Unknown - Rule 3 and Rule 4

[Vispainius]

Player Report

Your Byond ID?

Vispain

Your Character Name?

Cassius Klaus

Accused Byond Key(if known):

Asian_047

Accused Character Name

Jaidon "Buckshot" Wise

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)

4/30/2019 - 5/1/2019? Eastern Time

What rule(s) were broken:

Rule 3 and Rule 4

Description of the incident:

This incident first occurred pre-drop on a Prison round. Essentially all the marines were aboard the dropship along with the tank awaiting deployment. I was located in the back the dropship, in front of the tank with a mortar. As we were waiting, someone declared, "Hey run me over!". Jaidon, the driver at the time, proceeded to run us all over. Destroying the mortar and not only running over myself but also 3+ more marines laying down in front of the tank. I believe at least one of the marine "Piles" in front of the tank was doubled so that may be 4+. Following this, I was livid and hit the tank as well as punched a visible TC more than a few times expressing my frustration and anger. Eventually, I got over it and resolved to continue along my merry way...

Only for me, as we leave the dropship, to see Jaidon run over another marine.
Following that, I was livid once more, eventually gave up and once again, cooled off. Reasoning that accidents do happen and maybe I was seeing the worst where there was none.

Amazingly. Jaidon kept at his � proclivity for running people over...
As later, when I was walking past the tank I noticed there was some commotion. Apparently... He had run over and was purposely staying on top of another marine... Purposely. Again.

Once again, I was livid. And proceeded with my futile hits upon the tank.
Eventually I gave up again.
And was pinged by a moderator with "Why were you hitting the tank" or something of that effect.

Naturally, I understood the moderator's concern and tried explaining why, as I'm sure are in the logs.

What I learned was disheartening. Apparently, being run over by the tank does not log. Meaning, Jaidon could run over as many people as he wanted and it would never log. This means asides from witnesses I have no evidence for you. So, I suppose its going to come down to that to see what the situation really was on other player's points of view from here on the forums as well as verbal logs. On that note from what I've heard from both people in that round and later in subsequent rounds even the next day Jaidon was a, in appropriate language, very annoying with the tank so say it lightly. In terms of Rule 3 and Rule 4, he was, "being an asshole" and "attempting to cause annoyance" to other players.

So, long story short, the moderator ended up having to relog and nothing happened regarding myself hitting the tank. Soon enough though... as I was walking past the tank, they rammed me again. This time out of anger I presume.

Its funny how Jaidon expressed his own anger over the tank being hit in this case by ramming me yet, he himself, had been consistently running over people and gave no care or even effort to prevent, avoid, or cease his own actions of "just plain being an asshole". And if it was not out of anger...then this case is yet just another example of him still, "just plain being an asshole" as according to Rule 3 by consistently running over more people without care or regard. After that, I declared as I'm sure can be found in the logs that I had enough. This statement followed almost immediately myself being run over and sat on by the tank. Following that I tried planting C4 on the tank, failed and gave up once again, reasoning I'd just avoid the tank best I could.

The best part of this whole chaotic story? It occurred between around 25 minutes in and � give or take an hour I think.

As I went along this round, and it was a long one at a memorable 4 1/2 hours... I died several times. Across that period of time I would enquire as to the tank occasionally. And... what I found was that I wasn't wrong or alone in my opinion. The tank driver was dickish. Additionally, I found out from one person that the tank had, before its destruction, ended up running over 15+ people.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

- Should be in the logs of 4 1/2 hour round on Prison during 4/30/2019.

How you would punish the accused:

So what do I want from this report. Well, due to the lack of evidence aside from verbal logs, I would mainly just like a warning. A ban wouldn't be bad, but it would be more drastic without previous, to my knowledge, behavior being recorded.

If Jaidon does have a history of such previous Rule 3 or Rule 4 breaking behavior, then I personally absolutely would advocate for a ban from the role until he proves he can handle it.

Warning
and/or
Ban from Tank Crew

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Tank running over someone won't show up on logs.

All I can post are the conversations

[Asian_047]

Those are the wrong logs. I'm at school right now so I'll come make a full response once I'm out

[ThesoldierLLJK]

I think I found the correct logs on 4/31/19

[Asian_047]

Alrighty here we go

So first thing: the mortar. It was a complete and honest mistake. There were many people in front of the tank, all resting. The crate was underneath all of the people who were resting on top of it. When the marine asked me to run them over I was extra careful to make sure nobody was standing directly in front, unfortunately I missed the mortar crate. It is also possible that it was on top the attachment point at the rear end of the Alamo. I do not remember or know if it was because I completely missed it in the first place.

