What makes Trijent difficult to "complete"?

[Vicacrov]

Henlo, as a usual disclaimer: this is for my personal curiosity, not a "dev team questionnaire" per se.

I'd like to ask the following, feel free to answer only one or all of them:

- After playing on Trijent for more than five times, do you still get lost? If yes, why?
- What do you think, why is LZ2 a more popular FOB spot than LZ1?
- How did you learn about filtration/sensor tower? Do you think there should be an ingame helper for engineers about these features? If yes, what?
- As a xeno, do you think it's more tedious to collect furhosts on this map than, let's say, on Ice Colony? (To compare two fairly big maps)
- Trijent is so far the only real objectives-based map. Do you think having objectives in general is fun? Or is it too restrictive? Should we have more "capture and hold" objectives or player-chosen places?
- Do you think there is a "superfluous" part of the map and if yes, which side?

I cannot promise any changes but I do want to maintain and improve the map - I love Trijent to bits but it surely has its flaws. I'm just not sure if what I consider a flaw is something that players do as well.

Thank you in advance.

[Imheretohelp]

LZ1 has no obvious Front/Back. To fortify it, you have to make barricades that are 2 to 4 screens apart: which will just end up being melted due to the vast distances between them. This is the primary problem with LZ1.





LZ2 has obvious Front/Backs, so that is why marines choose it. However, LZ2 is still awful to defend for numerous reasons: Tank cannot go anywhere near TComms due to the massive amount of platforms; Tank can only go east through that cargo area thing and the path leading to chapel





Marine gameplay is sending the majority of people to one spot, digging in, and securing a supply line. You cannot split up as marines because you are asking to get poo'd on by xenos who want marines to be isolated. This massive map makes it so supply lines are non-existent because the path back to LZ2 is atrociously long. Marines either have to do MEGA FOB to give marines access to Normandy or they need to do one big rush and crush the Hive in an all-in assault. Combat either happens at FOB or the Labs there is no middle ground to fight over (Tablefort on LV, for example). The size of the map simply makes going back to the Almayer not a viable choice for marines.


The best change you can do for Trijent without an overhaul is to make the LZ's more defensible. Meaning, each LZ should have a front and back that is readily understood for all players and that the LZ should be able to be secured on the entire player's screen, not 2-4 screens away. LZ2 needs to be more open: remove the platforms that restrict tank movement and open up the chokes leading into LZ2 to make it more defensible and shy away from 2 tile warfare (which xenos excel at). Marines are forced to hold those chokes because if they dont, TComms is easily slashed.


This is not going into the problems outside of the LZs, but this would be a good start. The problem is the massive distance between LZs and the Hive. There needs to be a middle ground that marines can grab that allows marines safe travelling between LZ and that spot (LZ1 to Hydro on LV, for example).

The map is simply too big. If there are no xenos in that area then it wont be touched and it is dead space.

[lurkermain]

I still get lost because I can NEVER go in a straight line where I have to be, I always have to go in some longass roundabout way that starts by going in the opposite direction.
There is some lockdown areas that are sometimes opened during the round but it's totally random so I cant count on it and there is nothing memorable about them so I cant even remember if I've seen them opened.
There is no obvious "corridors" like ETA/filtration/Lambda, or west caves/containers/sand temple. I just wander around the streets until I see lights.
There is only one okay hive location, the lab. The cavelike areas are shit because you cant weed them properly.

[Swagile]

- Constant useless checkpoints that block both marines AND xenos, making them completely worthless as both sides have no time / want to invest time into opening them up (blast door checkpoints), hence dead space and only hindering both sides movements. Checkpoints need to be remodeled to be actually useful and worth the effort in powering them up; for example, making it so powering up a checkpoint lets you press a button that pops up two turrets on both sides of the checkpoint, securing it if you add in some metal cades.

- LZ-2 is most viable because Tcomms is there, and it has a direct route that leads to both Filterations (South East filteration, go East then North, NE Filterations, then straight to Lab without having to go through 4 shitty checkpoints).

- No viable areas to hold. LZ-1 > Nexus > Hydro Road > Hydro is a viable route on LV because it has obvious ways you can cade it and restrict movement of xenos, and leads to the most viable place the xenos will be at (Tfort then Caves). Same thing with Big Red's LZ-1 > Bar > Lambda route or LZ-2 > Engineering > ETA route; all of them can be caded reliably without going down rapidly, and they restrict xeno movement heavily, while giving a reliable supply route / fall back. Trijent has NONE OF THESE.

