Xenos could lose 100% as long as I can personally dunk on marines then I will have fun. They are going the opposite of that and making xenos as a team win while making each individual xeno have less skill.Originally Posted by FGRSentinel
Xenos could lose 100% as long as I can personally dunk on marines then I will have fun. They are going the opposite of that and making xenos as a team win while making each individual xeno have less skill.
I said something like that that long ago on previous forum: Marines can be dunked every round as long as I will feel "cool" about killing few xenos and RP'ing a bit. If I would only kill players, then I would play TF2 more, instead of switching to CM13.
If killing players is somebody's' only idea, then he should play AvP.
Making xenos more "Team players" is a good thing. Defender - Boiler duo is what brought me to playing xenos after death. Single, powerfull xenos shouldn't be a thing. We are playing team deathmatch, not a fucking free for all.
WO is a step in right direction but far off the cliff. Current state xenos have potential, but they shouldn't be able to heal that easly and problem solved.
Nobody wants to be stomped right away, while xenos had (and still have) many "get out of the jail" free cards.
In short I will use classic invertion: "Marines could lose 100% as long as I can personally dunk on xenos then I will have fun. They are going the opposite of that and making marines as a team win while making each individual marine have less skill." - Why this is cool for you, but orginal does not?
Last edited by CABAL; 01-01-2019 at 05:05 PM. Reason: spelling
You dont play xeno. There is no team work in xeno. Xenos are faceless. Xenos are bald 90% of the time. The most team work you will see is like you said a defender standing infront of a boiler (which is stupid and boring for the defender). If you are lucky someone will help you gank when you are a lurker or someone will help you capture a marine by tackling it when you are trying to devour. Xenos are not made for team work and unless you give us identification we will never work well as a team (devs wont do that so good luck). Fuck being weak and having to rely on team work. I will quit playing xeno like I said, I dont give a shit what you want.
Again, I was and I am supporter of xeno indentyfication. Blame the staff and if you menage to get this, don't forget about your trusty "gameplay friends" to get marines new toys, since they also don't want us to have that aswell.
I do play xeno, not from the round start but as soon as skull appears on medical hud over my head, I'm being reborn as a larvae and I evovle into Defender. And i'm not passive defender becouse that is just "stereotypical", I defend any xeno from incoming fire, retreating drone, badly injured Queen, or Rav. It's not stupid and boring for me. Your concept of "fun" appears to be only in killing (as for xeno side atleast, but I guess without a doubt that for marines/any humanoid aswell). It's just not it.
Xenos are made for team work nearly as much as marines. I don't know 99% of marines. I know few "in/famous" marines, but they are going their own paths, I'm not following them like I would RP following Kane. All I know as marine to not trust marines without nicknames and I had to learn to recognise "baldness" from just looking at sprite and how it behaves. Otherwise I'm dead.
Xenos have OOC rule to obey the Queen, Queen can order to listen to the leader and thus you have to obey his orders. Here you got it! Xenos are better teamplayers than marines simple becouse they have to follow orders is they are ordered.
What made you think that xenos are not made for team work? They are precisely made for that since each one of the caste is designed to fill a niche. You have builders/"hugger handers/support" branch type, you have "tanky in your face/swiss knife preator" branch type, you have "fast and sneeky/huge DPS" branch type and you have ranged branch type. Nearly all of them are weak alone. Drone alone is just a joke, he can only escape. Defender alone is joke, Runner alone is just a joke, Sentinel/Spitter/Boiler/all of them alone are just a joke alone against more than one, two, or three marines. They have to team work, atleast use "chaos" created by that 90% of baldies. It's not a secret that those 10% of xenos does 90% of kills.
"Fuck being weak and having to rely on team work. I will quit playing xeno like I said, I dont give a shit what you want." - This is for what I've been waiting for and this is what defines a "hypocrite":
" - Marines being weak and having to rely on team work?"
" - Nah... They can handle it, it's balanced since they are "the main protagonists", better to not give a shit for what they want."
" - Xenos becoming weak and having to rely on team work?"
