User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Big 5 discussion 1. Neuro-Armor-Triangle.

  1. #1
    Senior Dev
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    197
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Big 5 discussion 1. Neuro-Armor-Triangle.

    We would agree that armor, and neuro-toxin aren't very fun to play with in their present state.
    We fully intend to rework both of these systems in respect to a third mechanic, tackling.
    Armor will have weight, the heavier your armor the most susceptible you are to neuro-toxin, but the more resistant to pounces and lunges.
    The opposite is true for light armor. While not truly a perfect balance triangle (Neuro and Pounce do not strictly interact), the name suits it well enough.
    Neurotoxin works like a muscle relaxant, and slows you on each successive hit until you collapse like you presently do.
    What's the progress on this project?
    Presently, we are waiting on a few internal optimization projects before approaching this project.
    Though the framework has been laid down. A good example of this being present armor classes for marines.
    This is a topic to discuss the Neuro Armor Triangle.

  2. #2
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    20
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've been feeling modular plate carriers lately. I honestly don't know if it would work well, but basically having a carrier with armoured plates you can choose and swap out. Be cool if they worked with materials so you could try and use metal (or even wood) from barricades for a shitty but accessible option, while specialised materials from Prep or Req offer better overall stats and more options.

    The materials could have a weight penalty, different protection against different attacks, take up inventory space, and have different amounts of health (ie one that can take alot of hits before being destroyed but is very heavy, or ones that are light and strong but melt under acid very quickly). Would add more tactics for marines, xenos and stress supplies more as now you'd need to supply armour plates to marines.

    Its probably too big and left-of-field of a change I just think its cool to think about.
    Last edited by Bad_Apple; 05-18-2019 at 02:04 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Steelpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    276
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Logically, the idea a guy with less armour/protection is more resistant to a ranged syringe gun/neuro shot than a guy wearing full body armour is insane. Another issue with the idea, realistically, iks muscle relaxants tend to also make you stop breathing, since you kinda need muscles to breathe, hence we have to fit oxygen supplies to people being given relaxants.

    Perhaps rethemeing it as a paralytic instead of muscle relaxant?

    Realism aside, the only concern I see with this system is that it might give MORE power to Light Armour. When you are wearing L-Armour, your speed is your defence, you can usually outrun xenos to avoid being pounced/lunged on, and if you do get pounced on currently, your low armour usually means your going to die or be critically wounded, thus making people in L-Armour more vulnerable to pounces seems very redundant.
    This is war, survival is your responsibility
    Captain Alan Bentway
    Synthetic: Nicholas
    Hunter Kwei Ikthya-de

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    105
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We fully intend to rework both of these systems in respect to a third mechanic, tackling.
    Armor will have weight, the heavier your armor the most susceptible you are to neuro-toxin, but the more resistant to pounces and lunges.
    The opposite is true for light armor. While not truly a perfect balance triangle (Neuro and Pounce do not strictly interact), the name suits it well enough.
    Neurotoxin works like a muscle relaxant, and slows you on each successive hit until you collapse like you presently do.
    There's a big problem with this: Heavy Armour already comes with a significant downside in the form of slowed movement speed. That's the trade off: you give up some of your ability to avoid attacks in order to gain resistance to those attacks. If you make it LESS RESISTANT than Light Armour, Light Armour becomes purely better. Especially if you make it less resistant to Neuro, which is already a massive problem for Heavy Armour users because they lack the speed to get into close combat with neuro users and kill them. The very fact that Heavy Armour users are slow and can't close the distance with a neuro user or dodge the shots already makes them weak to it. If anything, Heavy Armour needs to be MORE resistant to neuro, and the armour tradeoff needs to stay purely as "Heavier Armour Equals Less Move Speed But More Protection From Everything".

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    134
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So basically https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/1888 is being implemented?

    Adding pounce/tackle resistance to the mix is actually an interesting spin on it.

