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Thread: How would YOU balance the game?

  1. #21
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    I would change the end game. Right now the initiative of each side is too easily controlled by the marines. Marines decide when and where to attack, as well as when to retreat. Xenos have to take what they are given. There is no mechanism for xenos to punish for early FoB retreats and evacs.

    I would also make marines and xeno gameplay more distinct, remove buckshot, nuero and nerf ranged xenos attacks. Marines fight from a distance, xenos fight up close. Stuns are for scrubs.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate_bickie View Post
    I would change the end game. Right now the initiative of each side is too easily controlled by the marines. Marines decide when and where to attack, as well as when to retreat. Xenos have to take what they are given. There is no mechanism for xenos to punish for early FoB retreats and evacs.

    I would also make marines and xeno gameplay more distinct, remove buckshot, nuero and nerf ranged xenos attacks. Marines fight from a distance, xenos fight up close. Stuns are for scrubs.
    Just like benos controll planetside, marines kinda controll Shipside (benos can crash on top of defences like tankbay, or CIC). Xenos have a way to punish early evacs: Admemes. Early FoB retreats? It's kinda benos fault for making marines retreat. THey won't win by sitting in FOB.

  3. #23
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    remove predators

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Just like benos controll planetside, marines kinda controll Shipside (benos can crash on top of defences like tankbay, or CIC). Xenos have a way to punish early evacs: Admemes. Early FoB retreats? It's kinda benos fault for making marines retreat. THey won't win by sitting in FOB.
    Admins don't usually get involved unless marines have evac'd and are getting bored, in which case they force the xenos up. I have never seen admins force marines back down. Early FOB retreats occur after marines put in a minuscule effort, like literally they don't even try. Marines can win by sitting in the FoB because it grinds down xenos numbers and the only counter xenos have is to do nothing, which sucks the fun out of the game.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate_bickie View Post
    Admins don't usually get involved unless marines have evac'd and are getting bored, in which case they force the xenos up. I have never seen admins force marines back down. Early FOB retreats occur after marines put in a minuscule effort, like literally they don't even try. Marines can win by sitting in the FoB because it grinds down xenos numbers and the only counter xenos have is to do nothing, which sucks the fun out of the game.
    I've seen marines being asked to return. It's rare.
    When I play queen sometimes I get the weird feeling of "we're winning at the FOB, but I guess if I wanted to win I'd have to meta and call for a full retreat and wait for them to come out".

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate_bickie View Post
    Admins don't usually get involved unless marines have evac'd and are getting bored, in which case they force the xenos up. I have never seen admins force marines back down. Early FOB retreats occur after marines put in a minuscule effort, like literally they don't even try. Marines can win by sitting in the FoB because it grinds down xenos numbers and the only counter xenos have is to do nothing, which sucks the fun out of the game.
    Admemes always have the exact numbers and I guess they understand how panic works. If benos are constantly harrasing FoB, gas is flowing constantly, some cades are about to break and some fighters are wounded, then Marines will try to evac, because they don't have exact numbers of their population and beno population. Scan isn't doing it's job for more than few minutes, where everything can change.

    Again, if FoB is being harassed constantly, even 15 benos can scare off 100 combat capable marines. If Marines tried to push out of FoB and they failed, then who is first to throw the stone and blame marines for "meta evac" if they can't do anything? It would be stupid. Atleast evac means that round will end in next 30 minutes, where endless FoB siege will take hours. It's better for almost everyone. Only hard on beno mains who enjoy mindless slaughter can complain about their defenceless prey escaping.

    And no, Marines can't win by sitting in the FoB. It's impossible.
    When marines are defending, then there is no one to chase wounded benos, so the only killed bugs were either bald, or very unluckey (like stepping on a mine, or SADAR, or good nade). Otherwise slighty decent benos are unable to die at FoB siege. Marines will run out of ammo, out of meds and out of anything, while benos can just sit behind a wall and regenerate everything.
    Tell me, how many rounds you have seen where Marines scouted the map a bit, were forced to retreat to FoB (every squad), then they survived siege and rushed back to kill benos and succed? Next to 0, because I've never seen such round. Every round with FoB siege ends up in Benos breaking defences and Marines evacuating.

    Another question: Tell me, when in your opinion Marines are allowed to Evac?

  7. #27
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    Balance right this moment is pretty good; grenades could be reeled in a bit in availability, some xenos could do with doing slightly more damage on slashes, runners could do with being less obnoxious but that's a difficult one to tackle, a few xeno castes need more (or any) strains. Neuro should be more like pounce with no RNG but a significant cooldown so it can't permastun, allowing it to be used in a reliable/tactical way. Marines could do with more paincrit health so they can be more reliably captured and/or xenos need a visual indicator that a marine is paincrit and can't fight anymore.