- The toxic water is there just to benefit Xenos; its as if whoever designed this map didn't learn from Old Ice Colony. Old Ice used to kill marines in seconds the moment they took off their coif, and they got a heavy movement penalty that made them at half the speed they should be even when wearing the Coif. The toxic water is similar; it tickles xenos, while heavily hampering marines. The water has to completely fuck over xenos at the start, so that marines can control xeno movement early game which allows them to actually scout and have time to build cades. Xenos can still cross, but they have to use the very few bridges that aren't broken, which marines can actually cade and stop xenos at. This might also force xenos to hive somewhere that isn't Labs, because staying at Labs would force you into a funnel if marines decide not to turn on filterations.

- Give more function to other places on the map. For example, move the autodocs out of Labs and put it in Medical instead so there is a reason to capture the area and restore it. As I said above, make checkpoints useful somehow (doesn't have to be my turret idea, but it has to be something, otherwise checkpoints hamper the gameplay for both sides, which isn't a positive at all).

[Ranulfus]

- No, people tend to exaggerate how large the map is, but one look at the map will reveal that you just follow the roads to get to where you want to go.
- Because Tcomms is located there, even though LZ1 is closer to the main contested area.
- Someone mentioned it, it's still unclear if it is at excavation or has been moved; not that it truly helps at the end of the day because it assumes marines are dominating.
- Haven't tried xeno on Trijent yet, but the monkeys in Marshall's office are often still there when marines land, so they must not go that far.
- It does not feel like there are truly "objectives" on the map. Filtration has problems, engine room is irrelevant, Tcomms blends into the background, and sensor tower is unhelpful since it's only used for when xenos are already too crippled to make a comeback.
- Western-middle section (Marshall's to Hangar, arguably the entire western half) and south-eastern quadrant (Dorms to Hospital).

Not exactly sure how legible this is, but these are my gripes with the map:


Space.

[CABAL]

Like just ghost and watch one round. If someone who plays this game needs explanation "what makes it bad" then he probably never played it, or only as shipside role, or as beno.
Just the map shows flaws, you don't even have to play SS13 at all. Show this map to some good RTS gamer who never played SS13, tell him that one side is "human shoot and can baricade" and the other is "zerg, but less and single units are way much stronger than single hooman".
He would point those flaws in a blink. I bet even Roblox player would to that, ask friends in the current game.

[Steelpoint]

This is from a Marine's perspective.

After playing on Trijent for more than five times, do you still get lost? If yes, why?

Considering the large size of the map and the hegemony of tactics used, I find if we end up straying off the usual beat and path that getting lost becomes a possibility. In the rounds I've been able to play, we're generally told to just keep marching eastward, the northward. At which we usually end up getting hit by the xenos and then we die/retreat back the way we came.

Personally, the only areas of the map I've actually seen are the southern areas, and even then, we just skip over large areas.

What do you think, why is LZ2 a more popular FOB spot than LZ1?

The fact Telecomms is on LZ2. Same reason for any map where Tcomms is a physical object that needs to be repaired and defended.

It also helps that LZ2 is far easier to defend, to a degree. There are fewer ingress points into LZ2, the eastern side can be barricaded with minimal effort, and the northern side at the very least means you know the xenos are going to come one way.

LZ1 suffers from LV-624 syndrome, in that there are way too many ingress points, thus it becomes a fools game to defend.

How did you learn about filtration/sensor tower? Do you think there should be an ingame helper for engineers about these features? If yes, what?

I learned of the filtration mechanic via some of the dev hype talk. I only learned of the Xeno Sensor tower when people mentioned it in OOC chat, well after the fact.

There absolutely needs to be some in game mechanic to inform the Engineers/Command of the fact, at minimum, the xeno sensor tower exists.

Trijent is so far the only real objectives-based map. Do you think having objectives in general is fun? Or is it too restrictive? Should we have more "capture and hold" objectives or player-chosen places?

I do agree that having clear goals and objectives does help direct the game more, and is somewhat more fun. But the major issue is, there's no real reward for these objectives. We're not securing a landing zone, we're not setting up a defensive ring of bunkers, fences or sentry guns as a forward base, we're not even getting guns, ammo or basic medical supplies. We're just securing fresh water.

The Xeno sensor tower is simply too far out of the way. The only time I've ever seen the sensor tower come into play is when the xenos have been beaten and some Engineer remembers it existed.

For the amount of effort, risk and over extension you need to secure the objectives, there's no payback or reward for doing so that feels tangible. The dirty water may hardly effect xenos, but it still at least stops them from committing fully across the river. I feel, at times, cleaning the water can actually be a detriment, since you now open up the entire river to free xenos flanks at all times. Although you are forced to do this to get to the xeno caves.

Do you think there is a "superfluous" part of the map and if yes, which side?

So much of the map can feel superfluous. In game, I've never explored the hospital, the marshal's office, or the eastern laboratory. I've hardly explored the north half of the map outside of the occasional marine ill fated push into the excavation area. We never feel the need to explore these buildings, outside of chasing xenos.

The map feels like it's designed for 300 or more people. It feels like it needs more mechanics added to it, control zones, automated gates, forward bunkers, trains? Something?

