4hands44 - Ban Appeal (Job/Role Ban)

[4hands44]

Ban Appeal

Byond ID?

4hands44

Character Name?

James Blackbriar

Type of Ban?

Job/Role Ban

Admin who banned you (if known)

unknown

Total Ban Duration

unknown?

Remaining Duration

unknown?

What other servers do you play on?

Yogstation

Are you now or have you been banned on any servers? Which ones?

none/first ban

Reason for Ban

//showthrea...Rule-4-Rule-15

Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable):

-

Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc)

The attached ban says that i broke rules 3 4 and potentially 15?

the reason i was Job banned was because i fired wildly down a hall with a tazer and broke a marines chest with a baton.
I would like however to explain that the reason for my actions was because the marines involved had ganged up on me and repeatedly stolen my boots and beret and some one had stolen my taser out of its holster after i attempted to arrest a wanted marine and used both the disarm and tackle or whatever you call intents 2 and 3 unprovoked and thus i was forced to defend myself. as for the wildly firing the taser that was because in the pursuit of a marked fugitive and having a shit ping makes aiming hard when chasing people in a crowded hallway #turnbasedCM.

It was not my intention to induce chaos or grief, i had no malicious intent instead i was acting in self defense against 6-7 marines without backup.


and no im afraid cannot provide names to the marines who did this as it was a whole bunch of them.
and i sincerely sorry if i caused any grief.

Edit: After further reading of the complaints i noticed a few things

1: the fact some people said i Teargassed the SD defense. The only tear gas i threw was thrown at a group of Exnos and no marines were hit to my knowledge, this was followed by someone launching a normal grenade that promptly exploded decapping me and killing multiple nearby marines

2: I did obey the CO and stop pursuing the marine however the marines trying to keep me from arresting the original marine continued attacking me until the order to Defend the SD was issued and so i was unable to withdraw

3: the Delta mutiny report was based on multiple reports from different people saying that Delta was mutinying and so then after i got an identity report of who a person trying to incite mutiny was i went to arrest him. I never said to gas R&R or to engage Delta.

4: the tear gas in R&R was done on whichever MP that was 's own initiative and i even commented on it reprimanding the mp but then my cuffed prisoner bolted and so i chased them and never reach a resolution to the situation in R&R then when i tried to recapture him i was attacked by multiple marines who were interfering with the arrest (one even using a knife) ending with me in desperation using my baton with full aggression until the order to go to SD was issued and they stopped.

5: i did try to get the newbie a uniform after Rex brigged them but they went SSD and I was mildy confused/annoyed as to why Rex brigged them

6: yeah..i probably let things get out of hand and probably deserved the job ban for how i handled things

and yeah...im fine with whatever verdict you give i guess i probably overreacted to the situation in canteen

[Mizari]

Player Notes:

[4hands44]

as explanation for my actions you have listed i have written these short answers

Warned for ordering friendly forces to be shot if they went to get medical treatment. Was the CMP as they ordered it. | Wed, March 6th of 2019
I ordered this in regards to protecting research as a bunch of UPP soldiers after boarding to assist came to research during a project and the CL requested they be kept out
I did not order this regards to any seeking medical attention

Banned |Duration: 1440 minutes|Reason: Grief - as a PFC shot several people in briefing over a stolen SMG. Claimed the first shot was an accident but then decided to "roll with it" | Tue, March 12th of 2019
No excuse as I have no recollection of the incident and must have been drunk at the time


Warned for pardoning a prisoner as CMP without an appeal, and arresting an MP who refused to follow their Unlawful Order to release the prisoner. | Thu, March 14th of 2019
My reasoning had been because i had ordered the checkpoints be closed to the marines but a number of them had gone into R&R before this point and my MPs had arrest a bunch for tresspassing and someone complained to the CO about it after that the CO wanted it to stop so when an MP brought another marine in in for being on the wrong side of checkpoints i assumed it was another R&R marine and told the MP not to bother detaining him, which resulted in the dispute

Banned |Duration: 180 minutes|Reason: Grief. Murdered the CO after they had surrendered during a mutiny. The mutiny was over by a large margin when they did so, claiming they "thought he contacted high command". Told to ahelp in the future if they were uncertain about things. | Wed, March 20th of 2019
Was under the impression the CO had informed high command the Crew had mutinied and sent a distress signal and shot him once without the intent to kill( the CO also didnt die or even go crit so i dont see why it was labeled murdered)

Bad behavior as CMP as referenced in this report. //showthrea...Rule-4-Rule-15 | Tue, March 26th of 2019
see above appeal

I hope this is what you were looking for.

