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Thread: Unknown - Unlawful BE and Perma over Hat

  1. #1
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    Unknown - Unlawful BE and Perma over Hat

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Hyrulian1

    Your Character Name?
    Carl 'Rush' Mclaran

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Griffith78

    Accused Character Name
    Donald Weinstein

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    2am - 3am (UST)

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Unlawful BE and Perma over Hat (Violation of CO guidelines for BE)

    Description of the incident:
    The CO demanded I take my hat off, when I refused this lawful order like the snowflake I am, instead of having me arrested for insub by the actual MPs he chased me around the alamo personally for 5 minutes, refusing to allow the alamo to launch disarming myself and multiple other marines in his Anti-Hat warpath.

    After returning some disarms I moved away, he told me I was holding up the ship, pulled out his gun and BE'd me.

    He made an announcement claiming I was attacking him. Some of the doctors took me to medbay and revived me, he then returned, demanding I take my hat off, I pointed out that he just killed someone over helmet safety and I flatly refused to obey any order from him, he then had me thrown in the brig for a perma sentence, claiming two counts of insulting an officer, which I never did.


    I think Donald Weinstein's play demonstrates the completely wrong mindset for command staff to have, holding up the round of minute SOP issues, illegal BE's when he doesn't get his way followed by a complete abuse of his position regarding the application of marine law.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    How you would punish the accused:
    Removal of white-list and to have any further application regarding command postions seriously scrutinized.
    Last edited by Hyrulian1; 05-19-2019 at 07:10 AM.

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    Fella,

    I warned you multiple times to take the hat off and put on a helmet. I made an announcement twice regarding it and even ordered you personally twice to do it. The MPs were busy and you took advantage of that by running onto the dropship. As I did not want you undermining my command in front of the men I ordered the DS grounded until you were dealt with. Yes I personally followed you on the DS to ensure you followed my orders, however you decided to be a shitter and refuse. Instead, you were running around the dropship tossing marines infront of me. When I was finally able to get through them and approach you, I was shoved and again you refused my orders. It was almost 12:30 at this point and your actions alone delayed our drop by a large amount. I decided to BE you because you held up the operation, shoved me and refused my orders in the face of the whole platoon multiple times, all the while sewing chaos among the ranks. I dealt with you using the BE as is my right as the captain. I took these actions to ensure the round went on as normal and any obstacle in the way of that was eliminated.

  3. #3
    Ancient Member ChengChan's Avatar
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    I am a witness here and XO. Carl Rush wasn't following orders and trying to disarm the Captain and being a shit in game. Everyone is wearing an helmet. You are making a player report when it was your fault.

    Community Mentor
    11-14-2019

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffith View Post
    I ordered the DS grounded until you were dealt with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Griffith View Post
    It was almost 12:30 at this point and your actions alone delayed our drop by a large amount.
    I hope you see the irony in these two statements, you grounded an entire battalion for 10 minutes for a hat, that's not my actions alone, as CO you decided that a single marine's hat is more important than an entire operation.
    You used your authority as CO to delay the round until you got your way over an individual marine, I was being selfish, and as a squad marine I get to do that, and you get to punish me in accordance with marine law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffith View Post
    I dealt with you using the BE as is my right as the captain. I took these actions to ensure the round went on as normal and any obstacle in the way of that was eliminated.
    The only obstacles were ones you yourself placed, using BE to enforce minute SOP violations isn't your right as CO, you have a multitude of means to deal with SOP violations and BE should be your last possible one. A hat dispute isn't me underminining your command, that's textbook minor disagreement, you don't kill marines over a uniform violation, this should be common sense.

    You've also made other accusations regarding my play this round, I'm not going to bother responding to them unless you have evidence, otherwise I'll write them off as an attempt to smokescreen your own behaviour.
    Last edited by Hyrulian1; 05-19-2019 at 07:34 AM.

  5. #5
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    These reports aren't meant to be a medium for an attack or baseless accusations. I've said my piece and I standby that. I would even go so far as to agree with Cheng that it was your fault this happened. I suggest you get a few more games under your belt and learn how things are around here.

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    Admin Taketheshot56's Avatar
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    The CO Council is looking over this and will get back to it.
    Former member of the Commanders Council, PM me if you want help with making a whitelist or have a question.

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    Senior Member Aceluke's Avatar
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    As I was in this round and told him to make the report, along with spoke to the CO council I will be posting logs for this. I had already looked up many of the logs already so this should be quick.


    ((Round starts with the CO announcing helmets are mandatory))

    [00:37:59]SAY: Griffith78/(Donald Weinstein) has made Command Announcement: Command Announcement - Another distress signal eh?

    Brief will be held at 12:20

    Helmets and attendance are mandatory, thats an order. - Donald Weinstein (Commanding Officer)

    [00:47:25]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : Make sure everyone is wearing a helmet and attends brief

    ((This is the entire interaction between the two players on the dropship, he had ordered the arrest of a marine named Val Lowe just prior to this whole sitution))

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    ((BE announcement that happened directly on the Alamo))

    [01:04:36]SAY: Griffith78/(Donald Weinstein) has made Command Announcement: Command Announcement - Carl has been BEd for refusing to wear a helmet after multiple warnings and then trying to attack me.