Now I remember intentionally running over two people: some marine in FOB and Cassius

I ran over the random marine because I wanted to leave the FOB and this marine wouldn't move so I went ahead and ran him over, evidently there was a window in the way so I started asking (I do seem to use caps lock a lot) for somebody to deconstruct it. I should also mention that right after we landed, Cassius had unloaded his gun (and also hit me a bunch, didn't notice that though) multiple times into me, the bulk of it when I ran over that first marine near the window frame. Now if I remember correctly he was a charlie engineer, instead of just deconstructing the window he decides to shoot the tank with multiple pulse rifle bursts. Eventually another engineer came and that was the end of that situation, although I left it pretty annoyed that Cassius was damaging the tank.

Yes I am aware the tank does damage, but it only does like 15 brute (correct me if I'm wrong). This is easily fixed with a simple dose of bicard, trauma kit, heck even if ointment and bandages. Getting rammed by the tank does very minuscule damage and is extremely easy to take care of. On the other hand, the tank takes a long ass time to repair. When you were done shooting the tank (totally) you had done an estimate of 5% to each attachment. Lets breakdown how much time that would take to repair them all. First I have to get out the tank, which takes like 5-10 seconds, and then I have to crowbar everything off. Luckily you can do all of this at once but it takes upwards to an entire minute. Then I have to spam weld every attachment until they're all at 100%, THEN I'd have to individually put on every part. This entire process takes several minutes compared to the 15 brute damage a single tank ram does. Although I didn't go repair after Cassius was done shooting the tank, he added an entire 5% to all tank parts that were completely unnecessary.

Now for me being unverbal and unapologetic, I should not have to ask for somebody to move out from the tank. It makes sounds that are quite obvious. If you see the tank heading your direction it is complete common sense to move out the way. And as for accidentally running people over I do not want to waste time to stop and type out the message of "sorry" or whatever as the tank is already slow as is.

Now for running over you, yes I did it intentionally. Mainly because you had damaged all the hardpoints by shooting the tank multiple times with your pulse rifle. Afterwards you attempted to plant C4... While I seldom play TC, I hardly think I am outright bald nor do I consistently go out of my way to be an asshole to or grief random people. Most of the time I am an asshole to people who are an asshole to me, hence why I rammed you.

I do not see the logic, though, in the escalation of this chain of events

>Tank runs some people over, does barely any damage
>Must shoot tank to save marines!
>The tank ran me over? HOW COULD THEY DO THIS? GRIEFFFF!!!!!
>Unga must blow up tank with c4

Anyways, the rest of the people I ran over were either because they wouldn't move or ran right in front of me while I was driving. I only specifically remember the first two marines I ran over after we landed.

I do not play tank driver so I can run over people, I do not play tank driver so I can grief people. I am 100% certain that everybody I ran over didn't have their entire round ruined by me doing a little brute damage to them nor did anybody die to me running them over through third party means.

[Vispainius]

Alrighty here we go

So first thing: the mortar. It was a complete and honest mistake. There were many people in front of the tank, all resting. The crate was underneath all of the people who were resting on top of it. When the marine asked me to run them over I was extra careful to make sure nobody was standing directly in front, unfortunately I missed the mortar crate. It is also possible that it was on top the attachment point at the rear end of the Alamo. I do not remember or know if it was because I completely missed it in the first place.

Now I remember intentionally running over two people: some marine in FOB and Cassius

I ran over the random marine because I wanted to leave the FOB and this marine wouldn't move so I went ahead and ran him over, evidently there was a window in the way so I started asking (I do seem to use caps lock a lot) for somebody to deconstruct it. I should also mention that right after we landed, Cassius had unloaded his gun (and also hit me a bunch, didn't notice that though) multiple times into me, the bulk of it when I ran over that first marine near the window frame. Now if I remember correctly he was a charlie engineer, instead of just deconstructing the window he decides to shoot the tank with multiple pulse rifle bursts. Eventually another engineer came and that was the end of that situation, although I left it pretty annoyed that Cassius was damaging the tank.