[Jaketeaking]

Im going to dissect this bit by bit. The actual reason for your ban was as follows:

4hands44 did a heap of wrong here it looks like. Inappropriate harm batons, attempting to arrest an entire squad during Delta alert and launching teargas into a group of marines at Delta alert. In addition they have multiple, recent notes for CMP/MP. They will be given a Job ban for those roles.

Now then,

"the reason i was Job banned was because I fired wildly down a hall with a tazer and broke a marines chest with a baton."
I would like however to explain that the reason for my actions was because the marines involved had ganged up on me and repeatedly stolen my boots and beret and some one had stolen my taser out of its holster after i attempted to arrest a wanted marine and used both the disarm and tackle or whatever you call intents 2 and 3 unprovoked and thus i was forced to defend myself."

A large amount of time takes place between this incident, and the later tazing/ harmbatons.

"as for the wildly firing the taser that was because in the pursuit of a marked fugitive and having a shit ping makes aiming hard when chasing people in a crowded hallway"

Well. The first thing. You harmbattoned a marine 3 times, before any true conflict was taking place with you. You then taze 3 marines in trying to get a 4th, who you do eventually manage to hit, at which point an uninvolved marine starts disarm spamming you.
Next, you harmbaton 2 other marines, one of which was the man you were attempting to arrest.
Finally, you use riot grenades in SD, which are not only completely useless against xenos, but at least one of those grenades hits a marine before exploding.

So, now to look over your points.

1: the fact some people said i Teargassed the SD defense. The only tear gas i threw was thrown at a group of Exnos and no marines were hit to my knowledge, this was followed by someone launching a normal grenade that promptly exploded decapping me and killing multiple nearby marines

Incorrect. As stated, those grenades hit marines before exploding. Futhermore, you were not infact killed by any grenade, it appears as though you were hit with a mateba round and a shotgun slug, Prompting me to belive that you were in fact executed, as per the witnesses statements.

[17:45:29]GAME: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) used a grenade (M81 riot grenade launcher (Wielded))
[17:45:29]ATTACK: Catherine Damsgaard () was hit by a the M66 teargas grenade, thrown by James Blackbriar (4hands44) (JMP)

[17:45:48]ATTACK: Heinz 'Wulfe' Meuller () shot Unknown (as James Blackbriar) () with a high-impact revolver bullet in the Hallway Stern
[17:46:05]ATTACK: Lena Ramis () shot Unknown (as James Blackbriar) () with a shotgun slug in the Self-Destruct Core Room

It does appear however that you may have had some connection issues around this point, so im glad I was able to clear this up.

2: I did obey the CO and stop pursuing the marine however the marines trying to keep me from arresting the original marine continued attacking me until the order to Defend the SD was issued and so i was unable to withdraw.

Im not seeing how you were "unable" to withdraw. Could you not have simply walked away?

3: the Delta mutiny report was based on multiple reports from different people saying that Delta was mutinying and so then after i got an identity report of who a person trying to incite mutiny was i went to arrest him. I never said to gas R&R or to engage Delta.

Whilst you are correct in stating that you never said to gas R&R,

[17:26:11]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : CODE RED DLETA MUTINY DEFEND CIC!
[17:28:07]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : ARRST DELTA
[17:28:44]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : MPS DELTA IS MUTINYING

Is very clearly saying arrest delta. Bear in mind that these logs all take place before you harmbaton any marines.

4: the tear gas in R&R was done on whichever MP that was 's own initiative and i even commented on it reprimanding the mp but then my cuffed prisoner bolted and so i chased them and never reach a resolution to the situation in R&R then when i tried to recapture him i was attacked by multiple marines who were interfering with the arrest (one even using a knife) ending with me in desperation using my baton with full aggression until the order to go to SD was issued and they stopped.

I see nowhere you mentioning any gas incidents, Nor do I see anybody attacking you with a knife. In addition to this, you apparently attacked first before any hostility commenced, After tazing a marine (who you then apologize to, so I can belive it was an accident), due to the logs showing you harmbatoning a marine 3 times, before any disarms/ interference was apparent.

5: i did try to get the newbie a uniform after Rex brigged them but they went SSD and I was mildy confused/annoyed as to why Rex brigged them

I see no logs confirming or denying this, plus you weren't directly accused of this, so ill take your word for it.

6: yeah..i probably let things get out of hand and probably deserved the job ban for how i handled things.

I await your reply to my comments.

[4hands44]

before i respond is there any way for me to receive a complete copy of the round logs so i can check the order of some events?


Edit:
as a side note i was not aware tear gas does nothing to exnos since in the past when ive used it in prior rounds it always sent the exnos fleeing from the detonating cloud

[Jaketeaking]

Please find attached a full copy of your logs from this round.

