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Thread: Unknown - Rule 11 i believe

  1. #1
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    Unknown - Rule 11 i believe

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    EMiiX

    Date of Incident
    February 18, 2023

    Your Character Name?
    Emiix Aegadan

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Unknown

    Accused Character Name
    Ronald 'Silver' Triss

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    Round ended at 5:58 PM, EU Timezone

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 11 i believe

    Description of the incident:
    I didn't had time to write a fax IC due to hijack happening, and i was told to file a report, so the round could be restarted.

    To explain the situation, i joined as Doctor this round, and meet many friends this round. Since i spawn late, i spawned on local cryo area, so i walked tru req south area, where i meet Lenoox, and we interacted, tackle and play in a friendly manner, with no real harm intent.

    He later came to medbay with a grenade launcher, using non lethal baton slugs rounds, He fired it on me, and other people. That being a baton slug, it did minor to almost no damage that was patched instantly, since most of us were all doctors and CMO. We tackle him and fired it back on him. and we immediately patched the damage aswell. The MP's arrived in this last instance, just at the exact moment i fired the launcher on Lenoox. on wich, Ronald 'Silver' Triss, witness me fire it on Lenoox, one single time, no further actions.

    No one pressed charges or requested an arrest, or even yelled at the MP's to intervene, As we were all friendly playing and messing around. But he begin charging and trying to get me, flash and instantly cuff me without even stating that I'm under arrest. None of the people at medbay make any comment or intention to press charges on me, or viceversa, Yet i got dragged out, cuffed, by this MP. Even the CMO at this moment, begin using the radio to report such MP for stealing/taking me from medbay against everyone's, and my own will.

    While transporting me to brig, and being confronted, he begin stating random laws and states, such as, i commited DTGP. When i never broke, or destroy anything, or aimed at anything other than Lenoox.

    Charges that he never followed and charged me with, so i don't know why he even stated i committed such "crimes". Instead, he charged me Assault with a deadly weapon and Resisting arrest. The later one, being false, since he never stated i was under arrest, and straight away assaulted/flashed and cuffed me, While i was trying to speak with him, or yell him to hold, as he was trying to flash me out of nowhere.

    I voice my concerns over radio, where the CMO himself, confirm as witness, the MP never stated i was under arrest, to charge me with resisting "arrest".

    So to sum it up, this i believe its Prevarication, Knowingly adding false charges to highly increase the jail timer and ruining my round for no reason.

    Sadly, evac happen at the end, when my appeal was being handled, denied by XO at the time, wanting to escalate it to a fax to provost, but no time to do so due to the hijack crash incoming. At this time, the warden, Stephen 'Wall' Lewis, hold me unreasonable amount of time in the cell, untill the Evac, was properly called and activated, not letting me leave my cell untill then, denying me of any time to grab gear, prepare, or organize to assist in hijack, and putting me at risk of dying to the crash or xenos incoming if this took a tiny bit longer. On wich i decided to just hit the closest evac pod since i was not able to grab supplies, or the ship possibly crashing on my way out after being held for longer than needed to almost crashing.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    Pull logs if needed.

    Do you understand that staff make the final decision in the resolution of this report?
    Yes

  2. #2
    Whitelisted Predator Waseemq1235's Avatar
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    Will pull logs for this.

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    Hi, CMO here. As it will be shown in logs, I haven't seen MPs annoucing arrest and therefore protested against adding "resisting arrest" charge to Emiix's charges since well, it's hard to resist something you don't know about.

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    Whitelisted Predator Waseemq1235's Avatar
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    Included in the logs are:
    Emiix Aegadan - Doctor - EMiiX (Reporter)
    Ronald 'Silver' Triss - Military Police - Stutwoby (Accused)
    Homer Bennett - Chief Medical Officer
    Anthony Hammonds - Chief Military Police
    Stephen 'Wall' Lewis - Military Warden
    Misa 'Mars' Burnout - Executive Officer
    Other Parties

    Shenanigans Pre-MP Arrival
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    MPs Enter the Area and Arrest Emiix Aegadan
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    XO Arrives to Brig
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Hijack Happens
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Emiix Aegadan submits an AdminHelp
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Hello! Sorry for the delayed reply, I was trying to get my account verified.

