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Thread: MISTFRAG - Rule 10, CO-COC-7

  1. #1
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    MISTFRAG - Rule 10, CO-COC-7

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Bilary

    Date of Incident
    December 4, 2022

    Your Character Name?
    Richard Kellogg

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    MISTFRAG

    Accused Character Name
    Marcela De Silva

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    04:30

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 10, CO-COC-7

    Description of the incident:
    I was treating someone's injuries, but did not know what exactly was wrong with them. I went to grab a health analyser to the floor, whilst I was walking to it, Marcela De Silva and I walked into each other repeatedly and body blocked each other, to which I instinctually just shoved him out of the way, because I was treating a person in *critical condition*. The CO's rational response to this is to, of course, try and execute me. I immediately noticed this and started running off, once he opened fire on me I started defending myself. He then apparently got another marine to run up to me and kill me (is that even allowed)? And then BE'd my already dead corpse.

    Safe to say, it's a vast over-escalation to BE someone for shoving due to them treating a person in critical condition.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    I've recorded the entire thing.

    https://streamable.com/1rxg61

    Do you understand that staff make the final decision in the resolution of this report?
    Yes

  2. #2
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    Hi. I was the C.O here.

    I began the process of a battlefield execution due to you shoving me and others on the front - ICly, I don't really care why you were shoving. Shoving still counts as assault and puts everyone at risk on the frontlines. I would've carried out a B.E. if I saw someone shoving any other marine, but the fact you did on myself caught my attention.

    I accidentally proc'd the animation when I meant to PB. Regardless, you took the opportunity to fire buckshot at myself and other marines. You hit myself and at least one other marine. The buckshot effectively put me into softcrit, good stuff.

    This now changed the situation, you went from being B.E'd to being a mass shooter on the frontline. A marine asked me to kill you and I said yes, because per ML, this now could be counted as both self-defense and a battlefield execution.

    After you were subdued, I finished the B.E on my own with my Deagle.
    Mira A.W Lazar

    Sabriyya Al-Faheem

    XX-121 "LZ"

  3. #3
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    shoving me* small correction
    Mira A.W Lazar

    Sabriyya Al-Faheem

    XX-121 "LZ"

  4. #4
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    The only relevant part is me pushing you, the rest is - effectively - irrelevant. The entire area was secured by manned cades, there also was not a single xeno in sight, they did not pose a threat to you for the two (2) seconds that you were stunned.

    The Commanding Officer Code of Conduct/Battlefield Executions. page outlines generally accepted reasons to perform a BE.

    The life of you or others around you is in danger. An example of this would be an active shooter firing on Marines, or someone attempting to assassinate you.

    Does not apply, shoving you once behind fully manned and operational cades, with no xenos in sight, does not put you or others in danger.

    Someone is attempting to deliberately hinder or harass you, personally, whether it is preventing you from leading effectively, harassing you even when told to back off, or attempting to do acts that would cripple, disable or distract you from your duties. Note that you should give someone warnings when doing this before performing a BE.

    I would not claim to have hindered from effectively leading, or having harassed you. Even if you're convinced that I did, you did not provide verbal or any other sort of warning, you immediately escalated to a BE.

    Someone is attempting to overthrow, overrule or otherwise undermine your command or the CIC's command. This may be through threats of or acts of mutiny, sedition, desertion, or inciting dissident speech against the CO or CIC, such as encouraging others to mutiny.

    Nope.

    Someone is attempting to destroy, damage, or sabotage the ship, or the operation

    Nada.

    Of course, that section of the COC does state "Note: the examples in this list are not exhaustive. Scenarios that fall outside of these may be handled at your discretion."In which case I'd be interested to know in which way I posed a grievous threat to you, or the marines.

  5. #5
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    Also, I'd like to point this out: "Execution by Proxy is prohibited; Execution By Proxy / BE by Proxy is defined as asking or ordering others, directly or indirectly, to kill, disable or seriously injure someone else. This includes bounties, manhunts, or other requests that are capable of resulting in someone's death. Any attempts to perform executions must be done either in person by yourself or with standard Execution procedure."

    Your order to have me killed by another marine is a textbook violation of the COC.

  6. #6
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    Upon being confronted about it in the Discord, you also wrote this:

    "I'm completely fine defending myself ic and ooc for using BEs a lot"

    The highlighted part is in direct contrast to what the COC says:

    "Battlefield executions must be used sparingly due to their ability to permanently take someone out of the round. Invalid or unnecessary BEs may subject you to punitive action by the CO Council."

  7. #7
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    Background:
    It comes off to me as readily apparent to me via the report itself and your wording that you seem to think I've wronged you - more so, that I've wronged you in an OOC manner. I think it's very important for both you, and anyone I've been B.E'd to know that it doesn't mean anything OOCly. It's simply roleplay and anything less than that would be unbefitting of the position of C.O. I've done B.Es on people who I'm really good friends with OOCly (see myself executing Anderson before you for the same thing), simply because it's what I would do ICly. To clarify, onto that, I'm playing a quite authoritian C.O.

