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Thread: Redo Squad SL Req

  1. #1
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    Redo Squad SL Req

    Basically what the title says.

    Redo the Squad SL Req. There is little to no time to properly outfit your marines as a SL within the allotment of anywhere from 0-20 minutes, let alone 15.
    The issue is only more prevalent the more attachments you hand out. I tried handing out attachments and 'stuff' in 3's to Delta and barely got through a couple marines in 15 minutes.

    Resorting to just saying 'Fuck it', and having to mass dispense a bunch of random shit isn't Squad Prep Req. Its a waste of time, effort for all involved and poor map/game design.
    Either make it return to the old Req way, or redo it entirely so you have a dedicated Pfc or something do it (at least, along with the SL if not alone).

  2. #2
    Whitelisted Synthetic Kineem's Avatar
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    No offense, that's a sign you're slow at handing supplies out rather than squad req's fault

    Before squad req even existed, as synth I had no troubles clearing out req lines before 12:20. If you can't handle a single squad of marines (not counting those who prefer to go to normal req) by 12:15, I don't know what to say. If you don't want to do it or are worried about missing first drop, you can just ask command to assign another PFC as aSL until first deployment

    Here's a tip. Handing out fewer supplies won't make you any faster- it'll actually slow the line down as people bitch at you for not giving them their orders or they're forced to retype a new order out to fit your standards. Any time you might save by not giving them everything they want is wasted with having to type extra shit, and on top of that you lower the combat effectiveness of your men by refusing them supplies



    i agree that squad reqs are poorly designed because getting in and out is a hassle though
    Chance Warden

    Duke the Synthetic, Karr'Thesh the Yautja
    ex-synth councilman and retired moderator

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kineem View Post
    No offense, that's a sign you're slow at handing supplies out rather than squad req's fault

    Before squad req even existed, as synth I had no troubles clearing out req lines before 12:20. If you can't handle a single squad of marines (not counting those who prefer to go to normal req) by 12:15, I don't know what to say. If you don't want to do it or are worried about missing first drop, you can just ask command to assign another PFC as aSL until first deployment

    Here's a tip. Handing out fewer supplies won't make you any faster- it'll actually slow the line down as people bitch at you for not giving them their orders or they're forced to retype a new order out to fit your standards. Any time you might save by not giving them everything they want is wasted with having to type extra shit, and on top of that you lower the combat effectiveness of your men by refusing them supplies



    i agree that squad reqs are poorly designed because getting in and out is a hassle though

    No offense, but its a shit design and resorting to personal attacks on my ability to do Req duties is a falsehood as the role I'm talking about here doing Squad Req is NOT Cargo Tech (CT) or Synthetic. It's SL. You clearly missed that. Congratulations.

    Also, I seem to have double posted this crap. Whatever.

    Handing out more supplies WILL slow down the line. So you know what I do? I've done it with CT too and it works. It's called refusing their stupid, ten list order and giving them the first three then ordering their dumb ass along. They usually listen and if they don't, well that's too bad for 'em. They aren't changing my mind and they usually end up dropping it.

    Thing is, you are right in a way. I'm not a synth though. I have other duties beyond go single-mindedly do squad req. I have to organize my squad pre-drop, communicate to 'em, talk to command, be at briefing, and get my own loadout situated.

    I don't have time to put aside only 5 minutes for all that as I attempt to single-mindedly do Squad Req like a SYNTH. A SYNTH like you describe you've done is WHOLLY devoted to the task. That, and WHY do you THINK you were DOING the SQUAD REQ PREP SHIT? The SL couldn't handle it!
    It's a huge presumption to believe they can.

    I think the current status of what SLs do shows that.
    Most just end up throwing the shit of req all over and dispensing all of it to get it all out and do other more important, self related shit. Why? Because the process digs too much into their own time. That's not Req, that's a come and take free for all. Now, what I'm saying is either redo the fuckin' Squad Req to where it really IS a Free-for-all come and take what you want... or make it easier on the SLs.