    I see the point eMiiX is making and I would be mad in the situation too but I wanted to flag a couple of things so whoever makes the final call understands my actions better:

    CMP was already on the scene before I arrived, I joined the "party" late, only witnessed the Grenade launcher being shot, me and the CMP pulled out flashes around the same time, I can't remember specifically but it might've been me first. As anyone who has played MP before, you'll know it can be impractical to type out that they're under arrest after someone has already started shooting, that's why I was silent pre-arrest.

    As for the resisting, logs don't show unfortunately but eMiiX proceeded to run around post shooting. It's pretty evident in my opinion that if two MP's are holding flashes and following you after you shot someone, they're likely going to arrest you. If eMiiX had stood still post shooting then I wouldn't consider it resisting, but she proceeded to swerve and move between crew, you can see me using a group flash effect to subdue them.

    In hindsight I would've included the contraband charge but CMP left immediately as I was cuffing and I didn't bring up the grenade launcher, you can see more about this with my conversation with the warden regarding security the Grenade launcher.

    I think at the end of the day what I did was correct in following the SOP and marine law to the best of my ability, I hope my response here shows that I didn't maliciously add resisting arrest in an attempt to punish eMiiX further, but I was simply doing what was evident at the time. In hindsight I would've challenged the CMP more as to what happened in full, I assumed his response reflected what was correct in the moment (in that he was helping me detain eMiiX) but now but I can see the story before I arrived was more complex.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stutwoby View Post
    CMP was already on the scene before I arrived, I joined the "party" late, only witnessed the Grenade launcher being shot, me and the CMP pulled out flashes around the same time, I can't remember specifically but it might've been me first. As anyone who has played MP before, you'll know it can be impractical to type out that they're under arrest after someone has already started shooting, that's why I was silent pre-arrest.
    It can be impractical, if i'm an active shooter, but a grenade launcher, with you clearly witness a baton slug shell. So its, first of all, non-lethal round, second of all, thats the single round that was loaded on it, i would had to load it again if i wanted to shoot again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stutwoby View Post
    As for the resisting, logs don't show unfortunately but eMiiX proceeded to run around post shooting. It's pretty evident in my opinion that if two MP's are holding flashes and following you after you shot someone, they're likely going to arrest you. If eMiiX had stood still post shooting then I wouldn't consider it resisting, but she proceeded to swerve and move between crew, you can see me using a group flash effect to subdue them.
    I didn't proceed to run away, i stayed in medbay, next to Lenoox, and the other doctors and even all the MP's that arrived. Moved and stood next to CMO on the monitor, still. I moved again once i saw you, just grab the flash, and literally attempt to jump on my ass for no reason, when no one is asking for your assistance, nor charges on me or anything. You didn't bother informing me, you didn't bother talking to me, or the "affected" parties. And in fact, the moment i saw you rush at me, i only run in circles, around you. I never attempted to leave the scene, or run out of the area/medbay. I was running in circles around you, evading getting instantly flashed, and trying to talk to you. You can say on the logs i tried to yell at you, told you to hold, and tried to point at you, but you were adamant on flashing and instantly cuffing me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stutwoby View Post
    I think at the end of the day what I did was correct in following the SOP and marine law to the best of my ability, I hope my response here shows that I didn't maliciously add resisting arrest in an attempt to punish eMiiX further, but I was simply doing what was evident at the time. In hindsight I would've challenged the CMP more as to what happened in full, I assumed his response reflected what was correct in the moment (in that he was helping me detain eMiiX) but now but I can see the story before I arrived was more complex.
    You didn't bother to properly investigate and gather evidence, even when everyone else was telling you otherwise, slapped the charges you believed to happen and went with it, with no intent to talking with me, i didn't run away from you, just run in circles around you, cause you never stated the arrest, and as i said, you just charged at me, i don't know what else you expect a person to react when you grab tools, and just charge at them with clear intent and refusing to talk or even inform them of their arrest, but i never flee. You brig me for 30 minutes, refusing to listen to any of the parties involved.

    Should you had pointed and peacefully talked to me, or inform me of my arrest, i would had properly explained the situation, as i was not doing anything with ill intent.

  7. #7
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    It can be impractical, if i'm an active shooter, but a grenade launcher, with you clearly witness a baton slug shell. So its, first of all, non-lethal round, second of all, thats the single round that was loaded on it, i would had to load it again if i wanted to shoot again.
    Sorry, I don't expect medical staff to have a grenade launcher, in the same vein I don't know what else you're carrying. Maybe you have more batons, maybe you have an actual grenade. This point is moot in that you shouldn't have been carrying it in the first place. Ultimately you committed a crime here and you want us to react with leniency in a potentially lethal situation.

