Staff Report - Grimreaperx15

[Hyrulian1]

Staff Report

Your BYOND Key

Hyrulian1

Your Character Name?

Carl "Bushman" Mclaran

Their BYOND Key

Grimreaperx15

Approximate time and date of the incident

8:50pm

Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken

Enforcement of Rules, Protocol 3.

Description of the incident

Delta got angry over getting FOB duty, MP's started arresting marines, including the SL. After some pushing and tazing occured the CMP dragged two marines into a room, I fired my M39 into one of the windows, the M39 had a BFA and was on Burst Fire mode, which I forgot about, causing three of the bullets to hit the CMP's Chest. I holstered my weapon, climbed onto the window frame, and then was tased and arrested by the CMP.

The scuffle itself involved about 6 delta marines, against 1-3 MPs, and primarily occured south of briefing. No MPs were harmed to my knowledge besides the CMP by my negligence.

Grimreaperx15 hurriedly boinked me, asked me why the CMP was shot, said he had talked to me about this yesterday, and promptly banned me.

The event I was warned for yesterday was for shooting a marine after they shot me when a lurker was near me, I was angry over their recklessness and retalited, when asked about what occured I was honest with Grimreaperx15 and we argued over what was/was not improper escalation. Eventually I agreed that despite him using lethal force on me recklessly, it was an accident, and no harm was intended against me.

This event was then used as evidence against me Improperly escalating against the CMP, despite me never intending to harm the CMP in anyway and none of my behaviour in previous rounds would suggest harming the CMP was intentional, infact our previous discussion established that accidentally shooting someone wasn't escalation at all.

In the wording of the ban grimreaper seems to also be painting this as intentional, which if we do use my behavior yesterday was definitely not the case. I fired at the window once, then holstered my weapon and climbed through the window, if my goal was to harm the CMP, I can easily continue firing, I did not. I fired at something, and accidentally hit the CMP as a result. In our previous discussion I was also very forth coming with shooting the alpha marine, it was intentional and I had reasons as to why, I was also forthcoming with the alpha marine themselves, so if Grimreaper simply believed I was being dishonest none of my previous behavior suggests this to be the case.

My prime issue with this is I believe grimreaperx15 was making a connection with a previous round where I deliberately shot a marine and openly established why, to when I accidentally shot a CMP. I don't believe this is a fair comparison it make one issue was a genuine misunderstanding of how escalation is viewed by staff, and another is about a pure accident. As for the round shenannigans if it really was seen as that egregious then I would've been happy to accept a warning for that, but this has been my first time ever being involved in start of round shenanigans.

TL;DR: Grimreaperx15 used an unrelated event out of context yesterday to escalate the seriousness of an honest mistake without taking the appropriate time to consider context or intent. This wasn't an act of improper escalation, this was a pure mistake.

Evidence

Me shooting the glass window:
https://i.imgur.com/w0bsxUn.png

GrimreaperX15's First message, and my reply: https://i.imgur.com/9G0fFiR.png

Grimreaperx15's comparison to a round yesterday and my incredulous response: https://i.imgur.com/OLOgjB9.png

Ban after my reply: https://i.imgur.com/B1g5lcZ.png

How you would punish the accused

I don't consider this to be very serious, but it is very frustrating to have my history with a mod used against me inappropriately, and to also have the wording of the ban be alot more damning than what actually occured. I think all that should really happen is that Grimreaper has a chat with an admin about what aspects of a player's history are appropriate to use when determining the seriousness of a rulebreak.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Logs:

[Grimreaperx15]

I stand by my actions during the round. You were participating in a riot, which constitutes round-start shenanigans, and as a result shot the CMP. I took into consideration that it was not entirely intentional that you hit the CMP, but you decided to use a firearm on a glass window that someone was standing behind and hurt them as a result. I felt Improper Escalation was the closest term we had to what you did, as well as round-start shenanigans.

You could have broken the window with a melee weapon, or by hitting it with your gun, but instead you decided to fire at it, harming another player. The intent and context were considered, in my mind the intent lowered the severity of punishment required, while the context of rioting at round start over someone being arrested increased the severity. I felt the previous incident was related, as it showed a lack of understanding of the appropriate time to use firearms and thus lethal force.

[Hyrulian1]

I took into consideration that it was not entirely intentional that you hit the CMP

I don't know what you mean my not entirely, it wasn't intentional, this has been pretty clearly argued.

I felt Improper Escalation was the closest term we had to what you did

Reckless or Negligent use of a firearm isn't the same as improperly escalating a fight, we literally discussed this yesterday, which was the entire basis of my retaliation being unjustified, you need to interpret rules consistently.

\
I felt the previous incident was related, as it showed a lack of understanding of the appropriate time to use firearms and thus lethal force.

I think at the very least you can admit the application of Improper Escalation to this situation is not a perfect fit, and shouldn't be related to what occurred yesterday. This also would affect how other mods would view my escalations, which wouldn't be appropriate either.

Improper Escalation isn't about responsible usage of firearms, and reducing specific rules to "gun usage" isn't helpful. I think you're really stretching terms to fit a judgement you rushed into.

[solidfury7]

Hi.

I was the CMP that round, the only MP present during this roundstart shannigan/mutiny/shitshow.

The staff online were very close to applying roundstart shenanigans to yourself and other individuals, and they were likely too, however I argued that I could handle the majority of the minor violations such as interfereing with an arrest ICly.

The issue however began to make a turn for the worst, when your companions set up an M56D turret, pointing inside the brig, aimed at myself, and you proceeded to fire a weapon through the glass, while I was directly in your aim. Your actions were negliable at best and you were already crossing the line of acceptability for many of the staff. What made it worse, you did not even respond to bursting me in the chest, and instead continue to breach the room in actions which already broke server rules. I'll repeat that again, you shot me in the chest and didnt bat an eyelid as you breached the room, most individuals react ICly to these mistakes, or sometimes LOOC.

This issue could have easily been non harmful if you instead resorted to bashing the window with a knife, your gun or any item which could have easily smashed the window.

You unfortunately chose to raise the weapon in both hands and fire at the window/at me and it resulted in multiple rounds hitting me and resorted in my character switching between red health and critical, which resorted me to ahelp because even I, the more lenient individual regarding roundstart shenanigans believed your actions and your squad actions were becoming more and more low roleplay shenanigans (which became apparent in your colleagues cases as the round progressed, as they murdered each other in the cells and sprouted out having autism) with all this situational evidence, your company, your history, the already rule breaking behaviour which was derailing the round and the easily avoidable actions you could have taken to avoid bursting me in the chest, it is not surprising that the staff decided to not give you the benefit of the doubt.

With such a large amount of evidence, situational or otherwise and past notes/interactions related to the situation, it is not surprising that the staff would rule this way. It is entirely possible that your actions were totally accidental, however in situations like this, the staff have to make a judgement call.

All the best.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Unless you are involved in this situation this is not a discussion zone.

[Grimcad]

Accident or not. It happened. You were involved in "a riot" where you were attacking the brig. You chose to go weapons hot to break out the window and shot the CMP. We are not mind readers. We do not know what you intended to happen. All we know is what actually happened, that you attacked the CMP.

Your note is clear and concise. Banned by grimreaperx15|Duration: 180 minutes|Reason: Improper Escalation, player shot the CMP during round start shenanigans involving Delta being put on FOB duty. Player shot out a window the CMP was standing behind, and hit the CMP several times as a result. This ban is for both IE, and roundstart shenanigans. by Grimreaperx15 (Moderator) on Mon, June 3rd of 2019

Resolved. No action taken.