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Thread: Dorkkeli - Pred Honor Code/Clarification

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    Dorkkeli - Pred Honor Code/Clarification

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    MaximusRex

    Date of Incident
    July 17, 2019

    Your Character Name?
    Jackson 'Shamrock' Dee

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Dorkkeli

    Accused Character Name
    Rau'ta H'chak

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    3:00 AM

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Pred Honor Code/Clarification

    Description of the incident:
    So, on July 17th at approximately 3:00AM, I was playing as a Bravo PFC on Big Red. During this round, I had a run in with Dorkkeli the predator that raised some questions about the honor code and unworthy prey. The reason I am making this report is more for a clarification, rather than a punishment.

    The incident takes place near the end of the FoB siege. Before the marines were driven off the planet, I was in the middle of the LZ1 FoB when I heard the sounds of bones breaking and screams to the north. I knew that the north FoB had only light defenses and was open into the caves, so I moved north expecting Xenos to be pouring in. Instead, I found Rau'ta H'chak (Dorkkeli) killing a fellow Bravo Marine in melee combat. Rau'ta H'chak downed the bravo marine, grabbed him, and was about to make a break for the caves through our plasteel barricades.

    This is when I sprung towards the plasteel cade line, and closed it at a perfect time to break Dorkkeli's grip before he was able to escape with the Bravo marine. With the few seconds of confusion I caused Dorkkeli, I dragged the dying Bravo marine and dragged them into the FoB. This began a fight with Dorkkeli over his prey's limp body. After a brief back and forth, where I fired a few shotgun blasts, Dorkkeli did something I didn't expect.

    He fired an HPC at me.

    The HPC went wide and blew up off screen, but still, it took me off guard. Since I was both defending a fellow marine AND defending the FOB, I would think that I wasn't considered unworthy prey. I had a few fights with predators previously this round, but they were all worthy fights where I was either being hunted or defending another who was hunted. Thinking that it might have been a misfire or he was triyng to use LPC, I continued the fight.

    And that's when he HPCed again, this time hitting me directly.

    I'm in hardcrit instantly, max level shellshocked, and suffocating to death. The Bravo marine he was hunting is now DEAD dead from the blast. Quite pissed at this point, I address Dorkkeli in LOOC, telling him that not to HPC FoB defenders. This is where I believe Dorkkeli realized that he might have made a mistake, so he made the gracious decision to return both myself and the Bravo he was hunting to a medic, where we were both resuscitated . However, due to being so badly shell shocked and hurt from his HPC, I was soon after killed by xenos overrunning the north FoB line. Though I was brought into the Alamo and revived, my wounds were grievous, and I had to deal with three broken bones, brain damage, and IB all the way to the end of the Alamayer fight.

    Post round, I messaged Dorkkeli and had a conversation about what happend. He apologized, and told me that he regretted using the HPC on me. I understand people make mistakes, and was ready to leave it at that. What's concerning is that he told me that he brought the issue up to 420, another predator player, and that 420 said that he was in the right HPCing me. Feeling something was off, I messaged 420 and a few other pred players and asked their opinions on the matter, and got very mixed replies. Mainly, the confusion was over whether dragging the Bravo's dying body away from Dorkkeli was a dishonorable move.

    In the honor code, an example of Unworthy Prey and its exceptions are given:

    "Any prey or group who actively pursues/engage the Predator themselves, who the Predator is not hunting/disrupting. This does not apply to groups pursuing the Predator after they have engaged targets in front of offending parties (Groups defending a FOB/Hive or defending others are not considered unworthy)"

    What I would like to know is this; How far can I go to defend my fellow marine before becoming unworthy, and how large of a timespan and distance am I allowed to chase a predator after I see them engage an ally? Does trying to recover a dead comrade from a Predator's clutches count as interfering or defense?

    In my experience, I've seen predators using HPCs and cloak killing on both marines and xenos that chase them only a screen's length after a defensive fight, even though a time/distance limit isn't described in the honor code. A clarification on these matters would help avoid a lot of confusion and salt in the future.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    Dorkkeli lands his second HPC on me, and my comments in LOOC afterwards: https://i.imgur.com/C6YV5Na.png

    How you would punish the accused:
    I'd recommend no punishment for Dorkkeli, considering the greyness of the issue, his apology afterwards, and the difference in interpretation of the code between a few predator players. Like I said, a clarification is all I'd like to see.

  2. #2
    Head Manager ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    Council will discuss it, but I would have personally perferred if you asked for a entire council discussion instead of putting Dorkkeli on the spot with a report if your overall goal was for clarification.
    Last edited by ThesoldierLLJK; 07-18-2019 at 12:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThesoldierLLJK View Post
    Council will discuss it, but I would have personally perferred if you asked for a entire council discussion instead of putting Dorkkeli on the spot with a report if your overall goal was for clarification.
    He did bring it to me at least, im unsure on which if other council members it was taken to though. It is abit of a grey issue area but i do agree that if the ultimate goal is only clarification then a report was abit unneeded as i tried to hint at when we talked about it. Maybe its my bad and i should have straight said it and told you to just wait until i had brought it up with the council but as such it didnt turn out that way. Personally i think if its in the name of hunting or claiming trophy's that are basically guaranteed (hardcrit/dead) then even fobbits should be able to be classed as unworthy. But that is only my personal view on it and until the council have come to a decision is by no means the standard for the grey area or this situation.
    H'chak Best click clack.

