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Thread: Remove Whitelists

  1. #11
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    If it's just preventing new players that are mechanically ignorant, then a timelock would suffice like for example if Synth: Unlock after 4 hour MT+squad engineer, 4 hour Doctor, 4 hour SO, etc. like that.

    As for low RP, well bleh. It's a bit hard to measure I guess.

  2. #12
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    Stop salting about whitelisted roles, they are whitelisted to minimize the problems with them.

    -1

  3. #13
    Whitelisted Synthetic Kineem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatik View Post
    original post
    - You can create new characters after you apply for the whitelist. The character you apply with can be changed, you're just applying with that character for the whitelist and then once you have the whitelist you can play different characters; predator and synth will require you to talk to council beforehand, however.

    - Staff aren't councilmen. They don't get to deal with whitelist issues. There have been numerous instances where moderators bitch and moan about "LRP Captains" and would punish them if they could, to the point of harassing them in modPMs (feel free to check Imheretohelp's current staff report), even though they didn't actually break a rule of the whitelist. That is why they are not capable of handling whitelist issues.

    Staff applied to handle server rule breaks, not whitelist rule breaks, and so they aren't capable of handling issues related to whitelists. It's the equivalent of expecting moderators to step in and deal with an IC issue. Staff aren't there to aheal you and hold your hand if you get FF'd to death on the frontlines, they're there to ensure that FF wasn't intentional grief in the FOB.

    I don't know where you got the concept that it is upon the players to provide all evidence for a whitelist rule break. The whole point of a player report is so that staff can pull up logs on behalf of the council. You are not expected to have every single log as a player. If you think you've been cheated, whether or not you have evidence, you just make a player report and it can be investigated on your behalf. The council of that particular whitelist will decide if it constituted a rulebreak and what the punishment should be once staff pulls the logs.

    - Applications already do a great job of weeding out players. You need to put in a small amount of effort to write a short story and you have to have been playing for a few months, otherwise you won't get accepted. The whole point of the whitelist is to keep out trouble players with terrible note history and it does its job decently- it doesn't really deny people who are shit at RPing, are terrible at the game, or have bad attitudes. It keeps people with zero clue what the fuck they're doing out of the role, it keeps griefers and no-RP players out, and it prevents shitlers from them. It prevents the worst of the worst from getting access to the role.

    I don't agree with you when you state there are whitelisted players who are toxic or elitist because of their whitelist. There are people who are a little toxic, granted, but it has nothing to do with their whitelist. There isn't a single person who has it in mind that because they are whitelisted they are this god-figure that cannot be touched, because if they did, they'd be breaking rules and getting swiftly removed.

    - It's not really a big deal if whitelisted roles behave a little poorly so long as they're not breaking the rules or acting no-RP. The second complaint in the last paragraph just doesn't matter.



    There are inherent problems with whitelists but these problems are all minor in comparison to what would happen if you let shitlers and baldies get their hands on whitelisted roles. There are roles that are held to OOC standards, certainly, but these roles are either vital to gameplay and thus cannot feasibly be locked behind an exclusive list (such as XO) or don't have any real impact or power at all (such as SO, MP, or CMP). Removing whitelists provides zero benefit to the server. It lets people who are too lazy to write a few paragraphs play an important role and gives people greater potential to grief by taking roles that influence the round and then shit all over other players.
    Chance Warden

    Duke the Synthetic, Karr'Thesh the Yautja
    ex-synth councilman and retired moderator

  4. #14
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    I agree that backstories are a useless feature often introduced to applications then kept forever due to the sunk cost fallacy. But at the same time, whitelists in some form are absolutely necessary. There must be a vetting process to prevent bald and toxic players from entering those game changing positions.

  5. #15
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    I am going to approach some concerns here with some logic and reasoning.

    Whitelists are absolute necessary.

    CO: CO and XO are similar, but not the same. CO has access to more permissions than the XO just to start off. The big picture is that when a round has a CO, you know that the marines are going to have a decent leader because that person went through the application process, received community support, and was accepted by the elders of this community. You KNOW that. Now if a round has only an XO, you don't know if they're going to be good, or going to be bald. It's a wildcard. Imagine if the whitelist was removed; the people who earned the whitelist would be competing with just any old player who wasn't good enough for the role. This gap that is created allows for more competent people to be able to lead their own operation, where they are almost guaranteed the whitellist if they set for it in game. Without it, the marines have to roll the dice for their entire round.