    I have experience with CT. I've had no issue handling attachments or orders. It's interesting you resort to personal attacks on my own ability but once again. It falls on bad game design. In this case, you aren't just a CT (WHO I MAY REMIND) dedicated to Req or a Synth. You're also a SL dedicated to a full squad and all associated duties.

    You are trying to prove me wrong by giving examples of Synths and Cargo Techs doing REGULAR Requisitions. I'm not talking about those shipside roles of Synths or Cargo Techs doing that job.

    I'm talking about the SL, the one the shitty job has been placed on, doing Squad Requisitions. A different. Separate situation.

    So again, either redo the Squad Req to where it IS a Free-For-All Take-And-Go or to where the SLs have some built-in assistance so that the SLs be given more time to Roleplay, Interact with their squad for coordination purposes, setup their OWN loadout, and interact with Command among other things.


    As it stands, the SL is really just a glorified, shitty, overwhelmed person handling their full squad's enormous, outrageous orders of random shit for the first 15-20 minutes whereupon they turn into this, shockingly, active person on comms. Its stupid and annoying. Hell, it devalues not just SLs but the role as those first minutes really can be important to endear yourself to, or become a part of a squad.

    As for your experience with this. I don't believe you have any currently. None relevant at least to SL Squad Req. In my honestly opinion, CT experience only goes so far here.... and really that doesn't even matter at the end of the day as a SL is *not* a CT. He's a Squad Leader. You talk of your experience as a synth with normal req Chance. We aren't talking that here. This is a different animal. You know me, but you probably don't know I've played CT enough to be able to talk on this. I'm telling you, play SL and you MIGHT just see what I mean. Try RPing with the squad, interacting with Command, handing out all the attachments ( and I mean all of them, just like the BS orders I was given earlier by Delta - 10 orders is ridiculous even for a CT) and finishing with your loadout and everything all setup for Briefing. And get fireteams set for the hell of it. And do it by 12:20. 12:15 if you're feeling ballsy as theoretically we should all be able to deploy by 12:15.
    Last edited by Vispainius; 05-13-2019 at 12:31 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Steelpoint's Avatar
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    A free for all take and go would be a horrible way to go.

    I'd argue to grant the Spec access to the req since, from my experience, Specs generally have more free time. That could help the SL in the duties, and specs are guaranteed to spawn in.
    This is war, survival is your responsibility
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    Whitelisted Synthetic Kineem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vispainius View Post
    No offense, but its a shit design and resorting to personal attacks on my ability to do Req duties is a falsehood as the role I'm talking about here doing Squad Req is NOT Cargo Tech (CT) or Synthetic. It's SL. You clearly missed that. Congratulations.
    CT/synth at the req line and SL at squad req is functionally the same thing, except SL is easier because all of the vendors are right beside each other

    Quote Originally Posted by Vispainius View Post
    As for your experience with this. I don't believe you have any currently. None relevant at least to SL Squad Req. In my honestly opinion, CT experience only goes so far here.... and really that doesn't even matter at the end of the day as a SL is *not* a CT. He's a Squad Leader. You talk of your experience as a synth with normal req Chance. We aren't talking that here. This is a different animal. You know me, but you probably don't know I've played CT enough to be able to talk on this. I'm telling you, play SL and you MIGHT just see what I mean. Try RPing with the squad, interacting with Command, handing out all the attachments ( and I mean all of them, just like the BS orders I was given earlier by Delta - 10 orders is ridiculous even for a CT) and finishing with your loadout and everything all setup for Briefing. And get fireteams set for the hell of it. And do it by 12:20. 12:15 if you're feeling ballsy as theoretically we should all be able to deploy by 12:15.
    i've played with it enough as SL, as aSL, and as PFC to know what i'm talking about


    i don't think this conversation is worth continuing if you got this triggered over it though
    Chance Warden

    Duke the Synthetic, Karr'Thesh the Yautja
    ex-synth councilman and retired moderator

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kineem View Post
    CT/synth at the req line and SL at squad req is functionally the same thing, except SL is easier because all of the vendors are right beside each other



    i've played with it enough as SL, as aSL, and as PFC to know what i'm talking about


    i don't think this conversation is worth continuing if you got this triggered over it though
    Again with the personal attacks and belief it is the same thing when it is clearly not the same situation. I can't clarify it any better.

