Dr.Lance - Predator Rule Clarifications

[RobBrown4PM]

Player Report

Your Byond ID?

RobBrown4PM

Date of Incident

July 20, 2019

Your Character Name?

Krath'Teer

Accused Byond Key(if known):

Dr.Lance

Accused Character Name

Ha'ju Thar'n

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)

22:35hrs, mountain standard time

What rule(s) were broken:

Predator Rule Clarifications

Description of the incident:

At approx. 22:35hrs this evening I observed player, Dr.Lance, as a Yautja wield a Marine tactical shotgun and use it against several Xenomorphs, including an abomination. At approx. 22:43hrs I observed player wield and use a modified Ol'painless mini-gun against the Xenomorphs, specifically an abomination.


According to the 'Predator Rule Clarification' document:

Miscellaneous
a) If you haven't upgraded your bracer with the proper translator level, you cannot understand humans or xenomorphs ICly (even though gameplay wise, you can).
b) A level 1 bracer upgrade is required for humans and a level 2 bracer upgrade is required for xenomorphs.
c) This also applies if you lose your bracer where you previously had a translator.
d) hunters should not be using any other ranged weapon but their own predator weapons. No shooting human guns/grenades/mortars/tanks/claymores/turrets/anything else at all ever (Using an unloaded gun with its safety on as a melee weapon is however fine)

While I understand that there was an event going on, as a member of the Yautja WL I believe this series of actions by this player disrupted and polluted the purity of the role when he used human weaponry as a blooded Yautja.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

https://gyazo.com/d15f5532778f434dc4893719d98a6e9d

https://gyazo.com/adf1cc2c12d7d8e5a76c7db0ef79a6f9

https://gyazo.com/8eccfb56b04b9caf57e2ac3b87e9181c

https://gyazo.com/a81956d753345074784bfafcbbe58e39

https://gyazo.com/4f6a802a10769fec0012ff3a9761164d

I also have a video of this should the Council be willing to accept it. However, I would ask that a staff member on the council be the one to view it as it contains various staff related information and I am no good with video editing.

How you would punish the accused:

I'll leave that up to the council

[Survivor]

Yeah, there were nine total abominations. Honor code clearly states that predators can do whatever necessary to kill abominations.


"Abominations are considered unworthy of life and should be hunted down and eliminated with your full force at all costs. If you get infected, you should attempt to die in combat or have another hunter take your life. In case both are impossible, or if you wish, you must die by your own hand."


With how this is currently written, there are no implications that this can't be done. Despite this, even in a normal round, I would not do this. The issue was there was not one, but NINE abominations total, and as a predator I had to kill them all, at all costs.

[RobBrown4PM]

While the above quote from the honor code is correct, I do believe that this part is very important

"your full force at all costs"

My interpretation of this is that "your full force at all costs" implies using Yautja equipment and weaponry. Yautja do not use human weaponry, ever, it's dishonourable to do so. To give weight to my interpretation as being correct, the rules clarification document specifically outlines that using all human ranged weapons is a no go

"No shooting human guns/grenades/mortars/tanks/claymores/turrets/anything else at all ever (Using an unloaded gun with its safety on as a melee weapon is however fine)"

[Survivor]

I suppose it depends on how we interpret it. Either way, the outcome of the report will at least give clarity on the situation.

[Kineem]

I took part in the round, helping to kill two abominations. I then rushed the third abomination despite the fact that the hive was around it and got killed because hunting traps were just OOCly forbidden. I decided I couldn't care less about playing the round anymore and would either kill it or prove why hunting traps are necessary. I then ghosted over the preds and the abominations for the entire round.

There were TEN ABOMINATIONS. Abominations are disgusting vermin that disgrace all hunters everywhere with their existence. From an IC standpoint there quite literally is nothing worse than a Yautja letting his honor be soiled and allowing something as terrible as an abomination come into existence. The marines were getting absolutely shitstomped in this round because, as it turns out, a few tactical shotguns being spawned in aren't exactly enough to kill abominations, which will straight up end rounds solo. There were only two predators remaining out of the five that spawned in, and the threat had escalated from three abominations to EIGHT. Two were killed of the first three due to significant baldness and hunting traps, and so Jerkface spawned in seven extra and forbade predators from using traps for most of the round.

