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Thread: MISTFRAG, suprisedbaby - 3, 11; Malicious Compliance

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    MISTFRAG, suprisedbaby - 3, 11; Malicious Compliance

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Ahana

    Date of Incident
    November 17, 2022

    Your Character Name?
    Eleanor Tudor

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    MISTFRAG, suprisedbaby

    Accused Character Name
    Marcela De Silva, Jeramiah 'Butcher' Jenkins

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    ~11:20 PM

    What rule(s) were broken:
    3, 11; Malicious Compliance

    Description of the incident:
    It was pretty early in the round.

    Someone was injured on the dropship, probably stabbed as they were bleeding. As such, I went to go treat them.

    Afterward, I went to attend the briefing the XO was giving.

    During the briefing, the sniper specialist cloaked and hid on the crane (presumably before the XO had arrived). The sniper specialist began choking a staff officer, so I tried to shove him. I alt-clicked the tile and started disarming the specialist. I believe I accidentally shoved the Captain a single time because my mouse clicked on that finicky alt-tile menu. Obviously, ICly, it looks like I shoved the Captain that one time, however, I'm 100% a single disarm is not worth 15 minutes in the brig.

    I went on to explain to the XO, that I was trying to shove the specialist who uncloaked on the crane for choking the SO and me - plus taking my gear I dropped when he grabbed me - who then proceeded to shove me in a fit with a crowd of marines for no reason as his staff officer begins stabbing and attacking the specialist in front of him without batting an eye, and proceeding to tell MPs to arrest me for assault. Obviously, I thought that was dumb so I ran back to medical, where I ate a resisting arrest charge added on by Jeramiah 'Butcher' Jenkins, all over shoving the XO on accident.

    After explaining this to the MP, they still blindsightedly went through with the arrest, even though they were a witness to the whole situation, and didn't try to stop the SO from stabbing the specialist, or intervene when the specialist was trying to choke them out/choke me out.

    An officer-ordered arrest just means that MPs must arrest that person, but not necessarily charge the individual, which is why I have included him in a report amongst another reason:

    Instead of processing me once we got to the brig, the MP tried to use me as a training dummy (?), lugging me around on his back trying to use me as a teaching tool (once again I am the CMO, a head of staff who has better places to be) for the cadet.

    I believe XO Marcela De Silva breached rule 11 by ordering an arrest on a technicality of someone non-disruptive and acting in good faith, myself, as I was trying to help the staff officer being choked while the MP blindly stared into oblivion, and tried to stop the specialist from assaulting me, all while I explained the situation to the XO with him recognizing what I stated on comms later on, yet ignoring what happened.

    I believe MP Jeramiah 'Butcher' Jenkins breached rule 11 the same way, by carrying out the arrest, as well as trying to extend my processing time by using as a training tool, before getting told to stop.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    Logs will have to be drawn, as mine do not go back far enough.

    Do you understand that staff make the final decision in the resolution of this report?
    Yes
    Last edited by ScarletReign; 11-18-2022 at 03:25 PM. Reason: Added ckeys

