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Thread: Drevenshekel, scsnv, havokman, gigazer, others I didnt get to catch before round end.

  1. #1
    Senior Member WinterClould's Avatar
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    Drevenshekel, scsnv, havokman, gigazer, others I didnt get to catch before round end.

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    WinterClould

    Date of Incident
    July 26, 2019

    Your Character Name?
    Roy 'Butcher" North

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Drevenshekel, scsnv, havokman, gigazer, others I didnt get to catch before round end.

    Accused Character Name
    Wamakahana Windhealer, Sam 'Muffin Top' Addison, Jadon 'Silo' Day, Telen Knatz, Kale Rivera, Allyson Edwards, James-Frederick Cerwick, Fortune Lee, others I didnt catch before round end

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    1 something US Central Time

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 2, 4, 14, 16

    Description of the incident:
    Woke up late into the round as an MP, went to heard through announcements that a blood duel was happening at the LZ.
    Went down to investigate this and sound the Captain fighting a marine in the tram car. Went in to break it up and after some yelling I was set apon by the mass of marines outside.

    Flashbanged to try to get people to stop. They didnt stop. Tazer spammed to try to get away, there were to many disarming me, punching me. throwing knives and bayonetted guns and shit at me. Eventually I tossed a second flashbang but with the amount of marines out for blood trying to actually kill me, and the CO's orders to kill me, I didnt stand a chance and was cut down on my way out the area.

    In my eyes I was acting entirely within marine law, investigating some nonsense at the FOB and finding a fight club filled with marines and even the Captain neglecting their duties and goofing off. I'd intended to verbally disperse these marines until they laid hands on me.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    Then things got a little heated
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    I didnt exactly intend to smack James Cerwick with the tazer, but seeing as thats what happened, it didnt take long for the rest of everyone to jump on me.

    Seeing as the crowd wasn't playing right and was just assaulting my MP ass, I had to drop some flashbang truth on them and try to take a prisoner, the first person to interfere with my MP duties was my choice
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    What followed was my attempts to taze and crowd control. It didnt go over well once the marines starting to throw lethals like the M11 throwing knife and eventually started shooting me. Clear rule violations in my eyes as a mod. If this happened to anyone else while I was staffing Id be bwoinking the players who attacked the MP just doing his job.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    just the logs from my Ckey, no speech from other other players involved. Ill leave that leg work to the admins who are good at log diving because I aint.

    Spoiler Spoiler:

    How you would punish the accused:
    Notes for those who don't have a history of inferring with MP arrests.
    Bans for those who do. Exactly how we should or would handle this if these were individual cases.

    Drevenshekel should also be reminded of the CO's HRP status and warned for hosting a "blood fight" and other LRP shenanigans on the side lines of a warzone.

  2. #2
    Admin Taketheshot56's Avatar
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    Logs for this situation, some of the attacks were left out but nothing critical.

    Original situation takes place leading up to the "blood duel"
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    MP hears about this on the radio and decides to go investigate, SCV begins to drag him away from the scene and in attempts to taze him Wintercloud hits him with the tazer.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    All hell proceeds to break loose as several begin to attack Winter and winter fights back, The co tries to get him to stop and Winter also yells for the men to stop but they continue to stab and attack and he fights back with tazer.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    At this point Dreven the CO decides to declare the MP rouge and order his death. Winter begs the men to stop.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Winter then begins to drop flashbangs and mass tazes in attempt to escape with his life as marines stab and beat him, the captain calling on the marines to kill him once more.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    CO Windhealer then shoots wintercloud once, to which wintercloud begins stun batonning to escape and the marines begin to open fire on him, witercloud is subsequently killed by the marines in the next minute or so.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Windhealer then gives out medals for those who killed the MP and says "Fuck that MP" in ooc.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Ahelp conversation between wintercloud and moderator
    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Last edited by Taketheshot56; 07-27-2019 at 09:28 AM.
    Former member of the Commanders Council, PM me if you want help with making a whitelist or have a question.

  3. #3
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    Hey. As one of the people involved (Fortune Lee), I figured I would both explain my own (relatively minor) actions and give a witness account of the entire event, since the entire thing was such a cluster*$&#.

