Trijent Dam; Logistics Nightmare

[ColonelCorazon]

I forget who came up with it, but I saw a good idea about adding capturable LZs that, once taken, are available for marines to use. It'd be helpful for marine mobility but also add more to consider tactically. Not sure how the capture and loss of the LZ would work, maybe via fixing multiple generators to capture and breaking them to lose it. They'd probably have to function more like ACPs at Tcoms so xenos are able to cut off an LZ.

Would you risk sending a squad to secure an LZ so you can deploy all squads for territorial advantage? Maybe you'd lose the squad and be deploying at a disadvantage. So many options~ I feel like we have a few mechanics already in place that could be used to solve mobility problems on this map.

[prophetb1]

I haven't played much of the new Trijent, but I can still see marines being ungas and congregating around access points that are still very lethal, while the nearest safe access point is fifty tiles aways - and there is the fact that exploring is dangerous, what not with xenos using the water alot.

There needs to be a more effective way of moving entire squads around, like the APC that has been hinted at being worked on for Trijent.

Or you can just let the meta settle in as marines try to brute force their way around the map, that's also a possibilty, but a weak one.

[AcuteCircle]

I finally played the map, and oh my god, I don't like it, for the same reason everyone else stated.

It's a xeno map through and through, with nothing going for it for marines. No good chokepoint, FOB itself is just a big open area that's hard to properly reinforce. The map is too fucking big, the xenos can nest on the other side of the river and you have to turn on the retaded filtration to get to them: yes, retarded. Whoever thought it was a good idea to make an instakill river that xenos can walk thru but marines can't really needs to sit on that one. Xenos can just harass marines, retract over the river and keep harassing. Also, the has way too many buildings with too many doors and corridors. It makes it a flank heaven for xenos, and once again: marines have no good way to properly defend against that because there's just too many points at which xenos can just bypass the barricade.

Also the map crashes anyway, dunno if it's to the sheer size or the server commiting suicide from marine's frustration on having to play on this.

[Steelpoint]

The map seems like it's some kind of future proof for if we ever get a population of well over 200.

I can't say much to the map since I feel it is still early days, I think once the map is on more regular rotation we will start to the see the truth behind the madness. Perhaps all we need is time to play the map to develop viable Marine strategies.

But just off the bat, I do feel concerns with Marine logistics, FoB construction and coordination and command. Requisitions already struggles to keep the FoB's will supplied and Fob construction is a very, very, lengthy and mats expensive process (assuming you are building a FoB that is actually going to be useful).

Honestly, perhaps certain liberties should be taken with Trijent Dam to give the Marines some kind of initial leg up. Such as Requisitions getting more points for the map, or for the initial LZ's to be saturated with pre-established defensive barricades to expediate the fortification process and encourage the Marine Engineers/CTs/Synth to take their materials and create additional FoBs outside of the LZ.

[Snakebittenn]

The water should be able to damage xenos slowly so that Marines can control the rate at which both themselves and xenos can move. Also, vehicles would be incredibly nice for traversal of troops and supplies.

[Boersgard]

Many of these issues and more were brought up on the old forums:
https://cm-ss13.com/old/viewtopic.ph...art=25#p236496
Of note is medevac, which was brought up in one of the last Town Halls we had and the dev that responded to it (I forget which, sadly, it was a while ago) dismissed it and several others I brought up from the list I gave in that post as being things the Marines would have to deal with. Medevac, specifically, got us the response of "just take them back to Alamo via roller bed," which was a very suboptimal solution and poor response.

You know you're dealing with someone completely clueless, out-of-touch, and/or doesn't even play the game when they say something like this about medevac, lmao

[Boersgard]

With respect to Trijent Dam chokepoints, it might be tolerable if the water were just flat out inaccessible to xenos and marines entirely, and the only way to one side or another were across bridges. That, at least, gives marines some way of actually controlling territory without needing to dedicate enormous amounts of resources to cades.

But in general the large map size is indicating some serious issues with marines' ability to be relevant:

1. They have no fast transport options of any sort.
2. Organization and coordination necessitates moving even slower.
3. Xenos are so fast that they can quickly retreat and flank from a new direction
4. There are so few actual obstacles to xeno movement that it's impossible for marines to control territory/prevent flanks
5. Even if cades are used judiciously, it only takes a single T1 and a couple minutes to destroy an entire cade line of 100's of mats by itself

One of the best ways I can think of to bring some equality in movement/flanking between marines and xenos is to get rid of off-weed regen. Force xenos to rely on weeds again, and you make it much harder for them to operate all over the place on their own and without support. I would take it a step further and only allow weeds inside buildings/cave structures as well - no more weeds out in the roads and open spaces.

This wouldn't eliminate xenos' ability to harass and flank, but it would generally slow them down a little, speed marines up a little, and reduce the high tempo aliens have right now from being able to heal-everywhere while also getting movement buffs across half the map (while marines also get movement debuffs).

Honestly, this little change with off-weed regen and weeds only growing in areas with a roof might be all that's needed to fix 80% of the maneuver problem marines have on trijent dam.

Further changes I'd consider:
Remove T1/T2 acid from being able to destroy cades. Force xenos to commit to it with a T3 - and/or give engineers some way of fixing cades that have been acided instead of it just being "you looked away for 10 seconds and now 30 metal and 20 plasteel have gone up in smoke and there's nothing you can do about it".

[Steelpoint]

Im certain that the devs said that off weed regen still being in game was a oversight and it is slated for removal

[Boersgard]

First off, the main issue I found with the map that nothing really can be done about movement and tactically. I tried setting up this great big plan, and it just gets destroyed seconds in because the marines are as slow as snails on this map while nothing holds back the Xenos, who move much more agile and can, for some reason, cross the River uneased.

It's not just a matter of movement, but also how weak marines are on an individual level - a single squad simply cannot stand up against any substantial number of xenos, and with how slow marines move compared to xenos, you end up with 1 or 2 squads fighting every xeno on the map by themselves, and dying long long long before any other marine squad has a chance of reinforcing. Usually the squads are wiped - even on the small maps - before one of the other squads has even STARTED moving to help them.

[Fritigern]

Whoever made this map has never played a round of CM in their lives. It's pure aesthetic with zero gameplay in mind.