It is a huge, sprawling map. That is never utilized to its greatest extent. Playing as a Marine on this map can feel like being a French soldier in Napoleon's campaign to Moscow. A long, arduous, journey along a linear path with the end result being nothing gained and everyone else is dead. For such a large map, everyone runs the same routes, cause the map demands it.

[misto]

- After playing on Trijent for more than five times, do you still get lost? If yes, why?
yes. a lot of the roads and passages are samey and lacking in good landmarks, imo. maybe signage or color-coding the buildings more could help.

- What do you think, why is LZ2 a more popular FOB spot than LZ1?

its obviously a lot closer to tcomms, which is an critical asset. make tcomms equidistant to have even a chance at making the lz's equally desirable.

- How did you learn about filtration/sensor tower? Do you think there should be an ingame helper for engineers about these features? If yes, what?

filtration has switches that catch the eye and of course the obstacle of the poison river makes people curious about circumventing it and so they keep an eye out for filtration. however, ive never seen sensor tower in action myself...

- As a xeno, do you think it's more tedious to collect furhosts on this map than, let's say, on Ice Colony? (To compare two fairly big maps)

its probably not a fair comparison, ice colony is a lot more ingrained in some peoples' minds due to simple seniority. im beginning to feel like monkey gathering is a hollow formality that could be dispensed with but thats going outside the scope of the discussion here

- Trijent is so far the only real objectives-based map. Do you think having objectives in general is fun? Or is it too restrictive? Should we have more "capture and hold" objectives or player-chosen places?

its cool. if you think about it, every map with a tcomms station has that as an objective, really, so this river/sensor tower stuff is basically an extension of that principle. however i will say that if you want objectives taken and guarded you may want to make stuff like sentry turrets a little cheaper/more accessible because its not super hot gameplay to make people stand guard over areas the whole time

- Do you think there is a "superfluous" part of the map and if yes, which side?

most of the action goes southwest corner-up-to-northeast corner because ne labs is where queens almost always sit down and sw lz is where humans almost always land. so, lz1 and the nw corner with the sandstone temple, xenoflora, admin and hangar are often neglected except for use as a flanking route to get around and bother lz2 and tcomms, and the se corner where the hospital, mess hall, dormitories and workshop are is also frequently unvisited. excavation contains little of tactical use to anyone, despite being visually interesting as a dig site. - - this isnt necessarily unique to trijent, there are big chunks of bigred, ice col and lv that go scarcely visited too - - maybe if lz1 were made viable then queens would be incentivized to pack up and move southeast just to put more distance between them and hive, once they noticed humans setting up shop at lz1

when youre dealing with terrain hazards/obstacles such as the poison river here, and to a certain extent the snow on ice col, the podlocks on bigred, and the fogwalls/fog gaps of lv, significant amounts of "funneling" of players through the paths of least resistance is going to happen

[Ttly]

- After playing on Trijent for more than five times, do you still get lost? If yes, why?
Somewhat, there are no direction signs, no clear indication which building is which at a glance, but other than that I can see that the map is basically split into three parts, west area with the LZs and such, the southeastern area where everyone gets lost in, and the northern labs&valleys which is where the xenos are.

- What do you think, why is LZ2 a more popular FOB spot than LZ1?
Tcomms, is this even a question.

- How did you learn about filtration/sensor tower? Do you think there should be an ingame helper for engineers about these features? If yes, what?
Wandering around the map, maybe some papers left around that says colonists almost finished jury rigging a sensor tower or whatever and it's almost done for IC way of knowing it. Anyone can already examine the sensor tower to see which tool they need for the next step on fixing it anyway. Personally I think relying on engineers is a dumb idea due to how bald some of the players are and balancing around the players that knows what they're doing isn't reliable.

- As a xeno, do you think it's more tedious to collect furhosts on this map than, let's say, on Ice Colony? (To compare two fairly big maps)
Of course it is, wandering around the map and then finding your way back to the nest on a large map is what it sounds like.

- Trijent is so far the only real objectives-based map. Do you think having objectives in general is fun? Or is it too restrictive? Should we have more "capture and hold" objectives or player-chosen places?
Too restrictive, relying on engineers to fix APCs is a fool's errand, most engineers do not give a single damn about fixing APCs, replacing lights, or hacking vendors. All they want to do is build cades until they run out of materials and then ask for more and I would rather not rely on needing players that needs to be proactive in approaching situation, those players are rare and you need them to fix filtration and to open up the checkpoints to let the tank through.

- Do you think there is a "superfluous" part of the map and if yes, which side?
Yes, a lot of the southeastern part of the map such as the dorms and whatever there are on the far southeast are very much neglected, so are the northwestern part of it.

[solidfury7]

The map is too complicated for the average player, it needs more notable landmarks, and could really use some in game signs to help people who don't have the map up 24/7