    Light armour:
    +Neuro resistance due to higher speed
    -Tackle/pounce resistance due to being lighter

    Heavy armour:
    +Tackle/pounce resistance due to being heavier
    -Neuro resistance due to having slower speed


    The only problem I really have with this is that neuro (even if 1888 is implemented) seems to be hands down the bigger threat compared with pounce/tackle. I think you'd need to see tackle being really effective against light armour to really incentivize heavy armour. Just throwing some rough numbers out there for my own reference:-


    L Armour: 75% chance to tackle
    M Armour: 40%
    H Armour: 20%


    But I think the deltard in the room here is the fourth option: no armour.

  6. #6
    Senior Dev
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    197
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In the end light armor means you get tackled/pounced easier. So if you wear light armor you are more likely to be captured.
    Where heavy armor will protect you more except from neuro.
    And do not forget that neuro will be reworked as well.


    How to become senior dev.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Madventurer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    268
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by awan View Post
    In the end light armor means you get tackled/pounced easier. So if you wear light armor you are more likely to be captured.
    In my opinion, captures are far more often done by sentinels and spitters simply due to their ability to stunlock people.
    With a rework, light armor would have easy time to just cycle off the front for 30 seconds to avoid the worst effects of neuro. Heavy armor does not have that privilege, and it's harder to escape captures when you're slow by default.
    Tyson 'Bunny' Sphere

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    105
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by awan View Post
    In the end light armor means you get tackled/pounced easier. So if you wear light armor you are more likely to be captured.
    except that the xenos will miss more, because you are faster, and if they miss your increased movespeed can allow you to make it to safety much quicker than someone with heavy armour

  9. #9
    Senior Dev
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    197
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Madventurer View Post
    In my opinion, captures are far more often done by sentinels and spitters simply due to their ability to stunlock people.
    With a rework, light armor would have easy time to just cycle off the front for 30 seconds to avoid the worst effects of neuro. Heavy armor does not have that privilege, and it's harder to escape captures when you're slow by default.
    Quote Originally Posted by dauntasa View Post
    except that the xenos will miss more, because you are faster, and if they miss your increased movespeed can allow you to make it to safety much quicker than someone with heavy armour
    Xeno's have never had a huge issue hitting marines even if they do not walk around with armor or anything like that.
    In the end if you get tackled and stay down longer with light armor that can already be quite a hard issue to deal with.

    In general the tools runners for example have are stronger vs light armor but will likely be unable to take on heavy armor.
    While the reverse would be true for a sent.
    I would say defenders and warriors are somewhere in the middle of that. At least in theory.


    How to become senior dev.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    134
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Neth updated
    -Neurotoxin has perfect accuracy now.
    -Neurotoxin slows on first hit, slows even more on second, shell shocks on third and Knocks Down on 4th. Hits after that keep targets down as long as they are shell shocked.
    -If neurotoxin hits human enough times it will force sleep on them for half a minute. Every time neurotoxin hits human after that, it resets sleep back to half a minute.
    I'm embarrassed it took me so long to actually notice this in the changelog, I got completely distracted by the other stuff. So this has a pretty big impact and I have a few questions to ask and points to cover.

    Last round I played as a sent and acted as a hive guard for a marine with a mag harnessed shotgun and an SG. Both broke out multiple times and I was totally unable to subdue them alone, eventually dying to the SG. At first I thought that al my neuro shots were missing or something, and while I landed 4 in a row the stun from it was not long enough for me to renest the escaped shotgunner before they got back up.

    I think knowing what I know now, namely that shell shock affects wield time, I would of had a much easier time dealing with it so this isn't me salting about the change just covering my initial experience with it.

    My main question is: will neuro spit affected nested hosts and is it OK to neuro spam nested hosts to perma stun them so they can't escape? The main reason I ask this is because if the shotgunner I mentioned earlier had wanted to they could of easily killed themselves at any point, denying xenos the larva, but I could see things being balanced out if you can keep marines locked in shell shock so even when they do escape they have to deal with being slowed and wield delay.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •