, they're just a collective of people that accept money for mercenary work. PMCs are, however, almost guaranteed to be friendly to the USCM due to the already pre-existing friendly relationship.

    It's not really a badly thought event, it's just you not understanding lore. You were an overwhelming reason the event was derailed and possibly made the marines lose by spying on the PMCs for a weak reason, claim we were harboring the exact same aliens on the colony when Research Xenos were corrupted and not standard xenos, claim we stole the Alamo and sent it back up when Research is nowhere near the Alamo dropship consoles, and then hijack the Command Console to attempt to rally all of the marines to Research instead of just, you know, focusing on the xenos actively crash landing into the Almayer.

    You actively went out of your way to try to make Command hinder the PMCs in their objectives and promoted hate against the PMCs, started insulting the PMCs on Command comms, spied on us for basically no reason, became overly aggressive during the crash and tried killing off the PMCs instead of keeping yourself alive or securing the USS Almayer from the incoming invasion, went out of line as a commissioned officer by using the Command console to try to make marines fight the PMCs and friendly xenos... And then wonder to yourself why the admins would "run such a badly thought event" and say they "have no regard for the impact it may have on a round".

    You seriously can't blame admins for your own actions.



    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate_bickie View Post
    I was MP Chuck Bicar that round. I wasn't watching the PMCs due to sending a fax about the CO (more on that later).

    First of all, yes, the MPs were ordered by the CO to leave the PMCs alone. However the wiki states clearly that MPs cannot follow unlawful orders. Letting 5 heavily armed individuals wander around the Almayer unsupervised would be Neglect of Duty. Whilst in some rounds the MPs probably would have just done as the CO told them, the CO had created several issue that round with the Military Police Department.

    First, the CMP ordered the checkpoints manned and squad marine to be kept in the briefing area until after brief. This, of course, pissed of a lot of people. The CO decided he wanted the shutters open, but instead of just ordering them MPs to keep them open, used a somewhat passive aggressive announcement.

    After brief the CO then went into the Brig and pardoned every criminal regardless of crime (including major crimes MPs have to enforce) then berated the MPs for that and called marine law a threat to the mission.

    This pretty much set the stage for when the PMCs turned up, with a complete breakdown in trust between the MPs and CO, as well as a suspicion the CO would just pardon any crime (because they already had). The MPs wanted to disarm the PMCs (given their AP loaded PMCs with great armor) but the CO disagread.

    The MPs have an obligation to keep the Almayer safe, which the CO hadn't show any intention of doing, which is probably part of the reason his orders were treated as unlawful.

    It's worth noting the CMP asked me to fax High command about the PMCs ( I had already sent one fax about the COs excessive pardoning).

    Overall the CO didn't follow marine law and used their power to engage in LRP actions such as not being suspicious about the 5 heavily armed mercenaries with all access and berating the MPs for trying to keep an eye on them.

    Note on Validhunting: This isn't TG. Watching armed mercs as MPs isn't valid hunting, the CO refused to let them be disarmed so it's a reasonable course of action to make sure they keep their weapons holstered.
    The initial bit regarding the CO pardoning people isn't important to this report nor does it really even matter in general. If the CO pardoned people and you disagree with it, that doesn't suddenly give you or the MP team carte blanche to ignore each and every single order he gives out because you don't trust him. But regardless, here's why you're wrong on the whole 'pardon' shit.

    The MP team arrested specialists for having zipcuffs, which squad marines can receive from their squad leader. The Captain is allowed to pardon people for dumb shit like this and is in fact encouraged to keep a overly tyrannical MP in check this way. You're also making it seem like he pardoned more than these two specialists by saying he "pardoned every single criminal in the brig", as if you had more than just two specialists. Here's a screenshot of a moderator on Discord confirming you arrested somebody for zip cuffs.

    https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...57/unknown.png

    About the whole "heavily armed mercenary" thing:

    The PMC company is managed and owned entirely by W-Y (hence why they're called Corporate PMCs), and W-Y itself is explicitly friendly with the USCM. The USCM protects W-Y outer rim colonies in exchange for keeping them supplied with equipment. The MP team chasing down PMCs who aren't causing trouble and demanding they hand over their highly-expensive equipment that they aren't using unlawfully or even keeping unholstered is NOT something you should actively be doing. Annoying W-Y, the company that is supplying you with everything you have including the stunbaton and handcuffs you want to use on them, isn't something you or anybody on the MP team should've been doing.

    The PMCs get all access IDs because they're trusted allies of the USCM.