    We see throughout Aliens extended media more representations of the USCM that shine a better light on the organization than what we just see in the movies. For example, from Aliens: Fireteam Elite and Aliens: The RPG we get accounts on the USCM high brass that shines a less colorful light. We have an example from the RPG of the USCM carrying out mass executions in testing facilities, including civilians. It's stated through several sources that the upper echelons of the USCM have deep corruption with Weyland-Yutani and are overall, not very good people.

    This is the side of the USCM I'm trying to represent. The seedier officers higher in the chain. It's why I'm very liberal on battlefield executions; I'm playing a character who loves the USCM and its values, but is highly authoritarian in how they conduct things. It's why I'm very strict on ML and executions, but at the same time, I'm very keen ICly to call out anyone who comes to attention of De Silva as representing core values. For example, in the round afterwards a medal was given to both an aggressive squad leader and a obedient private who covered communications as well as scavenging teams. The carrot and the stick, therein.

    Unfortunately, you got the stick. I executed you because you had, by ML, committed assault on an officer in a battleground - As well as that, in my character eyes, by laying your hands on an other marine in the field you were now a risk. I can see why you might think I overreacted, it's fairly common for people to shove and the sort shipside before drop to mess around. You brought that down to the colony though and not only did it in view of my character, but shoved the C.O. directly.
    Execution:

    Now, there's been a few claims on the execution itself. One of them is that it was baseless and had no reasoning. From the non-exhaustive list we have on the Code of Conduct, this scenario is included:

    - The life of you or others around you is in danger. An example of this would be an active shooter firing on Marines, or someone attempting to assassinate you.

    By shoving myself on the frontlines, after Xenos had already confirmed I was the commanding officer, my life was put into danger. As well, this could be covered by a multitude of the other examples covered below. It could be considered undermining my ability to lead, or my command authority and lastly as sabotage against the operations for incapacitating a marine groundside. We have a firm basis therein for why the execution was carried out.

    Now, during the execution you shot back at myself. This escalated the matter as not only did you hit myself, but you hit several other marines. This now qualifies as attempted murder of the commanding officer, but also of Private First Class Paul Williams, whom you also shot. Let us quote lethal force word for word from the wiki.

    "Lethal Force
    During emergencies such as mutinies and boardings, or against suspects who have used a lethal weapon against law enforcement or other personnel, the Chief MP or Commander may authorize the use of lethal force"
    I authorized lethal force as the Commander over the operation because you now had severely endangered it by shooting myself and other marines who's only crime was simply standing by myself. Now, let's review self defense procedures:

    "This right extends to the defense of others, should there be a reason to believe they are in lethal danger. This provision does not apply to lawful killings such as executions.

    Proportional Force
    Punching against being punched.
    Melee weapons against melee weapons.
    Guns against guns.
    The person defending should only return with lethal force until the other person is unable to attack the defendant.
    The defendant should notify MP’s or his command about the use of self-defense.
    The person being attacked should also look to get away from the other attacker if possible, and alert the MP’s."
    You had put myself and other marines in lethal danger. I clarified, that yes, lethal force was authorized now. You used a gun and were promptly met with a gun. This falls outside of the execution process.

    Now that you had been subdued, I finished the battlefield execution process I started myself, which is why I B.E'd you as a corpse to render you perma, concluding the execution.

    I understand that getting executed may be frustrating, but I believe you've severely mistaken IC for OOC.
    Mira A.W Lazar

    Sabriyya Al-Faheem

    XX-121 "LZ"

  8. #8
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    It comes off to me as readily apparent to me via the report itself and your wording that you seem to think I've wronged you - more so, that I've wronged you in an OOC manner.

    No.

    I authorized lethal force as the Commander over the operation because you now had severely endangered it by shooting myself and other marines who's only crime was simply standing by myself. Now, let's review self defense procedures:

    As one can very clearly see in the video, you opened fire first. I did not use my weapons until you fired upon me. But that is actually completely irrelevant, because it's not the original reason why you wanted to BE. Your reason was that I shoved you.

    I understand that getting executed may be frustrating, but I believe you've severely mistaken IC for OOC.

    Stop with this, I did not.

  9. #9
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    Stop cluttering the report with replies, the council will rule on it soon.
    Synth Gaming

  10. #10
    Developer & CO Senator (Major General) naut's Avatar
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    Council looked over the report, and a video linked showcasing the incident that unfolded leading to this being filed.

    COs are allowed to execute Marines for being disarmed or shoved down - especially in the middle of combat - as it counts as a threat to their personal safety. While it's a bit excessive to go straight for the execution in this scenario, it remains ultimately valid as the CO had a valid reason to think that you were deliberately attempting to hinder them or start a fight.

    On the other subject of this report, though, the CO is not allowed to ask other Marines to execute someone for them, as specifically stated in the CO Code of Conduct that battlefield executions by proxy (delegating someone else to kill a target in your stead) is not allowed. Council will speak to them about this part in particular.

    This report is resolved. Action will be taken on only one of the allegations reported.
    Last edited by naut; 12-07-2022 at 06:24 AM.
    Major General / Colonel Samantha 'Sammy' Maverick
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