Arguing from an IC perspective that using a gun is dishonorable and ruins the purity of a Yautja isn't true. The continued existence of an abomination is far more dishonorable than using a ranged weapon to kill something. Human made or not shouldn't matter in such a circumstance, as preds don't have qualms with using a fireaxe.

Survivor was not going out of his way to kill anything that wasn't an abomination with the shotgun, and the moment all of the Abominations were killed he left the USS Almayer. He strictly used the tools at his disposal to kill Abominations and stepped out of line nowhere else in the honor code during the entire round, properly observing honor code in every other way.

If it is deemed that a hunter shouldn't be allowed to use a human weapon no matter the circumstance by the council (which makes sense for balance reasons), I request that council keeps in mind that Survivor isn't the one at fault, but rather the guidelines. It should have been made more clear in the guidelines that there are absolutely no circumstances that a hunter should use a gun, as the rules could be misunderstood. Assuming a pred could use a gun when the Abomination clause states that full force can be used to take them out makes sense, as there are both IC and OOC reasons supporting his reasoning.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Predator council is going to discuss it.

However, we do want to say that we think an "Event" with 10+ abominations is pretty much a meme. Whatever we decide, there will be no sanctions against Dr. Lance as this was a typical event gone to shit, and was beyond what most of us (myself included) would actually call a custom event.

[RobBrown4PM]

Just to be clear, I don't want to see some sort of outrageous punishment here, in fact I am perfectly ok with w/e happens. This is all about something I saw that I believed was wrong with a WL that I am invested in, and seeing that there is some form of discussion had about the topic.

On a side note I would like to see a discussion about limitations on the use of Aboms be brought up. Seeing as how they played a large part in this incident I hope that this discussion can be had by the council.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

On a side note I would like to see a discussion about limitations on the use of Aboms be brought up. Seeing as how they played a large part in this incident I hope that this discussion can be had by the council.

That�s
More of a staff thing, and pretty sure we had this discussion months ago about abominations and spawning primordial Xenos. But the council has no power on what a manager decides to do.

[420M.Y.K]

Im saying it official now, I dont care that preds used marine weapons in this "event". After talking to Dr.lance ive found out that traps were disallowed in this round. Which considering issues weve had with abom rounds not being allowed traps even just recently was a stupid call. Frankly as far as im personally concerned this time around the preds could have used whatever they like from a rifle and minigun to the sadar and tank. Admins need to understand that removing a roles only way to actually deal with a threat (Trapping a abom is basically the only way to deal with it as a pred and even then youre only really evening the odds) IS NOT FUN. Predators are meant to be able to use traps on a single naturally spawned abom and if anything HAVE NEVER BEEN STOPPED DOING SO. But then an "event" comes around which has 1.multiple abominations and 2 PRIMORDIAL abominations and preds lose the one thing that evens the odds or in the event of primordial just give you a chance. I agree with soldier that no punishment will happen. It was a badly executed event with bad stipulations that players just tried their best to have fun in .

On a sidenote, any admins or heads that read this, as a councilor and a fellow pred player. Stop spawning aboms en masse then taking away our weapons and tools for hunting them, its frankly just retarded. Lets take the strongest creature bar MAYBE xenoborg, Make it stronger, then remove the one thing that actually gives people a chance to fight it. To put it in perspective its like taking a marine, putting him in a room with a queen. And removing his guns. (and in this case trying to tell him off when he uses his boot knife). We love events as much as any role. Just not when they feel specifically designed to say fuck you.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

For a matter of clarification, preds do not shoot guns at all. However because of the circumstances of the event and a manager telling preds no traps, next time as a matter of clarification ahelp and request to the person running the event �hey can I use a human gun then?�

They can make the overall decision and if they say �don�t use XYZ� then you don�t use XYZ

I personally say it is unfair for someone to tell a pred "you can't use your game intended tools" but this was a manager decision, and what a manager says goes.