    A few niggling problems with marine weapons - Mounted 56D isn't good enough and could do with either more damage/RoF or greater LOS. HPR is similarly not good and needs better accuracy or substantially better RoF - honestly when the HPR had its bipod/qfa heyday it behaved like what the mounted 56D's really ought to be like. On attachments: The accuracy boosting attachments are extremely punishing/unusable vs xenos due to all the penalties stacking - long wield delay, scope delay, slower movement speed, accuracy debuff when unscoped, slow rate of fire, and all of this happens at once - it's all too much downside in exchange for the accuracy and situational LOS extension. Not worth while.

    Attachments in general are questionable to me because they seem too much like stat bonuses instead of gameplay style changes (like how we used to have mutators instead of strains for xenos). This has led to some weapons simply not having certain attachments for balance reasons, while other weapons have been rebalanced with attachments in mind (HPR in particular imo), meaning without attachments the weapon underperforms significantly.

    tbh the dev team has done very very well with listening to player feedback and the game has improved on balance tremendously from a few months ago.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Admemes always have the exact numbers and I guess they understand how panic works. If benos are constantly harrasing FoB, gas is flowing constantly, some cades are about to break and some fighters are wounded, then Marines will try to evac, because they don't have exact numbers of their population and beno population. Scan isn't doing it's job for more than few minutes, where everything can change.

    Again, if FoB is being harassed constantly, even 15 benos can scare off 100 combat capable marines. If Marines tried to push out of FoB and they failed, then who is first to throw the stone and blame marines for "meta evac" if they can't do anything? It would be stupid. Atleast evac means that round will end in next 30 minutes, where endless FoB siege will take hours. It's better for almost everyone. Only hard on beno mains who enjoy mindless slaughter can complain about their defenceless prey escaping.

    And no, Marines can't win by sitting in the FoB. It's impossible.
    When marines are defending, then there is no one to chase wounded benos, so the only killed bugs were either bald, or very unluckey (like stepping on a mine, or SADAR, or good nade). Otherwise slighty decent benos are unable to die at FoB siege. Marines will run out of ammo, out of meds and out of anything, while benos can just sit behind a wall and regenerate everything.
    Tell me, how many rounds you have seen where Marines scouted the map a bit, were forced to retreat to FoB (every squad), then they survived siege and rushed back to kill benos and succed? Next to 0, because I've never seen such round. Every round with FoB siege ends up in Benos breaking defences and Marines evacuating.

    Another question: Tell me, when in your opinion Marines are allowed to Evac?
    Marine evac should be when the FoB is actually being breached, any sooner and your basically just throwing the ground battle for the Almayer battle which is meta and will just lead to awkward re-balancing that mess with 'legit' rounds. I probably overstated how often it happens, but I do thunk marines put in token efforts on the offensive sometimes which kinda messes up the round.

    Of course maybe I'm just used to marine all in rushes so I dunno. The two tactics, all in rush and early FoB retreat put such different strains on balancing that I feel likely the devs are being pulled in alot of different directions.

    I'd prefer ERTs to be weighted based on xeno to marine ratios, 1:1 = likely CLF/UPP, 2:1 = PMC(Friendly), 1:2 = Xeno ERT.

    Those aren't suggested numbers just an example of what I think should happen. Xenos behind, get more xenos, marines behind, get more marines, even, send in chaotic neutral.
    Last edited by Chocolate_bickie; 07-05-2019 at 06:17 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate_bickie View Post
    snip
    problem is clf/upp usually just side with marines on almayer. The other problem is that marines know if they have more or less thanks to ares so they just wont call ert if they have more than the xenos.

    what they should do is make almayer a bad thing for marines. Remove all tactical shotguns from the ship. No rewards for losing ground side and retreating. Make the ship layout more xeno favored. Do something to make the tank way shittier on the almayer. Things like that. Then marines wouldnt want to go to the almayer unless they had to.

    they could also remove the round ending timer so that xenos can grind marines down without having to rush and get themselves killed. This alone would weaken marines like crazy on the almayer because then most of their fortifications would fall over time without xenos dying.
    Last edited by MasterShakeEZ; 07-05-2019 at 06:29 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShakeEZ View Post
    problem is clf/upp usually just side with marines on almayer. The other problem is that marines know if they have more or less thanks to ares so they just wont call ert if they have more than the xenos.
    Yeah. Maybe 1:1 should just be no ERT or something similar, no point unbalancing the end of round. Ideally this kind of system would take into account, specs, T3s etc but that sounds like a nightmare to code which is why I said ratios. 1:1 for probably marine friendly but not always sounds fine, since 'ideally' (xeno main vomit) one xeno is equal to one marine.

    But you can just mess with numbers until it seems balanced.

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