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Thread: why does trijent dam suck

  1. #21
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    It is deeply ironic to me that the biggest map, has the least number of paths marines can take because of the water and layout and travel time.

    The Marines will ALWAYS be coming from the west and ALWAYS along the same paths.

    Aliens dont have to watch for flanks. They know exactly where the marines will be, and exactly the most popular roads to ambush on.

    I took a copy of the map and drew it up.. Almost every round is like this. Marines can be found in the red area, and almost nowhere else. The orange routes are the same ones I see them travel over and over again.. With the green checkmark the spot where they setup a fob, that gets overrun and everyone killed retreating.

    And even my marks are generous, because there are pockets in the red area no one goes to (like the graveyard).

    Please feel free to disagree.

  2. #22
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    I just want a 3rd LZ mechanic implemented and once marines clear the dam theres an APC there that enables the drop ship to land there once fixed
    Kennard Davis
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  3. #23
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    I believe that Dam would make an exceptional HvH and Infection map, same for tribes. It is not great for XvH because xenos can redeploy on a dime. The sheer size of labs makes any push into the area extremely costly for little gain. Even if you did clear the labs, you'll probably only end up killing a dozen xenos at most while seeing more than a dozen marines dragged off (seeing as now marines can host more than one larva means that the xenos gain in the long run). Xenos can delay for as long as they like.

    I do believe that the game is shifting towards Mega FOBs, forcing xenos into kill zones and using ranged combat to counter boilers. Last night's round on ICE saw the construction of a Mega FOB and the knocking down of major colony structures using CAS munitions. Marines took very few casualities except for the occasional blunder underground.

  4. #24
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    Trijent dam isn't really designed with the gameplay reality of colonial marines in mind.

    Marines are slow
    Xenos are fast

    That's the short of it, but in more detail, marines simply can't move around and counter/flank/exploit xenos - and to compound it further, it only takes a couple flanking xenos to pose a significant threat to an entire squad due to xeno balance making them individually strong. A pair of runners can literally tie down and occupy an entire squad of 20 ungas for minutes if not even scoring a kill here and there. Whereas doing the equivalent takes almost as much as an entire squad from the marine side. Right now, the way marines get around this problem is by creating FOB chokepoints to control flanking routes and supply lines, but xenos have a ton of counters for this and the FOB creation itself takes a long time, is restricted to only a few players on the marine side, and takes a lot of limited materials.

    If we balanced marines so they could more easily build fobs for a map like trijent, marines will become much stronger on all the other maps with far more restricted movement options.

    Really it comes down to trijent being really big AND really open, in conjunction with difficult to build fobs, easily destroyed unmanned fobs, and the huge disparity in speed and power between an individual xeno and individual marine.

    A better map design for colonial marines should probably have the following:

    1. 1-2 'main routes' to the battlefield that can be easily fortified along their extent (e.g. LZ1 -> Hydro on LV-624)
    2. A defensible landing zone with flanking options, but not too many that they cannot be adequately manned or built (e.g. LZ1 on Solaris Ridge)
    3. An open 'battle area' where the two sides meet and fight back and forth (e.g. river/tfort/containers on LV-624)

  5. #25
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    many pieces of the map look very similar to each other, perhaps more sign posts, landmarks, and more color-coding (like how different ship areas can have color coded tiles, etc) of different buildings/areas could help

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBlast View Post
    I just want a 3rd LZ mechanic implemented and once marines clear the dam theres an APC there that enables the drop ship to land there once fixed
    I think this has potential. Github it.

  7. #27
    Senior Member WinterClould's Avatar
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    I feel like with the size and scale of the map especially the first version of it before this one, it would have been much better served with actual unique features that aren't just the river of death.

    I'm talking like, a train marines could get running, a third lz. an APC. ya know, transport that makes the size of the map smaller if you put it to good use. As it is now I think it's a good map marines are to stupid to make good use of because they're salty man children who dont like to adapt when change, they just want to find the meta that gets them wins and do that every round which is hella lame. But it needs it's x factor because posion river sure ain't it
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  8. #28
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    Hmmm I seem to be the odd one out, I'm personally a fan of the dam, why you might ask? Due to it's potential, now I'v played survivor on dam a fair few times, So I'v got a feeling of movement routes, Locations of items ect, and well I might not play a Command role I don't think that going through the center of the map is correct.

    LZ2 is a logical choice of marines in terms of FoB( easiest to defend, near T-coms, but I'd personally ignore the center part of dam(the bridge) why you wonder? It takes to long to reach from either LZ, It would be more logical to go east from LZ2 setting up defences along loading bay and in to filtration, repairing filtration and moving the main force east again. setting up a second checkpoint at the mess hall then pushing north to repair the second filtrations building, then you could either make a second check point at the hospital for field surgery and push north again or simply push north, this map really does not lack metal so these check points should be pretty decent.

    This whole idea would likely need some changes but it sounds decent in theory.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalattack View Post
    Hmmm I seem to be the odd one out, I'm personally a fan of the dam, why you might ask? Due to it's potential, now I'v played survivor on dam a fair few times, So I'v got a feeling of movement routes, Locations of items ect, and well I might not play a Command role I don't think that going through the center of the map is correct.

    LZ2 is a logical choice of marines in terms of FoB( easiest to defend, near T-coms, but I'd personally ignore the center part of dam(the bridge) why you wonder? It takes to long to reach from either LZ, It would be more logical to go east from LZ2 setting up defences along loading bay and in to filtration, repairing filtration and moving the main force east again. setting up a second checkpoint at the mess hall then pushing north to repair the second filtrations building, then you could either make a second check point at the hospital for field surgery and push north again or simply push north, this map really does not lack metal so these check points should be pretty decent.

    This whole idea would likely need some changes but it sounds decent in theory.
    It won't work simply because it's too easy to cut all of that off.

    If you have 50 marines all the way out east at medbay, then all it takes is 5 xenos hitting filtration to cut them all off and kill anyone traveling in-between. To push away (not even kill) 5 xenos you'll need half a squad at least (and there's no way to order just half a squad to a location, it's usually the whole squad or nothing) and the response time will be very long. Easily more than 5 minutes and probably in the 10 minute range for on-the-ball command to tell an on-the-ball squad to move and them actually getting there/fighting anything.

    If we had train tracks and marines could load into it to travel across the map from the FoB to another location on the map without xenos being able to do anything to stop the train or kill marines on the train, that could allow for a 'forward base' that can actually work and allow marines to push from it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShakeEZ View Post
    The only gameplan on trijent is unga rush because its impossible to fortify a supply line. The problem with unga rushing on trijent is its massively huge, it has shit water that slows you down from unga rushing, and the xenos can just make tunnels everywhere and you can never run them down. All that added together means you cant unga rush, yet its the only tactic. Map is stupid.
    Thanks for the note.
    Have a nice day all

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