  2. #2
    Member SuprisedBaby_'s Avatar
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    Hello, I am the MP from this report. I believe this is rather a rich report, as well as a comedic one. My reasoning for trying to use Ahana as a training dummy is from a thought process that I apply to most things that I do in real life as well as in game, which I even expressed in game, and have done in the past. It's quite simply that experience is the best teacher, and seeing a golden opportunity to help this cadet learn how to process a prisoner I wanted to take it (Which I later did using myself, and only took a minute or two). I like teaching new players and helping them, which is another reason I play MP as I see my fair share of Baldy McBald face PVT wandering around cryo. If I truly wanted to extend the time that the CMO was in brig I would have locked them in a chair for 9 minutes while investigating the situation, but as I had more then enough info and evidence to charge the CMO and I wanted to teach the cadet how to process. As for the MP staring into oblivion part I had alt-tabbed during briefing to look at something else and when I tabbed back in there was an arrest order on the CMO, an SO was stabbing the sniper, and probably 2 or 3 marines also shoving the sniper. So I did the logical thing and as I was only one MP decided to go up COC in terms of orders and carried out the XOs arrest order. While carrying out this arrest order, instead of complying so that I could investigate what happened, the CMO decided to move while I was trying to cuff them, shove me, and then run away. As a former MP player I would have hoped that you would realize that shoving someone during an arrest, even once, is still assault. The arrest that I made on the CMO was not only for shoving the XO but also for shoving me during my arrest. The only reason that you were appealed out of assault was because the CO was confused, which I later clarified with him after the round. I would also like to note that you attempted to get the XO arrested immediately for prevar and assault, which I did not carry out because prevar would not be applicable during this situation, and you never responded to me on comms for evidence of the assault charges, despite asking about 3 times. As an MP I would rather not arrest vital command members (IE XO or CO) mid-op without having a good enough reason/evidence, and as your charges did not fit I did not deem and you had not provided evidence asides from saying the charges and threatening to fax for my arrest I did not carry it out.

    As for the XOs breaching rule 11 with their order, I later clarified in the round as to why they ordered the arrest to see if the charge of prevar would in-fact fit. The XO stated that they ordered the arrest believing that the CMO was shoving them and not the sniper underneath them, which is understandable considering they were both standing on the same tile, and the sniper was invisible. This disqualifies the arrest order because of the "intentional" part of the prevar charge, which in your haste you appear to have overlooked. The XO did not intentionally order your arrest knowing that the charges were false, instead they ordered your arrest thinking you were shoving them the entire time, and not the sniper.

    All in all this report seems to me like it's made out of spite, as someone with your hours of MP should know why I acted the way I did.
    K'wii Clans strongest gear recoverer.

  3. #3
    Senior Moderator Warfan1815's Avatar
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    Pulling logs.
    "Come on chaps! Why just dust off the OB flames it'll create. Nothing the USCM can't handle!"
    Currently playing as a sublimely gentlemanly British chap: Warris 'Haig' Fernsby

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    My reasoning for trying to use Ahana as a training dummy is from a thought process that I apply to most things that I do in real life as well as in game, which I even expressed in game, and have done in the past. It's quite simply that experience is the best teacher, and seeing a golden opportunity to help this cadet learn how to process a prisoner I wanted to take it (Which I later did using myself, and only took a minute or two).
    You should be helping for a training dummy, using yourself, or at the very least do it after processing the prisoner with their consent.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    As for the MP staring into oblivion part I had alt-tabbed during briefing to look at something else and when I tabbed back in there was an arrest order on the CMO, an SO was stabbing the sniper, and probably 2 or 3 marines also shoving the sniper.
    You noticed the sniper, so why not question it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    So I did the logical thing and as I was only one MP decided to go up COC in terms of orders and carried out the XOs arrest order. While carrying out this arrest order, instead of complying so that I could investigate what happened, the CMO decided to move while I was trying to cuff them, shove me, and then run away.
    I pushed you one time and went back to medbay.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    The arrest that I made on the CMO was not only for shoving the XO but also for shoving me during my arrest.
    These are two separate incidents, and both qualify as hooliganism. Shoving someone one time does not net an assault sentence, which is fifteen minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    The only reason that you were appealed out of assault was because the CO was confused, which I later clarified with him after the round.
    The reason I got appealed was because you gave me a 25 minute sentence for accidentally shoving the XO while somebody was trying to choke somebody out and I decided I had more important things to do and walked away from the scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    I would also like to note that you attempted to get the XO arrested immediately for prevar and assault, which I did not carry out because prevar would not be applicable during this situation, and you never responded to me on comms for evidence of the assault charges, despite asking about 3 times.
    I explained the situation to him in person, and on command comms, which you were present for both. I called for prevarication in person, and with a fax, because disarming him one time on accident trying to stop a specialist from choking out officers and eating a 15 minute charge automatically is a mind-altering overblow of stupidity, especially after he saw the specialist and I explained I was trying to shove the specialist.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    As an MP I would rather not arrest vital command members (IE XO or CO) mid-op without having a good enough reason/evidence, and as your charges did not fit I did not deem and you had not provided evidence asides from saying the charges and threatening to fax for my arrest I did not carry it out.
    1 - I was appealed, and found innocent of all charges.
    2 - I explained the situation to him prior to you carrying out the arrest.
    3 - You were there for the entirety of the appeal, hearing my side and how I was innocent.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    As for the XOs breaching rule 11 with their order, I later clarified in the round as to why they ordered the arrest to see if the charge of prevar would in-fact fit. The XO stated that they ordered the arrest believing that the CMO was shoving them and not the sniper underneath them, which is understandable considering they were both standing on the same tile, and the sniper was invisible. This disqualifies the arrest order because of the "intentional" part of the prevar charge, which in your haste you appear to have overlooked. The XO did not intentionally order your arrest knowing that the charges were false, instead they ordered your arrest thinking you were shoving them the entire time, and not the sniper.
    I kept going after the sniper, even after the XO had stepped off the tile. You then refused to carry out an arrest about him assaulting me for pushing me down repeatedly with a crowd of marines standing around me, which is worse than the singular push I did to him on accident. I made this extra clear in-game.