    I didn't proceed to run away, i stayed in medbay
    I don't think it matters if you stay in a department, actively evading being detained after shooting someone is still evading. Whoever makes the judgement call on this can correct me if I'm wrong, I think this will set a precedent because the wiki (at least in my search) doesn't have information on what the urgency of stating an arrest is in a situation where there is violence, in my head it's stop the violence, then process. If not then it'd be cool to have those hailers back which shout "Freeze" or whatever.

    jump on my ass for no reason
    Sorry but we've clarified this already. You shot someone with a grenade launcher on green as a medical doctor. This is plenty of reason.

    i only run in circles, around you
    Thanks for clarifying. I think ultimately it'll come down to this. In my opinion this is still evading, while I understand that I didn't tell you that you were under arrest, considering the severity of shooting another crew member with a grenade launcher, I don't think it was needed and I think we're all smart enough here to know that you intentionally evaded being detained by MP's following a shooting, as much as you want to justify it.

    You didn't bother to properly investigate and gather evidence, even when everyone else was telling you otherwise
    I tried talking to the CMP who was on the scene. He failed to inform me of any reason I shouldn't arrest you, considering he was the officer on scene witnessing it all, and if you look closer at the logs other MP's were agreeing with the decision considering the damage it caused.


    Should you had pointed and peacefully talked to me, or inform me of my arrest, i would had properly explained the situation, as i was not doing anything with ill intent.
    It's odd to expect peaceful conversations after shooting someone. I just want to re-emphasise how unreasonable this is.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stutwoby View Post
    Sorry, I don't expect medical staff to have a grenade launcher, in the same vein I don't know what else you're carrying. Maybe you have more batons, maybe you have an actual grenade. This point is moot in that you shouldn't have been carrying it in the first place. Ultimately you committed a crime here and you want us to react with leniency in a potentially lethal situation.


    I don't think it matters if you stay in a department, actively evading being detained after shooting someone is still evading. Whoever makes the judgement call on this can correct me if I'm wrong, I think this will set a precedent because the wiki (at least in my search) doesn't have information on what the urgency of stating an arrest is in a situation where there is violence, in my head it's stop the violence, then process. If not then it'd be cool to have those hailers back which shout "Freeze" or whatever.


    Sorry but we've clarified this already. You shot someone with a grenade launcher on green as a medical doctor. This is plenty of reason.


    Thanks for clarifying. I think ultimately it'll come down to this. In my opinion this is still evading, while I understand that I didn't tell you that you were under arrest, considering the severity of shooting another crew member with a grenade launcher, I don't think it was needed and I think we're all smart enough here to know that you intentionally evaded being detained by MP's following a shooting, as much as you want to justify it.


    I tried talking to the CMP who was on the scene. He failed to inform me of any reason I shouldn't arrest you, considering he was the officer on scene witnessing it all, and if you look closer at the logs other MP's were agreeing with the decision considering the damage it caused.



    It's odd to expect peaceful conversations after shooting someone. I just want to re-emphasise how unreasonable this is.
    The CMP arrived on the scene, pretty much at the same time as you. You were the only one actually trying to flash and jump on me, when i was not doing anything else, other than staying near the CMO, Other doctors, and Lenoox itself.
    You didn't even bother finding out where that weapon came from, i was shot early by that same weapon that Lenoox bring to medbay, So we took it out of his hands, and shoot him back with it. Again, you could clearly see, it was a non lethal round, and i did no further actions following that. I didn't flee, i didn't hit them with anything else, everyone told you, no one was pressing charges either. CMO was also present.

    There was no case of great bodily harm, and no request for arrest or charges. Nothing was broken, no one was shooting any type of lethal rounds either.

    Why would a Doctor, ruin his career, and go lethal with a grenade launcher, killing people in medbay. Makes no sense, Specially when i try to talk to you, and not immediatly flee the scene or away from you. I just wanted to talk to you when i saw your intentions instead of getting silently stunned. Wich is what happened anyway

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    You keep trying to justify the use of a weapon as if it wouldn't be a problem. Previous context or not you fired a weapon in medbay as a doctor. I don't think anyone is gonna argue the legality of that.

    There was no case of great bodily harm
    Doesn't matter if there is great bodily harm, you assaulted someone with a deadly weapon.

    and no request for arrest or charges.
    This is the crux, I'm interested to see what an admin says about this. I'll eat my words if whoever judges this thinks when there's an active shooter we should stop to type, but to me it makes no sense.