    CT/Synth = Dedicated Req role
    SL = Dedicated Combat Leadership Role

    Hmm. Who is better suited to req duties. Who has different duties? Who has *more* duties? Should be easy questions Chance.

    I think you are still not evaluating the fact that they are different roles. The fact you suggest going through with more stuff ordered, even ridiculous amounts of stuff, really just tells me you don't know what you are talking about.

    Again, you are making the mistake of acting like the SL's *only* duty is dealing with the squad req. Now, I can understand from your perspective and reputation, that may seem the case, but its not. The SL has other duties then playing CT for the first 20 minutes of their round. And certainly needs more time than a pitifully small 2-5 minutes to get not only everything setup on their end but deal with other duties. Hell, its rather amazing. Even regular Pfcs oft' take more than 5-10 minutes to get everything ready with the usual, quickest time for them to be ready being 12:15. Now, imagine the SL. It's a lil' bit worse.

    While I have only played SL a few times with the Squad Reqs recently, I shall try SL again with this to test soon enough if, perhaps, I am being more salty than I should be. I doubt my opinion will change.

  7. #7
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    Why not just grant NCO's and SL the ability to use the machines? It would help in case there's no SL, or Spec to help SL, which happens sometimes. It's very rare for no NCO's to be present in a squad. Even an Engineer like myself usually has free time to do it. All we usually ever do is grab the extra materials in the Squad Req room and then dip.

    Edit: you could also edit the layout of the Squad Req room, there's room just about for another Req Window if you lay it out right. I'll post a possible layout if it helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafs View Post
    Why not just grant NCO's and SL the ability to use the machines? It would help in case there's no SL, or Spec to help SL, which happens sometimes. It's very rare for no NCO's to be present in a squad. Even an Engineer like myself usually has free time to do it. All we usually ever do is grab the extra materials in the Squad Req room and then dip.
    That's part of what I'm really trying to suggest here. Having one bloke, especially the SL, responsible for this job is too demanding on their time and devalues them in so many ways. From leadership to just good ol', fun RP.

    In a way, Chance is right. You probably could get it done in 20 minutes... barely and only after cutting corners. I highly doubt I could do 15 people's 10 thing orders as a SL in under 15 minutes (provided I take out a nice allotment of 5 minutes, a mere 5, for my own loadout and gear and other stuff like attachments)
    But you'd have to sacrifice most of your freedom of loadout choice, RP with the squad and crew, effort to communicate with Command. As a result, a byproduct if you will, I feel like SLs are subsequently losing their sense of self where they become overglorified req bois for the first 20 minutes of the round, listen to briefing for 5, then deploy, say a few words of leadership and orders and lead their marines all without ever building a bond or anything really at all. Even a sense of trust is found lacking.


    Most importantly. I'm talking high pop to medium pop here too.
    Overall, personally, just to clear up *any* confusion:
    I personally believe in redoing the squad prep to add more NCO like figures who can assist such as the SG or/and Engineers or/and Spec possibly. That and possibly making the 'line' thing that happens setup better so people don't crowd as much. So as much a physical redesign as a organizational. At the least, that should alleviate most concerns that revolve really, at the end of the day, around time.
    Last edited by Vispainius; 05-13-2019 at 01:22 AM.

  9. #9
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    Here's my official suggestion on the Git, maybe this could help?

    https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/6570

  10. #10
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    Vispanius is entirely right. Vending everything en-masse and turning prep into a FFA is the only way to outfit your squad in time for brief as well as yourself, as well as letting later joins get kit. It�s a silly mechanic that puts yet another job on the SL�s shoulders and serves no purpose. Remove it, and just add another window and another CT role at Req.

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