Yes I am aware the tank does damage, but it only does like 15 brute (correct me if I'm wrong). This is easily fixed with a simple dose of bicard, trauma kit, heck even if ointment and bandages. Getting rammed by the tank does very minuscule damage and is extremely easy to take care of. On the other hand, the tank takes a long ass time to repair. When you were done shooting the tank (totally) you had done an estimate of 5% to each attachment. Lets breakdown how much time that would take to repair them all. First I have to get out the tank, which takes like 5-10 seconds, and then I have to crowbar everything off. Luckily you can do all of this at once but it takes upwards to an entire minute. Then I have to spam weld every attachment until they're all at 100%, THEN I'd have to individually put on every part. This entire process takes several minutes compared to the 15 brute damage a single tank ram does. Although I didn't go repair after Cassius was done shooting the tank, he added an entire 5% to all tank parts that were completely unnecessary.

Now for me being unverbal and unapologetic, I should not have to ask for somebody to move out from the tank. It makes sounds that are quite obvious. If you see the tank heading your direction it is complete common sense to move out the way. And as for accidentally running people over I do not want to waste time to stop and type out the message of "sorry" or whatever as the tank is already slow as is.

Now for running over you, yes I did it intentionally. Mainly because you had damaged all the hardpoints by shooting the tank multiple times with your pulse rifle. Afterwards you attempted to plant C4... While I seldom play TC, I hardly think I am outright bald nor do I consistently go out of my way to be an asshole to or grief random people. Most of the time I am an asshole to people who are an asshole to me, hence why I rammed you.

I do not see the logic, though, in the escalation of this chain of events

>Tank runs some people over, does barely any damage
>Must shoot tank to save marines!
>The tank ran me over? HOW COULD THEY DO THIS? GRIEFFFF!!!!!
>Unga must blow up tank with c4

Anyways, the rest of the people I ran over were either because they wouldn't move or ran right in front of me while I was driving. I only specifically remember the first two marines I ran over after we landed.

I do not play tank driver so I can run over people, I do not play tank driver so I can grief people. I am 100% certain that everybody I ran over didn't have their entire round ruined by me doing a little brute damage to them nor did anybody die to me running them over through third party means.

I'm just going to go out and say this bluntly. A good amount of what you just said is bullshit. You directly lied to the admins after asked how many you ran over.
Since then, you haven't changed that theme of lying about most of what you say.
What I say, is the truth. Yes I did all the stuff mentioned. And yes. I said that in the report. Fact is though, no action was taken against me by the mods because the fact is: You made it a issue IC and I responded a reasonable way to how one might respond if they see a irresponsible tank driver running over other people (even if it won't kill them) just because they can. But that's not why I'm writing this report. No, I'm writing this report because I believe this goes beyond IC issues when regarding your conduct. I tried seeing what you thought about your own actions and it sounded like you were pleased with them. This and other reasons I've gone into, has lead me to believe you are trying to subtle grief with the excuse that, "It doesn't do much damage so chill out bro." Its not the amount damage. Its the intent and reasoning behind it.

For example:
You claim you only remember 2 marines run over. Yet, I'm sure it can be found in the logs that other people were saying how you ran over multiple people both during the DS pre launch and much, much later over the course of the round.

You admit you ran over the marines in the DS based on a random person's statement yet you claim you only ran over 2 people. That's an outright lie and you know it. There is three tiles in front of your tank. Each of those three tiles had a AT LEAST 1 person not including me who was standing. What you don't admit is that you KNEW it was multiple people, at least 3 in front of the tank + more who were standing. Your statement that you believe you only ran over 2 people is directly countered by your own later statement that you couldn't tell the mortar was there because there was so many people in the piles of marines that you ran over. In short. You lied about knowing you ran over only 2 people and then tried to claim you couldn't tell the mortar or I was there... because of so many people. Its amazing. You literally are admitting that you ran over more than 2 people while saying at the same time that you only remember 2 people being run over.

Personally, I remember being run over eh, 2, I think 3 times by you. I say possibly 3 because I remember getting back up after the tank hit me only to fall back down again due to the tank.

You want to claim you're in the right because it does little damage, but the fact is:
1. It does damage and it accumulates when you run over people multiple times.
2. You do it a lot.
3. You do it when its unnecessary
4. You do it because you see a reason for it you think you can get away with.
5. You do it because you want to.
6. You hold no regard for other players both during and after the fact.

This all leads me to believe after looking at your actions that you genuinely don't give a shit and that you are intentionally griefing. Sadly, the logs can't prove or show how much. You say you don't have the time to say sorry. But what about on the DS? You had plenty of time and you never did so. You never even said it was a mistake, lie or not. And here, you admit it was goaded. Surely you can see you were in the wrong there and started this by running over 4 + marines.