    Background on the duel before the MP got involved (since this is partially a LRP report against the CO).
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    The MP arrives, and the fight with them begins
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Taze spamming, big irons, and the death of an MP
    Spoiler Spoiler:

  4. #4
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    I was the CMO for this round, and I'd like to comment on the CO's behavior on an unrelated incident. Barely 5 minutes past roundstart, I believe the XO was ordered to break into research to steal the monkey cube box. This is despite either not asking, or me denying CO/XO permission to take monkey cubes. The CO did use the monkeys in some sort of sacrifice, but ordering a subordinate to break marine law pretty clearly isn't something I'd like to see again.

  5. #5
    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    Bancrose is on vacation so I've been assisting him with the WL Maintainer work after speaking with him. I spoke to Grimcad about how to handle this.

    The allegations against the CO will be handled as a Whitelist Report so I will get with the CO Council to discuss. To make things easier so you do not have to do separate reports, every other issue you've reported will be handled as a allegation of a server rule break for Grimcad to make a determination.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justicer3792 View Post
    I was the CMO for this round, and I'd like to comment on the CO's behavior on an unrelated incident. Barely 5 minutes past roundstart, I believe the XO was ordered to break into research to steal the monkey cube box. This is despite either not asking, or me denying CO/XO permission to take monkey cubes. The CO did use the monkeys in some sort of sacrifice, but ordering a subordinate to break marine law pretty clearly isn't something I'd like to see again.
    Purely replying this one here, this happened on another round a day or so before the one being discussed here IIRC. A little opportunistic imo to try and make this here when it was entirely handled IC during the round as it should be. I never "ordered the XO to break into research" as if the Commander doesen't have access to medical and research??? The XO was ordered to specifically collect 1 monkey for the purpose of a briefing ritual sacrifice, whether the order was misinterpreted or the XO wanted to overcompensate isn't really my fault. Really I was just trying to make a briefing that's a little different from the standard same ole same ole every round (theirs a reason so many ungas dont give a fuck about briefing and skip it).

    Honestly I don't really care what you "wouldent like to see again", the reason for this is that the researcher player at the time (Jimmy Freeman, also the player who is MOST effected by a lack of monkeys to play with) has talked to me over the incident and has stated that the incident led to him having a more fun and RP filled round. Infact it led to a shipwide adventure where he tried to EMP bomb the CIC, tried to poison me with a coffee and all other kinds of *fun* RP character interactions. Nobody's round was harmed and EVERYONE involved had a more fun round as a result, the marines got a wacky briefing where they got a bravo smartgunner scalped and monkeys sacrificed, the researcher got to play out his own little conspiracy plot, the bravo smartgunner got to serve as my bodyguard and even told the mods that he was having fun when they tried to get me punished for it.

    The only thing I'm sorry for is that your such a boring player that you want everything to seemingly go the exact same way every round.


    Now for my main reply to winter's charges.

    In my humble opinion winter did nothing wrong as MP, acted suitably IC and did everything he should have to stop what would appear to him as a very savage and unlawful marine fight club. However I also don't think I did anything wrong IC either, and thats okay because character conflict is the crux of good stories.

    A marine made a challenge to me which led to us having a fist brawl on the prison, this was at the very end of the round as the last of the xeno's were being mopped up (the round was not "derailed" for me to make a fight club as some people have been saying in discord discussions). The duel was actually organised, the rules were explained and their was no risk of it turning into a free for all murderbrawl. Both of us RP'd it out and all the marines watching it RP'd too.

    When the MP rocked up I knew things were gonna go one of two ways, either the MP was going to try and arrest 15 odd marines or the MP was going to leave it be. After the MP refused to take the second option (rightfully so) he tried to make the arrests, this resulted in several flashbangs and a taser shootout while I ordered the MP to stand down. IC the MP was breaking up a sacred blood duel, refused my command and was acting directly against my interests so I declared him a traitor to be brought in.

    Originally I wasn't going to get the mateba involved as I don't really like doing BE's, I wanted the MP to be captured so we could force him to duel me or some other RP solution that would have been more fun. But I also see how these sorts of unga on unga fights can spiral out of control so I wanted to put it down fast with a quick blast. The MP ended up dead and I decided to spend the last few minutes of the round giving medals to the marines involved, all of which was RP'd out.