" - FUCK THAT I WON'T GIVE A SHIT, I WILL QUIT PLAYING XENOS BECOUSE THEY HAVE TO RELY ON A TEAM WORK IT'S SO UNFAIR AND UNFUN, HOW COULD YOU HAVE FUN WHILE YOU ARE WEAK AND WHEN YOU HAVE TO RELY ON OTHERS? I JUST CAN'T IMAGINE PLAYING AS WEAK CHARACTER THAT NEEDS MEDIC TO HEAL MORE SERIOUS WOUNDS, I DON'T EVEN WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT MOST SERIOUS WOUNDS REQUIRE GOING BACK TO THE SPAWN AND WAITING FOR SOME OTHER PLAYER TO DO SURGERY! THIS IS NOT FUN, XENOS SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT!!!!!!!! But marines? Yeah, they have to rely on others and they are weak alone... Fuck them, it's cool"
How does it sounds? Not even 0.000000001% of hypocrisy?
Last edited by CABAL; 01-01-2019 at 06:38 PM.
Marines just got buffs to all of their guns (except shotgun but slugs got buffed) they are getting a cas rework, a research rework, and whatever else. I dont know what you mean by not getting new toys.
I do all that on every caste you dont have to be a defender to block bullets for someone getting lit up or drag someone out of harm or whatever, I dont just run around trying to solo all the marines.
Xenos are only made for teamwork as far as you have to have weeds, and you need bodies to spread out the damage so you need to charge together. Other than that they are all made to be self sufficient. I can capture a marine solo with just about any caste. I can kill a marine solo with just about any caste. You just do it in different ways with each caste. 1 drone can do everything hive related, so can the queen. You dont even need teamwork to plant eggs and infect stuff 1 person can do it.
Xenos are 25 individuals doing their job to win as a team. Marines are 50 individuals working together to get a goal done. Its not the same. Marines literally have to amass firepower or else they dont do well. Ya robust marines can 1v1 stuff but generally you need 2 or 3 marines working together to secure kills. Even the rpg needs help to kill shit when he stuns it. You need dudes in req sending supplies, commanders monitoring the field, doctors healing you, medics stabalizing you, squad leaders guide the squad, smartgunners providing covering fire and seeing in the dark. All sorts of syngery and team work is needed.
Aliens literally need 1 person to infect and plant eggs, 1 person to spread weeds (could be the same person), and thats it. Everyone else can operate solo while fighting as a group. At no point am I like Ok that warrior is gonna grab a dude then im gonna pounce this dude while the praetorian sprays acid to cover our retreat and the boiler fires a gas cloud into the marines charging to get some easy kills. It dont work like that at all because we have no coordination. The most we do is charge together in a big group and scramble to kill shit in which we body block the shit out of each other and fuck up each others captures and all sorts of dumb shit. We dont know who anyone is so the only way to learn who is reliable and not is through trial and error in EVERY SINGLE ROUND. Basically you dont.
You dont realize how bald the aliens are most of the time. Good luck getting mister newbie drone to even drop weeds for you none the less use recovery pheromone even though you ask him 15 times. Good luck getting the crusher to knock a hole in the wall without yelling at him over and over. Good luck getting newbie boiler to go melt walls in tcomms so you can flank. If we HAD to rely on everyone else we would lose every single match because most people cant even do their job right.
Ya the queen can give orders but people ignore them all the time. What you also dont realize is there are more bad queens than good that give terrible orders or just dont do anything. The queens that deovi at the first fight and go die immediatly and ruin the whole round. The queen cant watch the whole battlefield at once especially in high pop.
Marines are weaker than aliens in 1v1 because they are made to team fight. They also outnumber aliens by 4 to 1 usually. Marines have all sorts of huge firepower that they can use from a distance. They have bases that they can fall back to to regroup. They are literally made to fight 2-3 on 1 thats why they are weaker in 1on1. If marines were equal in 1on1 aliens would never win. Aliens will never have the numbers that marines have because most marine players refuse to play alien. They dont like it. You really think they are gonna wanna play it more whenever aliens are even lamer then they are now? Aliens will be no fun when they die easily and are expected to just suicide over and over like in whiskey outpost. The only reason anyone even plays WO is because it only happens rarely. That game mode is pure shit and if it was like that every time no one would want to play anymore.
Can you both stop having some autistic shitfest and focus on the topic. I assume the original complaint in the topic can be summarized as, Xenos are becoming squishy and people are able to kill one with a lot less power compared to the past.