    Specially when i try to talk to you, and not immediately flee the scene or away from you. I just wanted to talk to you when i saw your intentions instead of getting silently stunned. Wich is what happened anyway
    Stop trying to inject this "I wasn't running, I was just casually avoiding your flashes", it's literally resisting arrest and I don't think spinning it into any other way changes that. You knew we were arresting you and you chose to not be arrested. We spoke after you got cuffed then you started insulting me, I'm not really interested in a civil dialogue with someone who says:

    [16:22:54]SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: Release me dumbass
    [16:23:04]SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: RETARD
    [16:24:07]SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: Are you stupid

    and you keep spousing this idea I was silent the whole time. I detained an active shooter, got you medical treatment, told you why I was arresting you, listened to your shit then took you to brig. I told you your sentence, informed you that you could appeal, told XO there was an appeal and even checked if I was needed for the appeal.

    I think you're inflating this over getting caught. I think you're trying to make a problem where there is none, or at least where common sense makes sense. I think you're trying to unreasonably make it look like I charged you for no reason at all then broke every procedure known to man. The XO running the appeal agreed you committed a crime and I think any MP with experience will tell you they would've arrested you on the spot as I did.

    I'm gonna wait for an admin to respond moving forward.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stutwoby View Post
    You keep trying to justify the use of a weapon as if it wouldn't be a problem. Previous context or not you fired a weapon in medbay as a doctor. I don't think anyone is gonna argue the legality of that.


    Doesn't matter if there is great bodily harm, you assaulted someone with a deadly weapon.


    This is the crux, I'm interested to see what an admin says about this. I'll eat my words if whoever judges this thinks when there's an active shooter we should stop to type, but to me it makes no sense.


    Stop trying to inject this "I wasn't running, I was just casually avoiding your flashes", it's literally resisting arrest and I don't think spinning it into any other way changes that. You knew we were arresting you and you chose to not be arrested. We spoke after you got cuffed then you started insulting me, I'm not really interested in a civil dialogue with someone who says:

    [16:22:54]SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: Release me dumbass
    [16:23:04]SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: RETARD
    [16:24:07]SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: Are you stupid

    and you keep spousing this idea I was silent the whole time. I detained an active shooter, got you medical treatment, told you why I was arresting you, listened to your shit then took you to brig. I told you your sentence, informed you that you could appeal, told XO there was an appeal and even checked if I was needed for the appeal.

    I think you're inflating this over getting caught. I think you're trying to make a problem where there is none, or at least where common sense makes sense. I think you're trying to unreasonably make it look like I charged you for no reason at all then broke every procedure known to man. The XO running the appeal agreed you committed a crime and I think any MP with experience will tell you they would've arrested you on the spot as I did.

    I'm gonna wait for an admin to respond moving forward.
    There is an arrest procedure that you skip. And yes, i saw you coming at me, it was obvious, but you still failed to inform me i was getting arrested. I just saw you trying to assault me, and take your tools out when i was not fleeing or doing anything else. The reason i even noticed your actions its because i sit next to the CMO, and was standing still next to the monitor. Not even moving, just chilling.

    And yes, you witness me fire a non lethal round.
    Wich i quote from ML

    "Vicarious Prosecution
    With the exclusion of capital crimes, actions resulting in Neglect of Duty or crimes resulting in grievous bodily harm, the Victim of a perceived crime retains the right to drop charges and request MPs or other prosecuting parties to release the perceived defendant. Continuing with or later arresting the defendant after the Victim drops charges constitutes prevarication, however the defendant may be detained for no longer than five minutes whilst the Provost Office is contacted by MPs for an appeal to arrest. If an appeal to arrest is not sent within the five minutes, or a response not received within three minutes of sending it, the defendant must be released else confinement is Illegal."

    It was not a capital crime, it didn't cause grievous bodily harm, you proceed with the arrest and charges, knowingly no one wanted to press charges.

    And the fact you didn't inform me of my arrest, i cant really "Evade arrest", i'm evading you trying to assault me and reducing me ilegally. Yet not even running from you.

    And about the appeal "The outcome of the appeal should be decided on individual charges. One should not give a general reply on the entire appeal. One must give the outcome per charge. When the appeal is done the punishment should be the punishment for the remaining charges."
    The XO did not decided on the individual charges, even if AWAD were to even stick to me, Resisting arrest was false.

    But yeah, lets just end the discussion here, and let the admins respond. Points and arguments were given more than enough

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