    I do admit that it was out of line for me to say "fuck that MP" in OOC afterwards, this was just me being excited but it's barely the first time that someone's made fun of MP's. It wasn't a personal attack or "confirmation of a meta grudge" as some others have tried to make it out to be, it was just an off hand comment.

    Overall nobody involved in this incident had their round ruined or their gameplay harmed, infact I would say that everyone involved had a more fun round as a result of this; the ungas got to watch a duel, I got to duel an unga and the MP got to have an epic last stand with his taser. All the while the entire thing stayed IC and was RP'd. RP to you might mean being a textbook milsim jarhead but to me it means playing a character and playing it consistently as you interact with other characters, love or hate my character Windhealer you can't say he hasn't always been consistent.

    All of that being said, I do take responsibility for the entire incident and would like to take on any punishments that would be given to the other marine players involved. They were just following their IC directive (follow the commanders orders) and did nothing wrong.

    tldr: An IC situation that was handled IC, nobody involved had their game negatively effected and overall just made for a fun and memorable round. I admit I probably went too far and could have been a bit more diplomatic with the MP but Windhealer has always been a decisive and bloodthirsty warchief who takes action. The OOC comment I made was unfortunate but I barely think it's as big as people are making it out to be. Punishing CO's for trying to be creative with their character is only going to result in a more railroaded experience that will make the game less fun overall for all players, if you put it to a player poll I'm sure the numbers would support me there.

  7. #7
    Senior Member WinterClould's Avatar
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    The consistency of the Windhealer character is not in question. I personally find him interesting to engage with and enjoy how well the marines play along with them. But just as with our old wave of German CO's, there is a line between fun/original/interesting and the outrageous. This is a case that I feel fell to deep into the latter category. While fun for all players involved, myself included, I can't accept the standard it enforces of Marines being allowed to break server rules, without an admins rule 0, just because a lot of people had fun.

    I've been playing for so long that how any single round goes doesn't matter to me. Its been forever since any individual round mattered to me. But across a great deal many I've witnessed stupid shit from marines, rule breaking shit, go unpunished to the detriment of players who unlike me, do value each round they play. Far to often MP's are straight blasted and fucked on, purely because they don't have the numbers to enforce marine law on their own, and in my eyes, that's when Staff should be stepping in to fix things. Be that during the round while its happening, or after the round in a player report.

    There are RP standards to be upheld and one of those is interfering in the arrests of your fellow marines. The events that unfolded in the reported round were straight rule breaks from the marines who attacked me while I attempted to break up their illegal activities. None of them were going to be facing perma. None of them were going to be getting executed over this. None of them had a reasonable IC reason to put up a fight the way they did.

    My round wasn't ruined purely because it's very hard to ruin a round for me; but rules were still broken. Rules I care about as someone who gives a shit about our RP standards. The punishments I've requested are fairly light and completely reasonable and I hope they are followed exactly, I want the ruling to reinstate the standard that events like this are not purely IC issues staff can ignore or don't need to be involved in. That marines should not be escalating events like this just because they feel like it and think they can get away with it. There was once a time marines feared the MP, because they knew the MP had the backing of the staff team and would be supported by them. Basically, Im a boomer and Im salty to see our standards drop so low.
    Chen "Disco" West, Proud recipient of the "Realest Nigga on the Bloc" Award.
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    Secondary Objective: Stay Safe, Stick Together, Kick the ass of anything that might need an ass kicking. If you find any booze bring it up to CIC for me please.
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  8. #8
    Admin Taketheshot56's Avatar
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    This situation was discussed for a very long time and many different opinions were put forth but ultimately we have come to a decision in the CO council.

    Dueling your own men Mid-OP at the FOB, simply should not be happening while you are the Captain of a ship.
    Ordering the death of an MP and any Proxy BE is NOT okay.

    Overall we in the council have decided to issue a MEGA Warning, under which, ANY CO guideline violations until July 30th 2020, will result in an immediate suspension.

    This needs to be made abundantly clear for EVERY CO, as well as Dreven, dueling your own men on the surface of the planet mid operation is NOT okay, Doing things like monkey sacrifices or MP scalpings is not okay. In the future Dreven you need to limit your gimmick to words and dress, no more sacrifices, no more blood duels. Captains of the ship are held to a higher standard of roleplay and this must be met.
    Last edited by Taketheshot56; 07-30-2019 at 08:15 PM.
    Former member of the Commanders Council, PM me if you want help with making a whitelist or have a question.