If that's the case then my input is that xenos are not really that weak now anyway, sure you can down xenos a little easier but they tend to hurt a little more. The mutators, (while I feel need a little more balance work), have xenos plot towards a path that they would rather prefer plus hive mutators often have queens shunt for raw killing power over captures nowadays. In fact killing potential has dramatically increased with xenos minmaxing by dumping tackle for something like damage or health. Meanwhile, marines now have weapons that hit harder compared to the wet blankets they were firing before, which solved the gripe people had that nearly every xeno was tanky and escaped way too many mistakes they constantly make. Focus on that part as well, constantly, xenos have made mistakes time after time and got away with it in the past. Look at when the mutators first came out, xenos got jumped up and killed just about everything they saw, FOBs breached and evacs ordered within 25 minutes of landing. Any of the xenos that tried then will attempt xeno now and suffer due to the marine weapon reworks, then completely quit because "no fun anymore". Meanwhile xeno mains have to suffer complete retards who will endlessly charge at any marine who's within 20 miles of them. It used to be that the odd shit xeno didn't hamper the hive, but now with the non xeno mains testing the water and then getting dunked due to a slight change.
There's also the complete shambles that is xeno strategy today which is either suicide tactics from really shit players to steamrolling marines forcing them to evac "early". The number of times I see the early evac argument being used when the marines were soundly beaten planet side by a massive zerg rush. What are marines to do? deploy planet side and get dunked on by their own volition? Heck another point that I find key is that xenos have become more glassy today, but they should still be focusing on captures so that they can keep the strength up. After all that's why multi burst larva is a thing, yet all I see now are xenos murder just about everything with no restraint then complain when they die to marines because of their hubris.
I agree with you on xeno teamwork. The only time xenos work as a team is when it's a benefit to themselves personally, opportunistic even. You can't talk tactics because IDing people is near impossible when you have a hivemind that's busy and filling chat quickly plus numbers are always a shit thing to recognize on the fly when you're busy yourself. The teamwork is based on castes if anything, lurkers will use spitters stun as a chance to get some serious damage in, ravs use boilers so they can sneak in an pounce etc etc. There's no real tactical teamwork because communication is a pain.
But I disagree about the idea that xenos have become "too glassy" as I'll paraphrase it. They have become weaker and more reliant on personal skill and that's good! but nothing has evolved in the thinking of xeno tactics because communication is near impossible at times. Xenos either steamroll and cause a lot of marines to be alive ship side due to a retreat. Or the xenos get completely flattened because they can't stay alive for more than 2 minutes before they get the urge to run into HMG fire. The issue was that the skill floor was always too low for most castes and trying to change it will cause a level of hostility by some not to mention formulating plans is far easier as a marine compared to a xenos due to identification.
What really spurred this discussion is the respawn update Mann Handle. Once they add it they will have to nerf xenos to balance it and xenos will become stupid and pointless to make up for being able to come back as t2 and t3 over and over. Its a terrible idea and its gonna lead to xenos getting nerfed over and over.
Basically they know they cant get enough players to have huge amounts of xenos to outnumber marines cause no one wants to play xeno. So they are gonna do the only other thing and make the xenos that do want to play respawn 500 times to simulate an endless wave of xenos.
Thing is that update is still in a "wait and see" phase. It does allow you to come back as a higher tiered xeno even if you died but the total number of slots won't actually change and the downside is that if you were an elder lurker and you went straight back, you become a mature lurker and miss out on one tier of mutators. So an ancient runner get demoted to elder runner and now it's lost both mature and young mutators because the player wanted to get back into the game asap. It sounds like a valid balance imo.
Its not though. I can destroy everyone without mutators so whats it matter if I get 1 or 2 less mutators but get to come back as a t3 over and over? Good luck. Thats why they will have to balance it against being able to respawn t3 over and over.
Just think about it from a marine perspective. T3 are the only thing that REALLY stop marines. Boilers, crushers, praetorians. Ya lurkers are nasty but they dont do shit against marines in groups. So how do marines win games? They kill the t3 then they start pushing the hive back and finish them off systematically. Good luck doing that when you can constantly have t3s respawning. Marines are struggling to win games right now WITHOUT respawning. How do you think respawning is gonna affect the game if they dont do something to balance it?
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