[4hands44]

my almost complete reply though i think there's a few things that I cant recall/find in the logs provided

1. [17:30:22]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : MP!
[17:30:28]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : WHAT ARE YOU DOIN! at this point while somewhat lackluster it was the point when the R&R tear gas incident occurred, clearly showing this was not a condoned action and that i had intended to reprimand/punish the MP however before i could press the issue my prisoner made a break for it and so i pursued him in favor of dealing with the gassing of R&R

2. you said: "Im not seeing how you were "unable" to withdraw. Could you not have simply walked away?", unfortunately because this game has player hit boxes which when everyone around you is shoving and disarming you it prevents you from easily escaping an aggressive horde

3. also i think its odd there is no log of a knife as i did get an orange health doll and one marine dropped a knife shortly after when i hit him

4. as for gassing allied marines the gas i fired in the SD was at an abandoned cade line only dead/dying marines were present and not at an visible active marines
and as previously mentioned up until the point i was unaware teargas didnt work on exnos since past round use had lead to exnos fleeing the gas cloud(s)

5. said "In addition to this, you apparently attacked first before any hostility commenced, After tazing a marine (who you then apologize to, so I can belive it was an accident), due to the logs showing you harmbatoning a marine 3 times, before any disarms/ interference was apparent." um could you show where?


6. also i would love to see the "all players and actions" log or what ever its called of the SD last stand as i recall death by a poorly thrown grenade(i coulda swore i saw a red "!" like nades have moments before my death though i could be mixing up rounds) and not a gunshot wound and i also find it unlikely even if i was shot dead, that i was BEd since i was at the front of a group of retreating defenders which is also when i fired my grenade launcher down a rapidly begin lost hall leading into the north entrance of the area in front of SD meaning i would be highly likely to get FFed regardless even though the log seems to indicate i was matebaed

[Jaketeaking]

1. [17:30:22]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : MP!
[17:30:28]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : WHAT ARE YOU DOIN! at this point while somewhat lackluster it was the point when the R&R tear gas incident occurred, clearly showing this was not a condoned action and that i had intended to reprimand/punish the MP however before i could press the issue my prisoner made a break for it and so i pursued him in favor of dealing with the gassing of R&R

The fact you did not bring it up again, nor ahelp, nor make any other mention of it at all, is disappointing, but I can accept this.

2. you said: "Im not seeing how you were "unable" to withdraw. Could you not have simply walked away?", unfortunately because this game has player hit boxes which when everyone around you is shoving and disarming you it prevents you from easily escaping an aggressive horde

Ill have to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

3. also i think its odd there is no log of a knife as i did get an orange health doll and one marine dropped a knife shortly after when i hit him

The logs show no knives at all. I searched multiple times using various methods and I see no knife attacks.

4. as for gassing allied marines the gas i fired in the SD was at an abandoned cade line only dead/dying marines were present and not at an visible active marines
and as previously mentioned up until the point i was unaware teargas didnt work on exnos since past round use had lead to exnos fleeing the gas cloud(s)

I cannot prove that the marines were dying/ dead/ not visible. However, a witness does state that:

I was the engineer that round who built up most of the SD defenses. I can confirm that WHILE the xenos were attacking SD, the CMP decided to DISCHARGE THEIR TEAR GAS GRENADE LAUNCHER AT MARINES WHILE SD WAS GETTING ATTACKED.

They promptly got BE'd on the spot. This is definitely greifing.

I am inclined therefore, to belive that this incident did infact happen at SD, whilst there were live marines. I have however, reached out to the CO in this incident, for comment. I shall update this topic when I get a response.

5. said "In addition to this, you apparently attacked first before any hostility commenced, After tazing a marine (who you then apologize to, so I can belive it was an accident), due to the logs showing you harmbatoning a marine 3 times, before any disarms/ interference was apparent." um could you show where?

[17:28:10]ATTACK: James Blackbriar (4hands44) shot Michael Bennett (X) with a taser bolt in the Hallway Aft
[17:28:20]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : Fuck
[17:28:22]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : Sorry

[17:31:06]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) attacked /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[17:31:06]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) stunned /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with the the stunbaton.
[17:31:07]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) attacked /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[17:31:07]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) stunned /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with the the stunbaton.
[17:31:09]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) attacked /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[17:31:09]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) stunned /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with the the stunbaton.

No combat logs are visible before this point.