  9. #9
    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    As the temporary Whitelist Maintainer guy, I agree with the assessment of the council.

    As an admin, triple certified whitelisted player, and veteran of almost a year and a half now this is a decision that I agree with.

    I'll be the first to say the following when it comes to CO Gimmicks/Quirks/Shenangians/Etc...

    We have COs who want to RP as immigrants and call xenomorphs cucarachas, COs that talk about Wendigos and evil spirits, COs that have certain aryan philosophies, and COs who want to order Banzai charges. We have COs that want to try different things, different tactics such as leveling an entire building and making it into some super fortress, or all squads rush LZ2 on Ice.

    We will never punish a CO for trying something new to break the meta, but we still have standards. There's this huge debate in the community right now saying "We're MRP server, no we're TDM server, no we're a HRP server."

    It says it right here in the CM Wikipedia for god sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by CM-SS13 Wiki
    Read the rules! CM-SS13 is a medium role-play server and you are expected to abide by the rules established by the server staff.
    Until that changes, this is a MEDIUM roleplay server. I've always believe the higher your rank goes and more responsibilities you have, the higher your RP quality has to be. If you want to act like a fool and meme, then play a PFC. Want to start a fight club to ward off evil spirits and have fun. Do it as a PFC, not the Commanding Officer of the mission.

    Quote Originally Posted by CM SS13 Wiki Commanding Officer
    The Commanding Officer is held in higher standard from all the crew of Almayer and expected to have the most top responsibilities from all other marines, because of this reason, the role is currently whitelisted, click here to go to the whitelist form.
    held in higher standard
    I don't understand why everyone thinks this has changed. The Commanding Officer is not a MEME role, and it's not low RP role as well. If you want to talk to spirits, talk about wendigos, and do rain dances to bless the operation, fine that's a simple quirk. But as the CO you are the ultimate authority for the round. If people want small events to change the meta and have some fun, that is what us admins are for. That is the purpose of our mini-admin events to try and do something a little different.

    Killing monkeys for a sacrifice, holding blood combat trials, demanding your men to scalp another player, is just unacceptable. I understand your gimmicks/wanting to have fun, but you have to maintain a careful balance on this one.

    That being said I see fault from all players involved, and I will just say may Grimcad have mercy on your souls, because if I was the manager, I would not.


    In regards to Drevenshekel, I agree with the council that he will get a big warning for all this as he has never been warned that has been documented in an official capacity. My philosophy is very simple: escalating discipline, and if it isnt written down, then it did not happen.


    Grimcad can handle the server rule allegations now, the WL sanction is completed.

  10. #10
    Manager Emeritus Grimcad's Avatar
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    Alright so its pretty clear that this sort of "Dog-piling" onto an MP is not something that we accept.
    Everyone involved in this mess is mostly note free so I think we can get by with a warning. However this is the only warning you will be getting for these types of shenanigans.

    Void Shiki will be receiving a note on their account stating their involvement and linking this report.
    Havokman will be receiving a note on their account stating their involvement and linking this report.
    IThroRoxAtBlindKids will be receiving a note on their account stating their involvement and linking this report.
    TheKingThatWas will be receiving a note on their account stating their involvement and linking this report.
    Xaenonm will be receiving a note on their account stating their involvement and linking this report.

    Gigazer will be receiving a note on their account stating their involvement and linking this report. This is a much more severe note and will also count as a warning for Improper Escalation as lethal weapons were used by this participant.
    skhul97 will be receiving a note on their account stating their involvement and linking this report. This is a much more severe note and will also count as a warning for Improper Escalation as lethal weapons were used by this participant.
    kocoa will be receiving a note on their account stating their involvement and linking this report. This is a much more severe note and will also count as a warning for Improper Escalation as lethal weapons were used by this participant.

    Scsnv will be receiving a note on their account stating their involvement and linking this report. This is a much more severe note and will also count as a warning for Improper Escalation as lethal weapons were used by this participant. Furthermore I expect my Moderators to follow the in game rules at all times and as such he has been reprimanded by me.

    Resolved.

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