    Alice 'Snow' Falkner: The one TRUE snowflake.

    Lurker 420 Points at the dank weeds.

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    Head Manager ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    We're still discussing it.

    However some questions

    1. How close to the main FOB was he hunting this marine

    2. How far did you chase him from the main FOB to attempt a rescue, within a few tiles, screens, etc...

    3. Was the FOB damaged at all from the Plasma shot?
    Last edited by ThesoldierLLJK; 07-23-2019 at 08:26 PM.

  5. #5
    Whitelisted Predator Dorkkeli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThesoldierLLJK View Post
    We're still discussing it.

    However some questions

    1. How close to the main FOB was he hunting this marine

    2. How far did you chase him from the main FOB to attempt a rescue, within a few tiles, screens, etc...

    3. Was the FOB damaged at all from the Plasma shot?
    My POW:

    1. The hunt began from around halfway point in the northern cave system, just north of Marshalls. The dude ran all the way back to the cades. We ran in and out of the FOB area several times with the marine before Dee came into the picture. I managed to slash them to paincrit and real close to death, when they ran back inside the FOB. I started to drag em around while reorienting myself. Then Dee came along and the rest happened.

    2. From what I remember, the furthest Dee came was around 10 tiles out of the inner cades. Most of the fighting between me and him was right next to the cades.

    3. Yes, few barricades were hit in the blast, mostly moderate damage, little bit of minor, little bit of major damage. I had retreated back inwards to the FOB, and Dee was still between me and escape.

    Hope that cleared some things out.
    Bert 'SOAB' Beach CARGONIA
    Henrik & Leeroy SYNTHETIC
    Rau'ta H'chak YAUTJA


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    Head Manager ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    I pulled some logs of what I believe the situation was, correct me if I'm wrong

    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Whitelisted Predator Dorkkeli's Avatar
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    Got the right logs, chief.
    Bert 'SOAB' Beach CARGONIA
    Henrik & Leeroy SYNTHETIC
    Rau'ta H'chak YAUTJA


    Spoiler Spoiler:

    Spoiler Spoiler:

    "Honestly, how can you hire this cunt? You must be really fucked up to hire someone like him."

    sexy avatar by Manezinho

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    Soldier, thank you for responding. I believe the logs you pulled were from an earlier fight where I was defending another marine, as I do not remember Malleck Icerberg being present. Also, those logs when I connected with buckshot say "North Colony Grounds" and not Space Port. Check for a log of Jackson 'Shamrock' Dee being direct hit/damaged by an HPC.

    1. When I came into visual distance of Dorkelli and the marine he was hunting, they were inside the FoB, north hangar, west of the flight control room. The fight was well under way, and the marine was in flashing red health on his last leg. This was the first time I saw Dorkelli going after this man.

    2. My fight with Dorkelli was entirely inside the FoB. I did not leave the FoB at all. The closest I got to the outside of the FoB was when I closed the barricade on Dorkelli to break his grip on the paincrit man.

    3. The first plasma blast went wide, I did not see where it impacted, although there were defenses in the direction it flew off to. The second HPC blast definitely did damage to the north FoB....where the xenos attacked mere minutes afterwards and broke through.
    Jackson 'Shamrock' Dee

    Resident Delta Unga

  9. #9
    Whitelisted Predator Dorkkeli's Avatar
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    I think the third marine present who ran off early in the fight was Malleck. Not sure, though, it has been quite a while since this incident.
    Bert 'SOAB' Beach CARGONIA
    Henrik & Leeroy SYNTHETIC
    Rau'ta H'chak YAUTJA


    Spoiler Spoiler:

    Spoiler Spoiler:

    "Honestly, how can you hire this cunt? You must be really fucked up to hire someone like him."

    sexy avatar by Manezinho

  10. #10
    Head Manager ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    Council has discussed it, and here is the clarification.

    A marine defending and trying to save a marine falls under the Defense clause thus they do not become unworthy prey. The purpose of the unworthy prey is if a Xeno attacks a pred who is trying to claim a trophy or hunt a marine. Just like a marine if they attack a predator trying to hunt a xeno.

    That being said, we believe there was a miscommunication.

    Predators can hunt at the FOB, but just remember that HPC shots like to fly and if you do end up using them, make sure unworthy prey are actually unworthy and it's against them.
    Any reasonable player would try to help their teammate out, so in the end we're giving dork a VERY MINOR warning, but there will be no other discipline imposed
    @Bancrose the council has spoken.

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