    Synth: Synthetics are one of the most important roles. Not only are they a third hand for any department, but they also open up this entire new aspect of RP. They create situations that wouldn't normally be seen and they typically create interesting dialogue between players. When there is a synth, you KNOW that you can get help in a department. When just any player can RTD for the role, there isn't a guarantee that said person will be able to assist you at all. Players who have EARNED their whitelist show that they are an exceptional support player by using and exploring with this whitelist.

    Predator: Predators give experienced and competent players the ability to play a very unique role. When you see a predator, you can almost always expect them to be able to follow the guidelines and create another roleplay experience. If anyone had access, just like the others, chaos would ensue when any old bald player throws an explosive into a crowd of marines for no reason.

    Here's one way to look at it:
    CO WL -> earned by experienced leadership oriented players. They can show off the whitelist they earned while ensuring a positive round for the average players.
    SN WL -> earned by experienced support oriented players. They can show off their knowledge in support and sway the tides of rounds.
    PR WL -> earned by experienced combat oriented players. They can use this unique role to give the marines another alien to worry about, while also following guidelines to make it fun.

    By the way,
    Character stories aren't for no reason. They're required because they show how literate, competent, understanding of the role, and understanding of the rules you are. Don't want to sit down for a few hours and make a story? Then don't apply. It's simple. The way it's set up now is really good and I'm confident that anyone complaining is either too lazy, too much of a troublemaker, or too immature to earn their own whitelist.

    Whitelists are a healthy way to brag your experience, but also making the rounds better for everyone.
    Upset that a predator killed you? Move on. There's always another round.

  6. #16
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    I could see removing the whitelist for commanders since after the 'briefing' they are more or less completely useless outside of any fun RP gimmicks.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatik View Post
    yet we don't get tons of comdom XOs.

    It's the opposite, really; I prefer many of the XOs we get, like Goosen Dagen and Finnian Cottier, over COs like Donald Weinstein.
    1: Play more. Happens a lot. I trust no XO.

    2: Those are CO whitelisted XOs.

  8. #18
    Yautja Council Member Sora9567's Avatar
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    Eh, I try to make opportunities for other players to have fun without taking them out of the round. If marines want to interact with me, they can come to my boxing arena for fistfights. As for xenos, they can go scuttle off because I know how they operate.
    Usually playing as Darwin 'D.J.' Jefferson, PFC (Private: Flare Carrier), or Smartgunner almost always out of ammo. Occasionally an RO who yearns for death, dealing with rampant jackassery of his coworkers.
    Against my better judgement I decided to start making Youtube videos involving Colonial Marines. Channel

    Yautja Council member as of March 17th - Now

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishopil View Post
    Character stories aren't for no reason. They're required because they show how literate, competent, understanding of the role, and understanding of the rules you are.
    >they show how literate you are
    You can easily tell how literate someone is by the rest of their application, you don't need a TL;DR story to find that out. Even the "Why do you want to play this role?" section is usually long enough to see if they can last three paragraphs without fucking up their grammar/spelling.

    >they show how competent you are
    You mean at how they understand what they're supposed to be doing? How does a CO application for example with a story saying "Joe Sixpack was recruited into the corps at an early age and nearly failed his physical requirement, but worked his way up and got lots of medals and trained hard to become a competent officer to avenge his fallen brother" translate into how well the commander knows where marines need to be on the ground, when to deal out BEs, when to send MPs onto the ground, etc?

    >they show how you understand the role
    Obviously not in any in-game sense since there's nothing about your character's origins that tells me about how quickly you can preform surgery as a synth, I assume you mean from a lore sense but again, someone's understanding of the lore can be established with questions about aspects of the role and how they would act rather than a 500 page Aliens fanfic.
    Last edited by OestErreich; 05-09-2019 at 02:02 AM.

  10. #20
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    No one can argue COs having whitelist when queen doesnt have whitelist. Queen has way more influence and ability to ruin rounds. It makes 0 sense for COs to be whitelisted if queens arent.

    Synth and predators actually have real reasons to be whitelisted though.

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