    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    All in all this report seems to me like it's made out of spite, as someone with your hours of MP should know why I acted the way I did.
    It's not out of spite, and I don't understand the way you acted, especially since apparently you were refusing to detain the SO who was trying to now stab critically (?) the specialist in front of you, even when told about it (and apparently refusing), as well as the fact you arrested me for something that the captain later overblew and repeated, intentionally, against me.

  5. #5
    Member SuprisedBaby_'s Avatar
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    I dont really feel like quoting to any of these so I'll respond in order

    Opportunity for training versus waiting for an admin.

    I noticed the sniper after the order for your arrest was given, and given that I was alt-tabbed I was taking time to assess the situation before immediately arresting people.

    Pushing someone once is still assault, and you continued to flee from me when I attempted to arrest you in medbay.

    Pushing someone is still assault, if a police officer told me I was being arrested and I shoved them I would still be arrested for the prior crime and the crime of assault, it being hooliganism makes no sense.

    I gave you the 25 minute sentence for pushing me while I was trying to arrest you

    The XO was trying to give brief at the time, so if you were explaining it to her during brief I doubt they were able to hear it, especially with the commotion, your on comms explanation most certainly happened post-arrest, and I asked the XO on MP comms why they gave the order to arrest you and they stated they thought you were shoving them.

    Completely ignoring the definition of prevar particularly the "To intentionally order the arrest of a person" part.

    As previously state I was alt-tabbed and came back to assess the situation, I am not a super computer and can only process info as fast as I can read, which at midnight is fairly slow. I chose the path of least resistance and followed the highest ranking OOA

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...7224/image.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9892/image.png I forgot about the SO after your arrest because I was tied up in brig with your whole thing and seeing as how the sniper wasn't in my ear trying to get them arrested nobody reminded me.
    K'wii Clans strongest gear recoverer.

  6. #6
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    So, unfortunately I couldn't reply as quickly as I wanted due to this coming in while I was at work. However, I've got the free time now to take a look at this report, so let's get at it.

    This specific report is over rule 3 and rule 11: for our purposes, I feel the need to define both so we're all armed with the proper knowledge to understand the situation at hand.

    Rule 3 is our rule on community expectations, this is given an, at best, vague definition of don't be a dick while pointing towards rule 11. So, let's move onto rule 11.

    Rule 11 is our OOC rules covering malicious compliance. Let us dig into what it says here, more in-depth, because this is the main rule this player report has been filed under.