    This is why Captain Tom Dinkle explicitly told the MP team to fuck off; the captain understands lore and knew there's no logical reason to assume the PMCs would be trying to start anything when they're literally owned by W-Y, hell, he understood that it would make more sense ICly to try to be overly friendly and treat them incredibly well. If the higher-ups in Weyland-Yutani ordered PMCs to sabotage the fucking government, the company officials would be mass arrested and imprisoned, their stocks would rapidly decline, and the colonies they supply go out of business. W-Y would go bankrupt within weeks. You can be 100% confident PMCs will not try to hinder the USCM in any way. If they were Freelancers your reasoning would make more sense because Freelancers are unprofessional, unpredictable space-roaming bandits that'll do anything for the highest bidder, but they're not Freelancers, they're Corporate PMCs.

    Note that I don't acknowledge PMCs are often tasked with black ops that may be illegal in nature. That's because you shouldn't know this ICly. All you know is the PMCs are used lawfully, and to assume that this is one of these 'black ops', or that they're trying to do something illegal, is metagaming.

    I call it validhunting because that's more or less what it is. With what I have just stated in mind, assuming the PMCs are big bad villains is validhunting. It's just dumb and LRP. It's the equivalent of choosing one particular marine and then demanding he hand over his guns even though it's an active operation, because you deem him having guns as solid proof he's planning to lead a mutiny and kill Command staff.

    Dinkle was doing the opposite of what you accuse him to be doing. He's done nothing to break marine law, he's being HRP by understanding the PMCs are friendly, and he tries to stop the MP team from finding excuses to chase PMCs down and beat them with the stunbatons W-Y bought them.

    Tom Dinkle's orders aren't unlawful. You just don't know what you're talking about.
    Last edited by Kineem; 03-12-2019 at 01:21 AM.
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    I was barely involved in this round, late joining as synthetic as the crash was occurring, and ended up being killed by PMCs for reasons I imagine tie in with this report.

    The primary purpose of my posting here is to point out that as Squad leaders can purchase zip ties for their squad, they are not considered contraband for marines to possess and therefore not legal grounds for an arrest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imheretohelp View Post
    Ok I'm the captain of this round. I'm going to post a mouthful so get your butts in gear.


    https://i.gyazo.com/7ed7e7c9963d9175...43c05fad60.png


    Two fucking specs in brig, including the RPG spec. So I pardoned both of them because they were arrested for stupid shit like having zip cuffs (im not even kidding) because specs are important for my operation. This makes one MP buttmad for some reason but I don't actually care because so far I get the vibe that my MP team is full of petty tyrants and that is not something I tolerate.
    Delta spec was charged with Disrespecting a Superior Officer (called the CMP ''gay ass CMP''). Major crimes, you pardoned them and I don't think you even cared what their crimes was.

    I assume Alpha spec was the one who stole zipcuffs. From one persepctive, it obviously wasn't worth brigging them over that. But from another, it wasn't worth risking a brig time over zip cuffs.

    I suspect part of the reason they did this was because they knew you'd pardon specs (which is disappointingly true).

    Quote Originally Posted by Imheretohelp View Post
    WARNING BIG ASS PICTURE: This is what happened from my POV after I started recording my round:

    https://i.imgur.com/1M150an.jpg
    So alot is going on here that I wasn't a part of. My (timid) opinion is the MPs and several other members of the command staff were suspicious of the PMCs, there isn't much more I can add.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imheretohelp View Post
    This is the video of the ending of my round which is better captured as a video rather than lines of dialogue:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-sx...ature=youtu.be
    From what I saw you were killed by the PMCs, with their fancy guns. Not sure how that fight started (logs would need to be pulled) but if they had been disarmed then that wouldn't have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imheretohelp View Post
    Basically the two MP's (John'Longarm' Stevenson and Justin "Blackarrow' Smit) are the primary culprits of this shitfest. The CMP surprisingly kept trying to get the MP's to leave the PMC's alone but they wouldn't listen. Honestly those two MPs give me a meta-buddy vibe because they are both aggressively dumb and banded on one primary goal but that's far fetched. My MP team was full of retards but give the CMP a break apparently they just got unbanned for something and I can vouch that they didn't do anything wrong. A bunch of people wanted to valid-hunt the PMCs for some retarded reason and honestly I was too overwhelmed with a bunch of stuff to deal with this properly because we had to evacuate like 20 minutes after we landed and things were just very chaotic for me. Personally I think Marcellus and the two MPs went out of their way to do some gay shit that lowered the enjoyment of the round for the parties involved. Marcellus didn't do anything wrong per se but was still a net-negative. The two MPs repeatedly ignored orders from the Captain and CMP and should definitely be punished.
    I didn't interact with Longarm and Blackarrow much so I cant comment on them. Depending on what orders were given they may have been unlawful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imheretohelp View Post
    So yeah there's my take on this report.







