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Thread: solidfury7 - Ban Appeal (Job/Role Ban)

  1. #1
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    solidfury7 - Ban Appeal (Job/Role Ban)

    Ban Appeal
    Byond ID?
    solidfury7
    Character Name?
    William 'Jester' Crimson
    Type of Ban?
    Job/Role Ban
    Admin who banned you (if known)
    Grimcad
    Total Ban Duration
    N/A
    Remaining Duration
    N/A
    What other servers do you play on?
    None
    Are you now or have you been banned on any servers? Which ones?
    None in the last 4 years
    Reason for BanLink to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable):
    -
    Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc)
    So, I�m making this appeal because I believe that the punishment does not fit the crime, pun intended.
    I was going to just ride it out for a while, however, I�ve had rather an astonishing amount of support regarding the fact that this is job-ban is overkill, anti-roleplay and heavy handed. Not to mention it does not at the full context of the logs, which I will be going in to detail with shortly.

    I will concede that marine law was broken, however, I will argue that this is on the basis that marine law has been bendable for some time, if the context makes sense.

    I will be posting the reasonings highlighted by Grimcad, before addressing it in a post below

    It is true, I threaten the CMO after he refused to track the deceased MP. This is while the majority of my department is deceased from one alien, and I have just discovered MP equipment and a blood trail in the maintenance. At this time, out of a full MP department, only I and another MP were active on the frequency during high pop. The rest were dead and honestly, I presumed myself to be dead. While technically my threat against the CMO was a legal breach, it is the same type of legal breach that say, shooting a window to save a critical marine may be. In the context it makes sense and SHOULD be dealt with ICly in such a context. The Military Police are not robo-cops, the majority of the team are medium-high roleplayers sometimes they will say things for example, off the record to another MP questioning the Captains leadership of the operation, should we begin ahelping them? Or perhaps a close MP making a joke at my expense in a friendly manner. No, because context matters. This black and white view on marine law is out-dated.

    2) �The CMP does not have authority over the CMO on code red and cannot order them, in this case tracking the dead MP. They are a Department head. And while not directly in the chain of command they, and other doctors, are certainly more than the civilians that are picked up from the planet.�

    This ruling is one that I�ve had the most PMs about, this sets a terrible precedent. The current mess that marine law is clarifies that medical are civilians ++, this is not covered in marine law (civilians are barely covered at all, which is a whole different issue) The CMO is both an officer, and a civilian (somehow), while his department are civilians, but they are more than that. This failure to clarify lays at the feet at Marine Law but places all the responsibility for the Military Police to guess their boundaries. The fact that the HEAD OF SECURITY does not have the authority of a Head of Medical during a Red Alert SECURITY protocol is equally ridiculous and I am not the first to find this evident precedent rather ill-thought out.

    Grimcads post regarding medical being civilian++ is not stated anywhere, as such, this fault lays at the staffs team for failing to clarify this, you cannot enforce a rule that nobody knew existed and use it for a ban.



    �3) The CMP tazed the CMO for no reason other than to berate them for not following their order, though it is unclear if the CMO was operating on a patient, or preparing to operate on a patient, or not as surgery logs do not show in extended logs.
    This is assault. While marines are often accidentally tazed in the line of duty by an MP chasing a slippery suspect, and this is overlooked, tazing someone intentionally to yell at them is a different matter.�

    I concede that the taser was probably the major error of my round, I cannot recall why I did it, perhaps it was to arrest him, I can say he was not on surgery, he was in the medical lobby with a doctor and a medic I believe.

    �4) The charge of Contraband for the CMO drugging the Doctor was incorrect. The law specifically mentions the distribution of drugs. In this case, where the CMO used the drugs to put one doctor to sleep, it should have only been a charge of assault.�

    The misapplication of the contraband tool was an error, as this was the first time since the marine law changes that I had dealt with a medical issue regarding the usage of chemicals. During this whole round, I checked all my charges and appeals against the Captain. As while myself and the CMO are chill OOCly, I did not wish to be perceived as bias within my roleplay (as I was making the arrest, I always get someone else to handle the appeals) and I was cleared on each charge. Reading back, evidently the assault charge would have been a better fit, although this would have made little difference, as the Captain was seeking to remove him from the ship for his perceived failures. (This is seen when the Captain calls me to his office to discuss the CMOs actions and inaction,)
    Marine law is infamously tricky, it is a reason that every competent MP has marine law open at all times, however sometimes it�ll fail, even with the safe-guards. Despite this I made a consciousness effort to double-check all my arrests with the Captain, who was in agreement that these charges were applicable for this unusual situation.