The way I saw it was, the tank is a deadly weapon and you ran over marines with it unnecessarily on a whim. If you want to talk about escalation. Explain how escalation accounts for you running over random people in the dropship due to a third party saying "Run me over" validates you � running over � a bunch of players. Even the CO had to get involved because of how much chaos you created due to that action.

I can understand why you ran over me later. But it doesn't remove the fact that you started it all with the initial, misguided stupidity that was running over all those marines and continuing to run over marines as the operation progressed.

Then there's other logs I remember as a ghost where a individual mentioned, long after I stopped my bullshit, that you kept it up your own shittery. Eventually running over another 15+ people according them.

The key reason why I made this report knowing there is no evidence? Because you have no sense of contrition about any of the situation and it is something you have repeatedly done in other rounds I have seen you in. Running over people with the tank now and then is one thing. Running over people left and right a whole other thing. In your case, I don't think it stems from just incompetence. I truly think it is based in grief after having seen both how you play and how you act after the fact about it.

[Asian_047]

I'm just going to go out and say this bluntly. A good amount of what you just said is bullshit. You directly lied to the admins after asked how many you ran over.
Since then, you haven't changed that theme of lying about most of what you say.
What I say, is the truth. Yes I did all the stuff mentioned. And yes. I said that in the report. Fact is though, no action was taken against me by the mods because the fact is: You made it a issue IC and I responded a reasonable way to how one might respond if they see a irresponsible tank driver running over other people (even if it won't kill them) just because they can. But that's not why I'm writing this report. No, I'm writing this report because I believe this goes beyond IC issues when regarding your conduct. I tried seeing what you thought about your own actions and it sounded like you were pleased with them. This and other reasons I've gone into, has lead me to believe you are trying to subtle grief with the excuse that, "It doesn't do much damage so chill out bro." Its not the amount damage. Its the intent and reasoning behind it.

For example:
You claim you only remember 2 marines run over. Yet, I'm sure it can be found in the logs that other people were saying how you ran over multiple people both during the DS pre launch and much, much later over the course of the round.

You admit you ran over the marines in the DS based on a random person's statement yet you claim you only ran over 2 people. That's an outright lie and you know it. There is three tiles in front of your tank. Each of those three tiles had a AT LEAST 1 person not including me who was standing. What you don't admit is that you KNEW it was multiple people, at least 3 in front of the tank + more who were standing. Your statement that you believe you only ran over 2 people is directly countered by your own later statement that you couldn't tell the mortar was there because there was so many people in the piles of marines that you ran over. In short. You lied about knowing you ran over only 2 people and then tried to claim you couldn't tell the mortar or I was there... because of so many people. Its amazing. You literally are admitting that you ran over more than 2 people while saying at the same time that you only remember 2 people being run over.

Personally, I remember being run over eh, 2, I think 3 times by you. I say possibly 3 because I remember getting back up after the tank hit me only to fall back down again due to the tank.

I believe you may have slightly misinterpreted what I meant by "I only remember running over 2 people." I only remember running 2 people over specifically, I definitely ran over other people, I just don't remember specific situations in which they happened. I never once said "I only ran over two people."

Heck I even said this

Anyways, the rest of the people I ran over were either because they wouldn't move or ran right in front of me while I was driving. I only specifically remember the first two marines I ran over after we landed.

So I was not contradicting anything, it was a simple misunderstanding.

You want to claim you're in the right because it does little damage, but the fact is:
1. It does damage and it accumulates when you run over people multiple times.
2. You do it a lot.
3. You do it when its unnecessary
4. You do it because you see a reason for it you think you can get away with.
5. You do it because you want to.
6. You hold no regard for other players both during and after the fact.

You can choose to believe I intentionally grief people, you can choose to believe I get enjoyment from a supposed "powertrip," I can't do much to change your mind on that.

The two main reason people got ran over by me was because they wouldn't move or they got in the way while I was moving. The latter situation just simply cannot be avoided. The former situation is honestly entirely the victims fault.

I'm sure many people who interact with me will vouch that I don't "grief" anybody for no reason.

