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Thread: Drevenshekel - COC; 2 - Roleplay

  1. #1
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    Drevenshekel - COC; 2 - Roleplay

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Ahana

    Date of Incident
    November 16, 2022

    Your Character Name?
    Eleanor Tudor

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Drevenshekel

    Accused Character Name
    Wamakahana Windhealer

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    7:37 PM

    What rule(s) were broken:
    COC; 2 - Roleplay

    Description of the incident:
    Brief summary:
    I woke up alongside the CO as the XO round start. I asked if he was taking command, he stated yes, and I was completely okay with that. I then went around doing my assigned duties. I first loaded the OB, then went to req. The briefing was scheduled for 12:20, so I went to arrive. Only to find out - the CO had done a briefing ahead of time, and completed it before 12:19 without notifying anyone over comms. SOP states that all CIC personnel (including me) must attend briefing, but I wasn't even notified it was beginning, because I arrived at 12:19 when it concluded. Luckily, this NoD charge was not pressed on me, but I feel the CO should not be doing briefing ahead of time like this.

    Moving on, he notified me he was going to deploy. He did not ask if I was confident in handling CIC, nor if I was comfortable. I was stuck with a staff officer who seemed like he was drunk OOCly, and a newer SO who was trying to do their job. The catch is - while I can handle CIC alone, he was forbidding me to.

    Wamakahana Windhealer refused to give ANY autonomy to CIC. He would use multicomms to give orders to all the squads - but then we couldn't react if he included bravo in there as well (who was on FOB duty). He also restricted CIC from using OBs except under his direct order. I repeatedly asked, alongside other CIC personnel, to get autonomy so I could do things other than spam TacMaps (which he told me was one of the things I could do to be useful, other than spamming his orders over and over again).

    Eventually, I had enough because I literally could not do my job and I got lost at what to even do in this situation. I asked him to return shipside because he decided to retroactively deploy a SO (who was barely functioning, as-sis) without asking me. I was left alone with another staff officer, trying to completely rectify whatever orders he was spewing, so I told him he needed to come shipside because I didn't feel comfortable with him deploying.

    Because of this, he turned entirely hostile towards me, using passive-aggressive command announcements, insulting me, telling me to cryo, etc. Examples:

    ---

    Capt Eleanor Tudor [Command (XO)] says, "I do not wish to lead anymore." (I wasn't even leading)
    Capt Eleanor Tudor [Command (XO)] says, "Please take over CIC, Major." (What I wasn't allowed to command)

    Command Announcement (MADE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT IN RESPONSE)

    It appears our XO wants to have a cry that I wont let them command the operation, and are going to cryo in protest. I must return shipside then. LT Caldwell is in charge of our ground forces. For now, keep bleeding them out at filt, push in when you've killed some T3s

    Signed by,
    Major Wamakahana Windhealer

    Capt Eleanor Tudor [Command (XO)] says, "CO. I don't feel comfortable with this."
    Maj Wamakahana Windhealer [Command (CO)] says, "Shut it and go to cryo then"
    Maj Wamakahana Windhealer [Command (CO)] says, "So I can get a better XO"
    Capt Eleanor Tudor [Command (XO)] says, "I am trying to develop my skills and you're being needlessly aggressive."
    Maj Wamakahana Windhealer [Command (CO)] says, "I said shut it and go to cryo, the sooner I can get a new XO the better"
    Maj Wamakahana Windhealer [Command (CO)] says, "If you want to stay in CIC and do your job, do that without all the sooking"

    ---

    I think it took him ~20 minutes to get to CIC. I'm 99% certain he continued to push and be on the front lines even though I asked him to return to CIC.

    --

    Command Announcement (Kept trying to force me to cryo, for some reason.)

    Xendigos are reported in ETA labs. follow delta SL and slaughter them, our XO has gone to cryo and im still making way to CIC, so dont expect any command support for a few minutes atleast

    Signed by,
    Major Wamakahana Windhealer

    2ndLt Raymond Finlay [Command (SO)] asks, "Major, I just arrived in CIC. Am I clear on the fact us lesser officers may not issue field orders?"
    2ndLt Andrii 'Necromant' Melnyk [Command (SO)] says, "Unforunately, you are."
    2ndLt Andrii 'Necromant' Melnyk [Command (SO)] says, "The CO is strictly against us giving orders."
    Capt Eleanor Tudor [Command (XO)] says, "We are."