    EDIT:


    They are PMCs, corporate. Here is both an IC and OOC justification to let PMCs have their guns.

    IC: They are corporate and thus allowing them more privileges than a usual guest makes you look better to the Company which in this universe is a very very good thing to have.

    OOC: PMCs are a rare role to acquire with fancy tools. If I was one, I wouldn't trust my fancy guns to some retard MPs because they will just lose/steal them. I am bound by the rules of the server to not just murderbone with my super-weapons so there is no problem with me being armed.

    Is this reasonable to you?
    Your choice to court favor with WY IC is fine, but MPs have a job to do, including keeping the ship safe, they have to be suspicious of third parties (the Marshall Province Office is it's own organization)

    OOC, PMCs have their own goals and may or may not be hostile, neutral or friendly. There also used a neutral skins for custom events. It doesn't matter wether ya trust the MPs, cos they still have to make sure you don't flamer then decap the CO (see above video).



    Quote Originally Posted by Imheretohelp View Post
    I made the passive-aggressive announcement to make marines less mad that there are shitter MPs making their lives hard and thus lower tensions so I can actually brief without grenades going off.
    The checkpoints were closed to non medics, the fact so many people were borderline mutinying over this is ridiculous.


    Quote Originally Posted by Imheretohelp View Post
    I can pardon whoever the fuck I want especially for the retarded charges of having zipcuffs. I can order you to not disarm PMCs and you have to do it. I don't care what you have to say on this matter.
    In game the CO is all powerful. But out of game you still have to justify your actions. As for being brigged over doing a really petty crime, well, it's still a crime and the player in question was willing to risk brig time over zip cuffs.

    The CO can order MPs not to disarm the PMCs. The CO can order MPs not to follow the PMCs. But by ordering both at the same time you make them both unlawful, as the MPs would be forced to let an armed third party free on the ship, which would be Neglect of Duty.




    Quote Originally Posted by Imheretohelp View Post
    The CMP didn't ask you to fax anyone, you kept whining that you wanted to fax so me and the CMP told you to just go. They are not just "heavily armed mercenaries" they are corporate professionals that the Company has a vested interest in. The USCM is basically a bitch to the Company so they can send fucking Corporate goons to your vessel whenever they feel like it. I don't see what is LRP about me giving the PMCs the privilege to be on the ship armed.
    The CMP asked me to send a second fax, after the first one, because I could/was willing to do paperwork. I don't agree on your position on lore but whatever.

    Them being armed isn't the issue, it's the fact that they either need to be unarmed or escorted at all times in order to ensure the safety of the ship.

    Final note: Be more polite. In game I have to be your bitch because I was a MP and you were a CO. We're on the forums now so keep in civil. You can do whatever you want IC as a CO but you still have to justify it OOCly here.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kineem View Post
    The initial bit regarding the CO pardoning people isn't important to this report nor does it really even matter in general. If the CO pardoned people and you disagree with it, that doesn't suddenly give you or the MP team carte blanche to ignore each and every single order he gives out because you don't trust him. But regardless, here's why you're wrong on the whole 'pardon' shit.
    Not saying it gives MPs carte blanche to disobey orders, only that the CO and MPs were on bad terms. Feel free to ignore/delete it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kineem View Post
    The MP team arrested specialists for having zipcuffs, which squad marines can receive from their squad leader. The Captain is allowed to pardon people for dumb shit like this and is in fact encouraged to keep a overly tyrannical MP in check this way. You're also making it seem like he pardoned more than these two specialists by saying he "pardoned every single criminal in the brig", as if you had more than just two specialists. Here's a screenshot of a moderator on Discord confirming you arrested somebody for zip cuffs.
    One spec (alpha) zipie cuffs (not by me)

    I arrested Delta spec for calling the CMP ''gay ass CMP''

    Again, I didn't arrest them. Not sure how many were in brig, pretty sure it was more than the specs, could be wrong.

    I sent a fax because the CO pardon'd multiple marines, fax also mentioned the fact he called marine law 'a threat to the operation'. Mostly I just wanted admins to the MPs they could still enforce marine law as the CO left the impression it was against his orders to carry out marines law.

    If someone could post the I sent fax that'd be helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kineem View Post
    About the whole "heavily armed mercenary" thing:

    The PMC company is managed and owned entirely by W-Y (hence why they're called Corporate PMCs), and W-Y itself is explicitly friendly with the USCM. The USCM protects W-Y outer rim colonies in exchange for keeping them supplied with equipment. The MP team chasing down PMCs who aren't causing trouble and demanding they hand over their highly-expensive equipment that they aren't using unlawfully or even keeping unholstered is NOT something you should actively be doing. Annoying W-Y, the company that is supplying you with everything you have including the stunbaton and handcuffs you want to use on them, isn't something you or anybody on the MP team should've been doing.