I should mention again:

100% of the people I ran over did not have their entire round ruined by me running them over. They did not die by me running them over NOR did anything else kill them as a result of me running them over

I remember a certain situation before my gunner went SSD. We were in the canteen, I believe, we had just taken it back from the xenos. I was pushing outwards to the central ring and at some point a marine got hugged from an egg. I specifically remember staying there and guarding that marine and trying to get other marines to grab them. I asked multiple times in chat and on comms. If I was such the griefer that you believe I am, then I would have simply left them there and not have given a single fuck.

If an admin can find the logs of this that would be great. I am not sure at what point in time it happened, only that it happened before the gunner had to go SSD.

[Vispainius]

I believe you may have slightly misinterpreted what I meant by "I only remember running over 2 people." I only remember running 2 people over specifically, I definitely ran over other people, I just don't remember specific situations in which they happened. I never once said "I only ran over two people."

Heck I even said this



So I was not contradicting anything, it was a simple misunderstanding.



You can choose to believe I intentionally grief people, you can choose to believe I get enjoyment from a supposed "powertrip," I can't do much to change your mind on that.

The two main reason people got ran over by me was because they wouldn't move or they got in the way while I was moving. The latter situation just simply cannot be avoided. The former situation is honestly entirely the victims fault.

I'm sure many people who interact with me will vouch that I don't "grief" anybody for no reason.

I should mention again:

100% of the people I ran over did not have their entire round ruined by me running them over. They did not die by me running them over NOR did anything else kill them as a result of me running them over

I remember a certain situation before my gunner went SSD. We were in the canteen, I believe, we had just taken it back from the xenos. I was pushing outwards to the central ring and at some point a marine got hugged from an egg. I specifically remember staying there and guarding that marine and trying to get other marines to grab them. I asked multiple times in chat and on comms. If I was such the griefer that you believe I am, then I would have simply left them there and not have given a single fuck.

If an admin can find the logs of this that would be great. I am not sure at what point in time it happened, only that it happened before the gunner had to go SSD.

I highly doubt this report will get anywhere and I knew that when I filed it.

The point behind it is twofold.

1. I do think, on a personal level myself, that you enjoyed and purposely were running over people. I base that believe on what I saw in the dropship pre-drop along with the reason why it happened and the subsequent cases as well as what I've been told happened after I left you alone: namely that it still continued. I can absolutely get why you ran over me. What I can't is the reasoning behind why you started the mess and the subsequent sights I saw and reports from other players I heard that indicated shitty, seeming grief behavior. It doesn't help that you didn't even TRY to refute the behavior or defend your actions. Rather, you seemed rather ok with it, in fact, uncaring about the whole thing. And not just that, but the way you acted itself certainly didn't indicate to me you were being serious and trying to 'make peace' after the fact at all. All that well, it led me to believe you were griefing.

You may have changed or hell, may not have intended to, but the fact remains from my perspective that you showed an ill intent hence this report.
At the very least, I hope you take away that perhaps, just perhaps, you understand how it looks from other players when you display no contrition during or after the fact. Running over someone now and then happens. Running over, from my perspective and from what I heard, a lot of people with not only not contrition, but seemingly pleasure during and after the fact indicates that to me it was griefing intent.

2. I think its an unlooked at issue that the tank hitting people doesn't log.

I'm not sure there's much we can discuss regarding this incident furthermore so I will be waiting for judgement. I don't believe we can move further ourselves via discussion that won't devolve into repeated arguments and complaints by both parties.

Have a good day.

[Grimcad]

First of all I'd like to apologize for this staying up so long. I had a bout of bad health that culminated in surgery and a few days at the hospital. But I am back now and am addressing this now.

Asian_047 this is griefing, pure and simple. Sometime people get run over, its true. And its an accident in a lot of cases, and we wont take action for those incidents. But right here you are showing very clearly, in your own words that it is not and accident and that you are doing it because marines dont get out of the way. Part of the challenge of TC is having to weave your way though people, not just running them over at a whim. The fact that TheSoldierLLJK accidentally found similar logs of the situation in question where you are doing the exact same thing, running over marines intentionally is really the thing that takes the cake here for me. It shows that you do it frequently, and without any remorse. You just dont care if you run over marines in a round. Just because no one died because you ran them over is no kind of excuse. If someone stabs you with a pen a few times but doesn't kill you, its still grief. I will be banning your from Tank Crew for this.

Vispain your reaction to this happening was excessive. I count 31 Punches and 27 Shots. The entire problem could have been nipped in the bud very early if you had brought it to a Moderators attention instead of just blasting the tank. I will be adding a note to your account linking this account and your proclivity to blast the tank.