    - Malicious Compliance with IC Military Law to impose excessive punishments, make an arrest on a technicality of someone non-disruptive and acting in good faith, or causing intentional delays in processing, release or appeals will fall under rule 3, Community Expectations and are actionable.

    - Malicious Compliance does not apply in any case where IC or OOC provocation is present. (For example, following and taunting/threatening a player, engaging in mundane, but disruptive actions and continuing when asked or told to stop, etc)

    These are the verbatim rules that are documented when you research them in the wiki. It's rule 11, that also covers surprisedbaby

    - Military Police may ignore Minor Crimes unless ordered to enforce them, but they may not ignore Major or Capital Crimes.

    This is what it states briefly on ordered enforcement of ML, for our case, this applies towards the arrest of the CMO for breaking ML. Surprisedbaby can't be filed for malicious compliance, because beneath the same rule he's been reported for, he couldn't have ignored my call to arrest you!

    Now, let's get into what qualifies as malicious compliance and how it exactly applies to our case

    Let's review these charges, as the major example for malicious compliance is an intentional stacking in charges in order to hand out excessive charges against someone non-disruptive.

    The charges applied by surprisedbaby were assault and resisting arrest. Assault was the original charge I had you ordered for arrest for as the XO, however, that did not end up being the reason it was applied.

    Assault was applied due to you pushing over the arresting officer, and resisting arrest was applied due to attempting to run away from surprisedbaby and push him over.

    Assault, as I'm sure you know being a former CMP main, prior to your jban, is a major crime - Under rule 11, our OOC rulings on Marine Law, surprisedbaby could not have ignored the crime you committed in front of him or else he could have been banned himself.

    It clarifies, within the exact ruling, about being non disruptive. You fail to satisfy this end of malicious compliance by having pushed me over while I was giving briefing, this delayed briefing by 3 minutes - Delaying the round for myself, the Xeno players, and every marine player. By pushing me over, I had to retype my entire briefing message. This qualifies as disruptive. Having checked with COs, as well, it's been enlightened upon myself any CO could have BE'd you for the exact offense. To add onto that, this exact situation was covered in Solidfury's report.

    Now, moving on.

    Malicious Compliance does not apply in any case where IC or OOC provocation is present. (For example, following and taunting/threatening a player, engaging in mundane, but disruptive actions and continuing when asked or told to stop, etc)

    This here would come into play during the part of the arrest wherein you resisted the arrest that I had ordered out, and in the process, assaulted surprisedbaby. This gives us provocation, rendering malicious compliance void.

    So that leaves Surprisedbaby out of the situation and now covers myself. I specifically ordered your arrest since you had delayed the briefing. I would've been less concerned about it had this been done by someone like a private, but this was a CMO, a full first Lieutenant walking over and shoving their Captain.

    Now, by your own words, since we're both women and can read the rules - Higher expectations are applied the higher a rank or importance a role holds. As a CMO, you qualify for falling under heavy scrutiny due to being an officer and department head, as well as being in line for ACO.

    If you were concerned about the sniper, there were multiple other courses of action you could've taken besides interrupting briefing. Seeing as there was MPs present, you could've discreetly let them know about the sniper, or have told myself. Instead of using your words, you decided to soft grief the entire round.

    I felt, with that in mind, it was perfectly reasonable to have you arrested. All this player report seems to be doing is fishing.
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    Once again, I fail to see how shoving someone one time is assault. My shoving of you was not even intentional, and I'm 99% certain the staff officer was the one who shoved you over.

    Also, the arrest of the major crime not being bannable for malicious compliance is completely irrelevant, because I got job banned for arresting someone over a major crime.

    You've also failed to look at the context. There was a staff officer actively being choked out by a specialist underneath you. I was only attempting to shove him, which I made clear. The MP right next to us didn't respond to calls for help, or even investigate until you called for my arrest.

