Justice for the Synthetic Council

[awan]

I am going to take a moment to clarify a few things.
Most of the following is from my point of view.
You can 100% just pick out whatever you feel like helps your argument.
But I am not here to argue I am here to explain where in my opinion these issues are coming from.
The following is how I remember it and might not be the complete picture since I do not have that.


Ill give you the TL;DR in advance lack of communication.


This already started with the synthetic gen 1 removal.
Well, to be honest it started before that.
The number 1 thing I remember from councils being made is a fear of the power they would have.
I remember the vice host at the time SLC being quite clear about this.
Any whitelist council member can go back in the whitelist council channel to 17-10-2018 to see the conversation about it at the time.
Or the post that spooky made about this.

The entire point of view how it was presented from the start was an advisory role.
Ill be quite honest imo we are quite past that. And I am not saying that is a /bad/ thing.
It has the positive points of handling issues way quicker.
But at least fmpov the council's opinion is pretty much binding and referred too on a regular basis these times.
That imo is enough to at least explain where monkey was coming from.

In general we as a dev team had solid reasonings and reason to remove the gen 1's.
After the fact these were discussed with the council.
This is where I/we made a mistake imo. We are still not communicating with councils.
I had made the intention to be at council meetings at the time and have attended some.
But 2-6 weeks ago I had exams I have to pass to not fail my year.
In general I am all for more communication but
1. It is clearly an expectation and communication problem.
2. We are also running into an issue where we as a developer team are not the last developer team.
In general, I do not think that if any of us joined while councils were binding that that would be changed.
We are all trying our best here.
In general I do think we are more open/accepting and that it's only going to move more towards that.
And I feel as if a big part of the development team really wants to be open but just feels that we get loads more not needed negativity than needed.
While we are in my opinion doing great stuff and making good long term progress.

I am really sad that this happened in general.
Now, I want to get out ahead of this.
The predator council was informed that there was an fds about preds and this was revealed to them.
That draft was made by me and is a first version. The intention from me was to get my own WL and than work on it.
And there is 5 things before that on my list like the SG changes.
And the draft was mostly made in response to Dutch's Dozens.
I do not mind the fds being public but that's a huge disclaimer that should go before it.
And I prefer it kept not shared because it's a draft/work product.

[SolubleWhenWet]

Devs without a WL b like

nonwhitedlistee shitstirrers b like; this isnt an issue of devs without a whitelist, there are plenty of devs without who have been and continue to be excellent members of the community. to me, i just get brushed off by some people for having my role in relation to circumstances outside of my control. educate yourself before you post.

[awan]

nonwhitedlistee shitstirrers b like; this isnt an issue of devs without a whitelist, there are plenty of devs without who have been and continue to be excellent members of the community. to me, i just get brushed off by some people for having my role in relation to circumstances outside of my control. educate yourself before you post.

Are you hinting/pointing at you not being voted in/being a replacement?
I have not seen any devs treat any council members noticibly in that way. It has also never come up in any development chats. Nor have I seen them mention it once.

Ps. Thanks for the compliment to some devs.

[SolubleWhenWet]

Are you hinting/pointing at you not being voted in/being a replacement?
I have not seen any devs treat any council members noticibly in that way. It has also never come up in any development chats. Nor have I seen them mention it once.

Ps. Thanks for the compliment to some devs.

i wasnt voted in, but i was requested to be a replacement for zane. there are a lot of better players who could have gotten the spot, so i try my best to live up to everyones expectations and then some. i can only make claims on staffmembers from what i see and hear, and when i speak with deanthelis, forgive me for saying this he has this honest bluntness to everything he says. might not mean to come across a certain way which is why i told jakk this might be a misunderstanding, but here we are.

what wisdom on devs i have ascertained in my time in the synth council, there are plans in place for things and it isnt just throwing shit on the wall hoping it sticks. ive been assured by dean all changes recieve a go ahead by all members, so dev bashing for x update is asinine for each update, as it was ok'd by the think tank. basically, you have 5 (clueless) councilmbers who have to get a managaer to schedule time eventually to talk about anything, and seemingly dismissive developers who say "yeah i should be listening to you but i dont have to tell you anything, and if youre a nuisance we can just wait til next term." dont get me wrong, the current dev team is good, im not getting griefed by them ingame for hurting their feelings, but a lot of this could just be resolved with a quick snip of the councils page on what to expect.