6. also i would love to see the "all players and actions" log or what ever its called of the SD last stand as i recall death by a poorly thrown grenade(i coulda swore i saw a red "!" like nades have moments before my death though i could be mixing up rounds) and not a gunshot wound and i also find it unlikely even if i was shot dead, that i was BEd since i was at the front of a group of retreating defenders which is also when i fired my grenade launcher down a rapidly begin lost hall leading into the north entrance of the area in front of SD meaning i would be highly likely to get FFed regardless even though the log seems to indicate i was matebaed

As previously stated, I have reached out to the CO for comment on if you were or were not in fact BE'd.

Your story is not adding up for me, friend. I notice you have yet to dispute your claim that "you did not say to engage delta", which was proven incorrect.
I await your response.

[Jaketeaking]

Having spoken to the CO in this incident, they have confirmed to me, that you were in fact BE'd, the reason being, you fired teargas grenades into LIVE marines.

[4hands44]

Reply

[17:28:10]ATTACK: James Blackbriar (4hands44) shot Michael Bennett (X) with a taser bolt in the Hallway Aft
[17:28:20]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : Fuck
[17:28:22]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : Sorry

[17:31:06]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) attacked /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[17:31:06]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) stunned /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with the the stunbaton.
[17:31:07]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) attacked /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[17:31:07]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) stunned /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with the the stunbaton.
[17:31:09]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) attacked /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[17:31:09]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) stunned /(Maximilian 'Zuppa' Toscana) with the the stunbaton.

"No combat logs are visible before this point."

I honestly dont remember the exact reason but if i had to guess either he was either A marked as wanted or else B one of multiple marines who proceeded to throw insults at the nearby MPs shortly after evac returned shipside/R&R incident or else C intentionally/repeatedly body blocked or interrupted in some non intent action form my attempts to cuff the wanted marine D due to my poor aim due to ping hitting multiple uninvolved marines he may have begun behaving overly aggressive towards me in the form of insults or something of the sort, and so i may have batoned him as a response/arrest attempt though as i have stated i cannot recall the exact reason and cant see his log's side of the actions so im making an educated guess.

as for "Your story is not adding up for me, friend. I notice you have yet to dispute your claim that "you did not say to engage delta", which was proven incorrect." I do acknowledge ordering the arrest of Delta do to the multiple reports from various people stating Delta was attempting to riot/mutiny i did however order a defense of the CIC and not pursuit shortly after issuing the order to arrest delta as i was well aware of the fact 3-4 mps vs. an angry ships compliment of marines is pretty much suicidal and usually should not be conducted out in the open of the ship unless its to assist the command staffs evac or because they are assaulting a non CIC area, not to mention defense of the CIC and command staff is an MPs primary objective in the event of a mutiny. on top of that as i recall the CL had been causing trouble in the CIC at the time and so for that twofold reason i ordered the MPs to the CIC and would most likely have gone there if the arrest incident i was involved in did not play out like it did.

also i will concede to having been BE'ed since the CO has stated such and that i must have confused deaths with another round. I will however state i did not intentionally grief any living marines with my teargas fire as i have previously stated i couldnt see any live marines in the estimated blast radius of the hall-way cade line only exnos prior to firing. i even recall waiting for all visibly alive marines to fully vacate the cade line as i recall there having been a few mid retreat when i moved to assist the north defense and made a point of waiting for them to reach a point behind me shortly after that i was presumable killed as i recall death only a few moments after firing(originally believing it to have been caused by a grenade not mateba, though this fact has since be reversed).
I emphasize once again I DID NOT INTENTIONALLY AIM AT OR HIT CAPABLE LIVE MARINES WITH THE TEAR GAS and took care to wait for the visibly active and capable ones to pull back from the lost cade line to a point out of the blast zone and ONLY FIRED AT EXNOS AFTER THAT POINT if there were any actively fighting/capable marines in the area i DID NOT SEE THEM prior to firing and as previously mentioned up until you told me i was acting under the assumption tear gas had an effect on exnos.


as for the knife part, i find it interesting you didnt find any evidence of one as i recall having seen a knife after being orange health dolled and called the knife out on comms during the scrum in S-canteen however i wont dispute its existence further since in the long run it has minor bearing Byond the fact there were weapons drawn/used in the canteen fight


17:37:01]ATTACK: X/(John Petrovich) disarmed James Blackbriar (4hands44)
[17:37:20]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) attacked X/(Raul Hayhurst) with stunbaton (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE)
[17:37:20]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) stunned X/(Raul Hayhurst) with the the stunbaton.
[17:37:22]ATTACK: 4hands44/(James Blackbriar) grabbed X/(Raul Hayhurst)
[17:37:32]SAY: James Blackbriar/4hands44 : HE KNIFED ME!