    I wasn't 'soft griefing' anyone. I was trying to stop a fellow officer of the ship from getting choked out while the MP was mind-bogglingly staring into the void while you were standing on the subordinate who was doing such.

  8. #8
    Member SuprisedBaby_'s Avatar
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    Intentional or not you still shoved me while I was performing an OOA, which is by definition, assault.

    Again like I mentioned the previous 5 times, I was alt-tabbed at briefing. I don't get how you keep ignoring that fact. You're expecting everyone who plays MP to be a complete robot and give 100% of their undivided attention to looking for broken laws.
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  9. #9
    Senior Moderator Warfan1815's Avatar
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    Post Logs

    KEY:
    May 'Chaos' Blyant (Specialist)
    suprisedbaby (as Jeramiah 'Butcher' Jenkins the MP)
    mistfrag (as Marcela De Silva the XO)
    ahana (as Eleanor Tudor the CMO)
    Danny Sugar (SO)
    Other Marines

    *Excuse the sometimes inconsistent colouring, I am rusty at log pulling*

    Hangar Incident
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    'Butcher' arrests the CMO

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    'Butcher' argues with the CMO

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    'Butcher' teaches a cadet using the CMO

    Spoiler Spoiler:
    "Come on chaps! Why just dust off the OB flames it'll create. Nothing the USCM can't handle!"
    Currently playing as a sublimely gentlemanly British chap: Warris 'Haig' Fernsby

  10. #10
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    Now that logs are available from what I wasn't able to save:

    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    As for the MP staring into oblivion part I had alt-tabbed during briefing to look at something else and when I tabbed back in there was an arrest order on the CMO, an SO was stabbing the sniper, and probably 2 or 3 marines also shoving the sniper. So I did the logical thing and as I was only one MP decided to go up COC in terms of orders and carried out the XOs arrest order.
    This is blatant self-admission of you ignoring the sniper getting stabbed, and gunning straight for my arrest for accidentally shoving the XO once, even though the staff officer is actively calling for you to get involved - not to mention you taking notice to an active stabbing and prioritizing arresting someone over an accidental shoving as they were explaining it to the XO, doing so in front of you.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Quote Originally Posted by SuprisedBaby_ View Post
    While carrying out this arrest order, instead of complying so that I could investigate what happened, the CMO decided to move while I was trying to cuff them, shove me, and then run away.
    Logs dictate you are clearly aware things going on, are not alt-tabbing anymore, and are at the scene when I am explaining what happened to the XO.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Not only this, the SO told you too, and you still went through with the arrest.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    It may have been officer-ordered - but it should have been refuted on the grounds that it would be illegal confinement (apprehending someone for no legitimate reason or cause) because accidentally disarming someone once on accident while trying to stop a specialist from choking someone out is not assault, especially when it's made apparent to all parties involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misty View Post
    The charges applied by surprisedbaby were assault and resisting arrest. Assault was the original charge I had you ordered for arrest for as the XO, however, that did not end up being the reason it was applied.

    Assault was applied due to you pushing over the arresting officer, and resisting arrest was applied due to attempting to run away from surprisedbaby and push him over.
    The self-defense clause covers me in this scenario. Considering he overheard me explaining what happened, and the SO told him what happened, he had more than enough reasoning to refute the officer-ordered arrest because the charges were invalid. He whipped out a flash (opening escalation in self-defense to disarms), which I promptly knocked out of his hand and walked away. He was never knocked down, nor disarmed more than once. The only difference is that this was intentional, however his charges are irrelevant still when it comes to what you ordered the arrest over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misty View Post
    This here would come into play during the part of the arrest wherein you resisted the arrest that I had ordered out, and in the process, assaulted surprisedbaby. This gives us provocation, rendering malicious compliance void.
    The actions I took after you ordered an arrest, acknowledging that the single disarm was not intended for you and I was trying to protect your lieutenant are irrelevant. Even after I explained it to you and you were told directly by someone else even acknowledging it, you still pressed it.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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