[bobatnight]

I have not experienced any of the same issues Jakk is speaking of, however, I don't think I've been involved with to many situations like his.

I have been (slowly) working on the Yautja lore, mainly by myself. I have asked a multitude of times for contributions from the Yautja community and I think a grand total of 1 person contacted me.

That's because we all disagreed with your ideas. (See the thread you made and got feedback on.)

[RobBrown4PM]

That's because we all disagreed with your ideas. (See the thread you made and got feedback on.)

That was a completely different thread and situation. I am speaking about after I was in the council. I have made countless attempts at getting others to shoot me ideas so we can collaborate, and so far literally only 1 person has come forward with any ideas or advice.

If you have any ideas you want to shoot our way I urge you to do so. Let's make this a team effort here guys, come'on.

[Avalanchee]

nonwhitedlistee shitstirrers b like; this isnt an issue of devs without a whitelist, there are plenty of devs without who have been and continue to be excellent members of the community. to me, i just get brushed off by some people for having my role in relation to circumstances outside of my control. educate yourself before you post.

You know, I did my own research and I do infact have my own opinion on this entire fiasco.

Also "not all WLd devs.."
You know exactly who I was talking about, but this thread isn't supposed to be a dev rant so I'll restrain from sharing my own view.

All am' saying is that
Devs should absolutely NOT change anything related to synth/pred/CO without council's approval - including the lore.

[awan]

You know, I did my own research and I do infact have my own opinion on this entire fiasco.

Also "not all WLd devs.."
You know exactly who I was talking about, but this thread isn't supposed to be a dev rant so I'll restrain from sharing my own view.

All am' saying is that
Devs should absolutely NOT change anything related to synth/pred/CO without council's approval - including the lore.

Would the reverse also not be true though. Because the document that I saw does have conflicts with our current lore. (Example at the end of the post.)
And the general lore has always been what the developers do.
The lore should fit.
And outside of that afaik the issue is not even about synth specific lore. The issue is that all lore interacts with each other.
And the established lore has things the synthetic council disagrees with.
If the lore was changed so the year was 4015 the councils had to abide by that.
And if you read into the situation you should know exactly what part of the lore it is about.
(Mostly who was president in the past and for how long.)
And that is most certainly not synthetic lore.

Examples.
I am not going to reveal the internal of the document.
I just want to point out that there are.
2186 - Current year. Cases of synthetics being hacked have sprung up across the galaxy, done primarily by CLF soldiers who have repurposed their colony synthetics.
Issues with this. 1. Clf is a militia/terrorist organization active in the tychus rift sector. http://www.cm-ss13.com/wiki/The_Colo...beration_Front
They are thus not galaxy-wide. Their members count is 150,000 +/- that does not even sound like a lot in our time. The NRA has 5 million, Isis is estimated to be 100,000 members.
Their members count is 150,000 around 0,3% of the people is seen as technically adept in coding in our current time. If we triple that number and round it to make it 1%. (I do this since you need to be a professional to hack a machine. And this number is above the number that is currently seen as an electronics expert with enough expertise to make a radio.)

Synthetics lorewise were always rare and special. The tychus rift sector is imo at least seen as fringe territory. This is not a rebellion in the home territory at least according to the lore the clf is upset from a lack of protection. This is a border area. So, in general, my numbers are likely to be on the high side. If we compare this to isis I do not expect to find many hackers/programmers there. Even less synthetics. Almost all synthetics you will find there are owned by the high class or corporately owned. If we used the Almayer as a reference they have 1 synthetic for 300 people that means 500 synthetics are most in the sector. I would even argue that almost all of those are needed quite hard by the people who bought them. They are very likely relied upon a lot. You would give up your car for a cause. But a village with one tractor that they need to grow food likely will not give it up.

[bobatnight]

Awan I love you buddy but nobody really gives a hoot about the probability of it happening, the gameplay/RP that's possible from it is all that I'd care about.

[solidfury7]

It's a tough cookie, I don't really have a dog in this fight.

However, council leaders are likely to change, and with that, their views on lore are likely to differ. I think we should probably instead have a dedicated lore team working with the devs rather than a temporary role.

Consistency is key with lore.