    The PMCs get all access IDs because they're trusted allies of the USCM.

    This is why Captain Tom Dinkle explicitly told the MP team to fuck off; the captain understands lore and knew there's no logical reason to assume the PMCs would be trying to start anything when they're literally owned by W-Y, hell, he understood that it would make more sense ICly to try to be overly friendly and treat them incredibly well. If the higher-ups in Weyland-Yutani ordered PMCs to sabotage the fucking government, the company officials would be mass arrested and imprisoned, their stocks would rapidly decline, and the colonies they supply go out of business. W-Y would go bankrupt within weeks. You can be 100% confident PMCs will not try to hinder the USCM in any way. If they were Freelancers your reasoning would make more sense because Freelancers are unprofessional, unpredictable space-roaming bandits that'll do anything for the highest bidder, but they're not Freelancers, they're Corporate PMCs.
    I mean, that implies that the admins designed this event with all that in mind. As a MP I'm just trying to keep marine law enforced and the ship safe. Galactic politics is a little beyond me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kineem View Post
    Note that I don't acknowledge PMCs are often tasked with black ops that may be illegal in nature. That's because you shouldn't know this ICly. All you know is the PMCs are used lawfully, and to assume that this is one of these 'black ops', or that they're trying to do something illegal, is metagaming.
    Meta gaming is a severe accusation. I don't know what the PMCs are doing, but as long as they are ship side as a MP I have a responsibility to ensure it doesn't negatively impact the crew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kineem View Post
    I call it validhunting because that's more or less what it is. With what I have just stated in mind, assuming the PMCs are big bad villains is validhunting. It's just dumb and LRP. It's the equivalent of choosing one particular marine and then demanding he hand over his guns even though it's an active operation, because you deem him having guns as solid proof he's planning to lead a mutiny and kill Command staff.
    Again, watching the PMCs isn't valid hunting. Keep en eye on the third party is common sense, especially when they have guns and all access. Even if you assume PMCs are friendly and loyal to the USCM they still need to be held in some suspicion.

    Hyperbole (PFC mutiny gun scenario) just devalues your argument. I would follow a marine around who I suspected was going to commit a mutiny (for whatever reason) and try and get them deployed/off the ship. That would be how I would handle PMCs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kineem View Post
    Dinkle was doing the opposite of what you accuse him to be doing. He's done nothing to break marine law, he's being HRP by understanding the PMCs are friendly, and he tries to stop the MP team from finding excuses to chase PMCs down and beat them with the stunbatons W-Y bought them.
    Again, hyperbole, the MPs were watching the PMCs until after the Alamo crash. Ordering them not to watch the PMCs is the issue I am commenting on. MPs are required to keep an eye on anything suspect or unusual.

    I can't tell you lore wise that PMCs entering the Alamyer is either normal or unusual. And I won't make up a scenario based on my head canon like you have. Especially not in a Player report.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kineem View Post
    Tom Dinkle's orders aren't unlawful. You just don't know what you're talking about.
    That's your opinion. Personally, I think you don't know what your talking about and are salty that the PMCs didn't get free reign to do...breed xenos? I don't even know.

  10. #10
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    I've written quite abit given I didn't interact with the PMCs much. If admins/mods want to delete some/all/parts of my posts that's fine.

    One last thing from the wiki, SoP:
    https://cm-ss13.com/wiki/Standard_Op...anding_Officer

    Third Party Personnel

    Marines are encouraged to peacefully recover any third party personnel found in an area of operations and offer them refuge within their ship. All personnel recovered from a combat zone must be searched on arrival and their weapons and unauthorized items secured within the Brig. They may keep their clothes and tools, provided they are not used for criminal purposes. They must also be provided with adequate medical care and sustenance. Civilian personnel recovered may be given a temporary junior position in a department should their qualifications allow for it as outlined in Employment procedure, but may not be conscripted into the USCM on-site.

    Third Party Military or Paramilitary forces may be allowed to keep their weaponry, provided their presence is beneficial to the operation.

    https://cm-ss13.com/wiki/Responders

    PMCs are allowed to keep weapons, but it dosen't state if they should be assumed friendly or not.

    The wiki only states that PMCs obey the CL, but can take suggestions from the captain. Since the PMCs were being used for a custom event and this refers to ERTS...I don't know if it counts.

    That's my peace.

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