    CO finds the marine revived

    [01:07:07]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : Fix him?
    [01:07:10]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : He was BEd
    [01:07:28]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : Why are you revivng him?
    [01:07:55]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : What are you doing?
    [01:08:04]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : Put him in a body bag
    [01:08:11]SAY: Carl 'Rush' Mclaran/Hyrulian1 : H-Hat g-gang rise u-up


    ((CO essentially explains he executed Carl after he got revived and had him brigged. I assume he thought BE's still remove heads when they do not anymore. So he thought it was an 'attempted BE'))

    [01:09:30]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : Thats it
    [01:09:49]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : MP
    [01:09:58]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : A Marine I attempted to BE is still alive in Medbay
    [01:09:59]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : Carl
    [01:10:10]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : See to it that he wears a helmet
    [01:10:13]SAY: Donald Weinstein/Griffith78 : And make him deploy


    (The supposed insulting. Not my place to judge)
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Afterwards he is arrested by an MP who he does directly disrespect

    Spoiler Spoiler:



    ((After this he is in the brig but not perma'd from what I gathered the CO and Carl both talk back and forth where most of this is unneeded but he doesnt appear to ever insult him outside of mention that he doesnt respect his orders as mentioned above as he was executed))
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Aceluke's Avatar
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    I forgot I can also be a witness on this report.. as I was there. Big oof on my part.

    I was quite busy doing other crap at this time so I wasnt completely focused before and after the CO BE'd you. But during it I was there.

    Essentially I saw the CO run onto the dropship and waslk around the dropship, dragging people out of the way and I was even helping move people around by disarming others as the usual dropship memes went. Overall he got next to the marine, said a few things I didnt pay attention to and I heard the BE sound and got highly confused.

    I did notice he dropped his pad and almsot walked off the DS while I just stood out of the way not really caring what happened as I was distracted out of the game.

    Mod wise:

    I honestly was quite surprised that he was BE'd and confused why? So when I answered his ahelp I had to question him myself on why he was BE'd and asked him several times to be sure the reason he was BE'd was actually because he lacked a helmet. This is when I told him to make a report as not wearing a helmet is a rather silly reason to kill someone over in my own view. I also told him to speak to the council about the situation, but in the end did it myself.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrulian1 View Post
    I was being selfish, and as a squad marine I get to do that
    I didn't BE him for simply not wearing a hat. This attitude as shown in the quote really hits the nail on the head. He was knowingly delaying everyone's game because he knew no MPs could get to him on the dropship and that I ordered it grounded until all Marines had helmets. He was literally the only one not wearing a helmet. I didn't just run up and blast his head off for not having a helmet, I gave him every chance to wear a helmet but unfortunately in the end I was put in a position where I had to BE him to ensure the round could go ahead as normal which it did.

    I could have just let him go on his merry way with his boonie hat after he fucked everyone around, but that doesn't set a very good example infront of the troops.
    Last edited by Griffith78; 05-19-2019 at 02:58 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffith View Post
    I didn't BE him for simply not wearing a hat.
    Except that's exactly what you did, you ordered me to wear a helmet, I refused, you attempted to remove me from the alamo personally, I stood my ground, so you BE'd me. Don't act like this wasn't over a hat. This was over a hat. You started the round by making SOP directly tied to your authority and took people wearing the wrong headgear as a personal affront.

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffith View Post
    This attitude as shown in the quote really hits the nail on the head. He was knowingly delaying everyone's game because he knew no MPs could get to him on the dropship and that I ordered it grounded until all Marines had helmets.
    It wasn't about delaying other people's game; I play in delta, I like to shoot aliens. I don't play this game to mess with other people's rounds and its not something I'm known for. I will however, challenge the authority of a CO that decides to put correct headwear as his number 1 priority above that of the entire operation, and the lives of marines. Really, really weird priorities when you place following SOP to the letter above the entire purpose of the USCM.

    Also the last part makes no sense, of course the MP's could've gotten to me, and they had 10 minutes to do so, you had three active MP's on the station, you dealt with this issue personally because this was a power trip for you. I admit that my dispute with you did damage the rounds of others but only insofar as me choosing what clothing to put on my head, I didn't decide to postpone the round until every marine wore helmets, you did that, and I still have no reason why. You decided to make a non-consequential aspect of SOP a station-wide drama, not me. That was the hill you chose to die on at the very START of the round.



    Quote Originally Posted by Griffith View Post
    He was literally the only one not wearing a helmet. I didn't just run up and blast his head off for not having a helmet, I gave him every chance to wear a helmet
    For the guy claiming this isn't about headgear, you sure do mention headgear a lot. The issue isn't that you wordlessly ran up and shot me, the issue is me not wearing the correct headgear on the alamo and me pushing you after you started pushing me isn't grounds for a BE. Putting a bullet into someone's skull for not adequately covering it isn't something any MedRP CO would do. You're more than welcome to punish a marine that isn't wearing the correct uniform but no, it isn't your "right" to BE for a minor SOP violation and an act of insubordination when you attempt to enforce it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffith View Post
    but unfortunately in the end I was put in a position where I had to BE him to ensure the round could go ahead as normal which it did.
    Why did you have to BE me? at no point were you in any danger, I represented no threat to anyone. You had ten minutes to explore your options or get an MP to deal with it, and you didn't do that, why didn't you explore any option that didn't directly involve you getting what YOU wanted from me?

    Killing a harmless marine infront of his squad made the situation far, far worse than it should have been, nobody was calling for mutiny until you BE'd me, and then half the Alamo was. I was even revived immediately after by medical personnel, because they also didn't think you were doing the right thing, and I played the rest of the round wearing that Boonie hat. The round went as normal regardless of my headgear the only thing that changed was your behaviour, which establishes where the problem lies.

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