    --

    At this point, IC consequences start to break out as heads of staff pretty much unanimously agree to begin a mutiny. I do not know what happens after I tell them to spread the word, but I do know the CO ends up dead. I don't know if this was escalated or not, but the actions of the CO leading up to this I don't think are acceptable.

    I wish to have him investigated for the following things:

    Deployment Regulations:
    Your XO especially must be able to run the CIC without you. Do not deploy if your XO does not wish to take over. - I wasn't told of the conditions CIC was going to be placed under, nor did he even give any autonomy to CIC. He took forever to come back up and was hostile towards me because I asked him to do so.

    Behavior:
    All Commanding Officers are high-ranking, college-educated, competent, senior military officers. You should not act like a casual happy-go-lucky Private, an idiot, or otherwise act incompetently. - He was doing LRP actions such as calling squads 'tribes' (?) and I don't think it necessarily counts as LRP, but it's still odd to refer to XX-121 (xenomorphs) as 'xendigos.' I also belive how he was handling CIC was unwarranted and basically nullified its purpose - is it not supposed to be leading the operation if the CO is deployed?

    --

    I don't know why he demanded he deploy and have sole authority over CIC, OBs, and every other minute detail, but I think this is unbecoming conduct of a commanding officer.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    Do you understand that staff make the final decision in the resolution of this report?
    Yes
    Last edited by ito726; 11-17-2022 at 02:22 AM. Reason: Corrected ckey

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    This isn't really worth a reply but this report is funny so I guess i'll reply to the accusations

    1. I've been saying "xendigo" and "tribes" as part of my characters lingo for like 4 years, im not changing from it, cope and seethe.

    2. Sorry for doing briefing at 12:19 instead of 12:20. I guess I saw everyone was ready to go in hanger and we got organised a minute quicker than expected, and the plan had already been announced 3 times anyway so I just got it out of the way.

    3. Im the CO, im in command of the operation. Not you. If you wanted to organise a flank or something else, you can run it by me, then I would have been like "thats a good/bad idea" and then organised it, but I dont want CIC giving out random orders when im leading my forces, which leads to confusion.

    4. You forced me to go shipside solely so you could organise a mutiny, which is INCREDIBLY bad faith acting and kind of abuse of the WL guidelines to try ruining my round experience. I didn't take 20 minutes to get shipside, when you called me back to the ship, I headed to LZ, waited for the Alamo and returned shipside. Then you left CIC against orders to try doing a mutiny which staff didn't authorize, which is a breach of the OOC guidelines set for officers who must follow their orders.

    5. Yes I always call the OB's on my rounds, because OB's can be hugely effective and I want to control how they get fired. I have always been the one calling OB's when I play CO, its how i run things, sorry if you don't like that.

    6. Yes I made some announcements calling you out for your behaviour, this was after you spent the whole first half of the round complaining on comms that I "wasn't giving you autonomy" and overall being a mediocre XO. You didn't reload the OB after firing it, which resulted in our 2nd OB being delayed by several minutes, you took your sweet time even dialing in coordinates, you were being passive aggressive and even the SL's were getting annoyed at you.


    Your job as XO when I play CO is to run shipside, makesure the departments are all healthy, makesure OB's are loaded, dialed and fired on my order, and to reinforce my own orders with announcements/tacmaps or do callouts on comms incase I miss them. Were not "both in charge", im in charge, im the CO, I have not had this issue with any other XO before and I don't know why it was so hard for you to grasp.
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  3. #3
    Junior Member nodnodnod's Avatar
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    Hi. I was a PFC in this round, and the CO being on the front with us was helpful and increased cohesion significantly. I fought beside the CO for a decent chunk of him being there.

    A quick recount of the groundside experience:

    As far as I could tell, being an Alpha Tribe, was that we were generally kept updated and aware of what to do and where to go from the CO, while the CIC was doing a mediocre job of giving updates or callouts of locations of hostiles or intense combat, or wounded or dead marines that could be recovered, especially in the winding down phase of the operation, though I suspect this may be due to the apparently unauthorized mutiny orchestrated by the XO (and as a segue to semi-related bits, wasn't this the same behavior Crimson ate a CMP ban for? Malicious Compliance and generally breaking the spirit of the rules and ML?)

    Regardless, the CO was reported dead shipside and the marines were generally displeased about that and were coming shipside, thinking the XO had couped the CO. I don't know if that's what happened, but nevertheless, the stage was set for a shitshow on the Almayer because of the XO's actions directly. This was thankfully averted by a round end.

    From the groundside PFC perspective, CO was doing a fine job. If the CIC being kept on a tight leash and the CO being strict is grounds for mutinies from the XO of all people, I dunno what to say, other than you can fax provost if you have issues, and not actively undermine by rallying all the officers to mutiny.

    Onto the report itself:

    I've noticed this sort of behavior from Crimson in general, and I echo Dreven's sentiment about points 3, 4, and 5... and, really, a report on the CO starting his briefing one minute early is the most inane and petty thing I think I've ever seen. By his own admission, Crimson said he can run the CIC himself, so his argument that he was never asked if he could is moot, as it's not unreasonable to trust an XO and two SOs to quite literally do their job, and the CO is Native American and incorporates terminology ad-hoc'd into being fitting for the operation. It's amusing at worst.
    Nadezhda Portnova - Enlisted
    Kira Fairbanks - Officer/CL
    NOD - Xenomorph

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    I was the CE that round. i was ordered to help set up fob by the CO and gladly did so, so as I was sitting around at fob once I was done my duties, i had plenty of time to read command chat. the amount of times the CO called for an OB and nothing happened was comical, I feel like that was ONE of the reasons why he wanted to go shipside.

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    I was a smartgunner that stuck close to Windhealer and helped organize fallbacks/pushes with him during this round

    Gotta say, this report is pretty funny. The CO being on the front did help with cohesion as much as it possibly could have, he was giving orders out like a champ and running the operation (as a groundside CO should). Generally keeping the operation going. You trying (and succeeding) to get the CO to come shipside and leave the ground in the hands of the SLs by using whitelist rules and possibly server rules designed to keep XO a fun position was at best a shitty move, and at worst softgriefing.

    Being up there with him was fun as fuck and you dragging him up kinda put a negative tone on the gameplay I had for the rest of the round.

    As for the briefing bit, I thiiiiiiiink that I remember hearing the CO excuse CIC staff from the brief..? Not too certain, something something pull logs, but if that's true then it is kind of an icky thing to do. I can think of a few CMP players who would jump on the opportunity to arrest an XO on a technicality like that.

    Cough. Cough.

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    To continue on this because there either isn't an edit function or I'm a smoothbrain who can't find it,

    No, the CO did not take 20 minutes to get from the ground to the CIC. I remember him leaving pretty urgently after he said your calls came through.
    Unless you were calling 20 minutes prior, which I highly doubt.

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    Howdy there,

    I have given the following information to the whitelist council, and I was recommended to also post this information here:

    In regards to telling Ahana that I would have had HC issue an arrest for Dreven for NoD (after the round had ended), I had said that because I had incomplete information at the time and could not acquire more within a reasonable amount of time. I had made the call not to delay the round for a potentially very long investigation. I also did not get to speak with Dreven for his side of the story during that time.

    Essentially I had (with the information given to me at the time) believed that Dreven micromanaging the XO and CIC remotely and supposedly forbidding them from doing anything without his express permission constituted a failure to perform his duties, specifically entrusting CIC to run the ship in his absence.

    Now that I have the better picture, I don't believe Ahana had much intention of cooperating with the CO at all. It seems to me that she was actively seeking to rebel/start an unsanctioned mutiny when she should have brought her misgivings to HC for them to decide upon. All that said, I must repeat that I did not have time to do a complete investigation and I am not 100% sure that either party is in the wrong here.
    Last edited by Podrick Equus; 11-18-2022 at 12:37 AM. Reason: typo

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Podrick Equus View Post
    Howdy there,

    I have given the following information to the whitelist council, and I was recommended to also post this information here:

    In regards to telling Ahana that I would have had HC issue an arrest for Dreven for NoD (after the round had ended), I had said that because I had incomplete information at the time and could not acquire more within a reasonable amount of time. I had made the call not to delay the round for a potentially very long investigation. I also did not get to speak with Dreven for his side of the story during that time.

    Essentially I had (with the information given to me at the time) believed that Dreven micromanaging the XO and CIC remotely and supposedly forbidding them from doing anything without his express permission constituted a failure to perform his duties, specifically entrusting CIC to run the ship in his absence.

    Now that I have the better picture, I don't believe Ahana had much intention of cooperating with the CO at all. It seems to me that she was actively seeking to rebel/start an unsanctioned mutiny when she should have brought her misgivings to HC for them to decide upon. All that said, I must repeat that I did not have time to do a complete investigation and I am not 100% sure that either party is in the wrong here.
    I can find it in the recording somewhere, but Im pretty sure I explicitly said CIC's job was to manage the ship. But im the CO and Im in charge of ground operations. I even spent the time drawing up a nice map plan (plugging this cos i paid joey for the art and its cool : https://gyazo.com/3447e9d8d5e1641ab3fa10e39a7e9104 ). Calling OB's is my right as CO and I always exercise it, no ones had an issue with it in the past and if they did I woulden't care. If anything by me deploying I gave the XO more work to do, as instead of being a glorified SO they had the whole of shipside departments to keep tabs on, aswell be in charge of the overwatch crew and use the announcer, seeing that they were mediocre at even that their was absolutely no way I was going to "grant autonomy" to the XO to confuse marines by giving them random orders for flanks. If the XO had come up to me at roundstart and asked if they coulda had more say in the operations plans then we coulda discussed it and I woulda given more leeway, but they expressed no interest in that, were fine with me deploying, and then proceeded to bug me on comms the whole round BEFORE I started making "passive aggressive" announcements in retaliation, which I feel was a perfectly valid IC response given that my marines were dying by the score, while they were failing to load the OB and spending more time crying on comms about not being in charge than doing their job.

    Also nah I didn't explicitly tell CIC that they were allowed to be absent from briefing, yes I did hold it 1 minute early, I really don't think thats the end of the world though, I honestly wouldn't have noticed or cared if any of them showed up, I had my plan announced, drawn up, and already communicated it to the squads over comms personally (did all of this while getting geared up and ready before 12:19!!!), my briefings are basically just a recap and to hype marines up a bit.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    Im also not gonna bother making an extra report. But should this be found to be in my favour I would like to request an official investigation into Crimson abusing the WL rules to get me undeployed, breaking the OOC rules that officers are held to (they must follow orders), by explicitly leaving CIC when ordered not to and go organise some unapproved mutiny. At the very least I think this whole report is a waste of staff and council time. I don't believe that bad faith actors should be allowed to mess around in high privilege roles like XO, taking the slot from someone who actually wants to play command seriously and grind for their CO application.

    Also some dude like, grief OD'd me at the very end of the round, If crimson was behind that I would expect a full job ban from XO.
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  10. #10
    Developer & CO Senator (Major General) naut's Avatar
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    The Commanding Officer, as the ranking officer onboard the Almayer, has the authority and right to assume full and total control over any of their subordinate officers as per the Chain of Command. The Executive Officer is second in command. They are subordinate to the CO and ultimately should obey any and every overruling order given by their superior officer and can't go against their wishes. It's how the real military does it, it's how CM does it too.


    XOs in practice deal with this kind of scenario all the time where the CO assumes command and leads the operation on their own plan. What an XO should do here is to follow along and support the CO in their leading by using overwatch and announcements to give auxiliary information such as locations of enemies or downed Marines, or to direct Marines to follow the established plan.


    The CO's job is to command, it's in their name. They are not always going to give their subordinate officer full authority over how to run the show simply out of being polite. They do it because they either would like help, because they are busy, or because they want to test you. If they don't feel like giving you operational control, take the backseat and support what they do. You'll go far that way.


    In regard to the CO's deployment, CO deployment regulations state you must make sure the XO must be able to handle CIC, but this applies at the moment they deploy. You agreed to the CO deploying according to the logs, and when you were going to cryo after the altercation, the CO returned shipside within 10 minutes, not the 20 that was mentioned in the report. The CO did the procedures correctly in this case and we see no fault on their end.



    This report is denied. No breaches of CO conduct were found, and no punitive action will be issued.

    The matter of CO deployment recall (returning to the ship) and how the WL rules may pertain to it is being discussed, but formal investigation into the reporter's in-round behavior is outside the purview of the Council.
    Major General / Colonel Samantha 'Sammy' Maverick
    Colonel Chris 'Topher' Lawson
    Synthetic Tara

    CO Senator (as of 3-19-21)
    ̶D̶e̶v̶e̶l̶o̶p̶e̶r̶ Maintainer (as of of 3-23-21)

    I'm just someone trying her hardest to not get everyone horribly killed.

    im an artist too! see my works at my art dump below
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