    Now, it would have been far easier to simply to follow the traditional path for appeals, however after the self-reflection of this situation and the rather astonishing support I�ve had sent my way, I realised that this situation has been exacerbated by the lunking mess of outdated marine law, scattered rulings (Which Grimcad and I had a chat about and he�s working on resolving, thankfully) and unwritten rules, which even the reporter said was the main issue, rather than the actual situation which occurred.
    Last edited by solidfury7; 04-19-2019 at 01:25 PM.

  2. #2
    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    Notes:

    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    Bobat you are not a staff member you do not post in someone else�s appeal even if you�re trying to be helpful. We are not going to have this TIT FOR TAT back and forth stuff with you two.

    It ends now.
    Next time if you have information you think should be shared, contact an admin instead.
    Last edited by ThesoldierLLJK; 04-19-2019 at 04:22 PM.

  4. #4
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    Just a quick post,

    I may be unable to access for the forums for a few days so if anything gets sent my way question wise or verdict wise, a discord ping would be ideal, thanks.

  5. #5
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    I don' think this jobban was overkill.
    It looks like you're using a few unclear rulings or situations to ignore or hide some of the undeniable rulebreaks that lead to your jobban.
    Reading the report and your appeal again, I'm convinced you'll act the exact same way if faccing a similar situation again.

    Have you played as MP alot since the jobban?

  6. #6
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharinoma View Post
    I don' think this jobban was overkill.
    It looks like you're using a few unclear rulings or situations to ignore or hide some of the undeniable rulebreaks that lead to your jobban.
    Reading the report and your appeal again, I'm convinced you'll act the exact same way if faccing a similar situation again.

    Have you played as MP alot since the jobban?
    You're more than welcome to present such examples.

    I admit that I was incorrect with one crime with sentencing, which lead to a technically 5-minute longer sentence. The Captain wished for the CMO to be removed from the vessel and he was likely going to be BE'ed if not executed. And I admit that the taser on the CMO was overkill, however this was a roleplayed shipside interaction during a red alert situation as I've highlighted.

    This was not merely me running around tasing and stunbatoning marines, this was a high RP conflict between myself and the CMO due to what my character felt was his willful disregard of the MPs lives on the ship, who were dropping like flies, and the captains agreement with it. This is an interaction which extended over 2 hours.

    Regarding the unclear rulings, I believe that is an issue which directly lays at the feet of staff, if you, the staff provide unclear rulings which cause issues due to misunderstanding, grey areas and other such things. Even the reporting individual made the report with the exact intent of having marine law clarified because the situation was a shitshow due to these unclear rulings, rather than having me punished. You cannot expect Military Police who have to deal with things in a BLACK and WHITE manner to have grey areas, that is why the issue is with the situation with the rulings and marine law.

    This is not a jab at the staff, and Grimcard himself admitted that the rulings and changes to marine law are frequent, unclear and he has informed me that he'll fix that, which he got on to with pretty swift speed, making a post regarding it on the same day we spoke.

    Regarding if I would do the same actions again? No, I wouldn't do the same actions, as I said, I made mistake with misapplying a law in place of another and my taser on the CMO were overkill. I will argue against this whole "MPs cannot break a marine law, regardless of context" accusation, which the whole staff team knows is silly and openly ignores. If an MP breaks in to a window to save a marine, he is breaking the OOC rules, do MPs do it? Yes. If an MP steps out the brig during brig duty to grab something from another office, does that break the rules? Yes, technically. But it's been ignored by all staff previously, Emerald specifically told a moderator in the past (I can dig up the logs if need be) to ignore the minor things such as that. I would personally call some High RP conflict and harsh words between the CMP and CMO such a thing.

    I've been playing as a CMP main for around two years now (ish), around 6 hours a day and this is one of the only incidents. A two-month ban for a single incident within a year, with no prior warnings, is extremely harsh sentencing.

    Those who know me know I'm here for the roleplay, and being a robotic CMP with no emotion may have been a good meme during the old lynching days, but I think the community got bored of it rather quickly, especially following the "Weapon in briefing? Brig" days.


    Yeah, I've played MP a fair amount since the job-ban, staff will be able to attest to the fact, I have been puritanical with following marine law, I have also been playing a lot of Captain and a few rare rounds as Synthetic and SL.

  7. #7
    CM-SS13 Vice Host
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    I can attest to his extensive activity as an MP since his CMP ban.
    Charles & Arthur Edwinson
    Synth Percival | Artyom
    Yautja Kjhute Luar-ke

    Record:
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Discord: forest2001#2001

  8. #8
    Admin Sir Lordington's Avatar
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    This has stuck for long enough and you have proven you can play MP without creating trouble. I'm not going to debate the finer points on why what you did was wrong as this is not the place. You're going to be given another shot, but I suggest exercising restraint and asking mods/admins if you believe an action may be borderline. I hope everything is smooth sailing from now on.

    Resolved.
    Last edited by Sir Lordington; 06-02-2019 at 06:00 PM.

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