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Thread: MarpleJones - BE guidelines

  1. #21
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    I believe this has gone in another direction, so let's all stop chatting and wait for more logs to be pulled off as was requested and a final decision of a head over this matter.

  2. #22
    CM-SS13 Vice Host
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    Concurred. If you are not directly contributing to this report please do not comment on it further.
    Charles & Arthur Edwinson
    Synth Percival | Artyom
    Yautja Kjhute Luar-ke

    Record:
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Discord: forest2001#2001

  3. #23
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    I'm not sure what I'm reading at this point so I'm going to sit down with the Council in a few days and review this report, So if anyone has anything to contribute that isn't ridiculous. Please do so within that time frame.

  4. #24
    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    We don't need dissertations and opinions of marine law.

    Post WHAT YOU SAW and DID if you're a witness

    Not what you think,
    Thanks

  5. #25
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    I'm Peter 'Hound' Watts.

    I'll simply confirm that when the dropship returned with the bloody remains of the dead MP as well as the captain and Kellogg, the marine wanted throughout the whole situation. I had Kellogg in custody who said he had been pardoned. I asked the captain to confirm which he did.

    I'm certain that logs can prove this.

  6. #26
    Whitelisted Predator MarpleJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watts-Amitt0 View Post
    I'm Peter 'Hound' Watts.

    I'll simply confirm that when the dropship returned with the bloody remains of the dead MP as well as the captain and Kellogg, the marine wanted throughout the whole situation. I had Kellogg in custody who said he had been pardoned. I asked the captain to confirm which he did.

    I'm certain that logs can prove this.
    I don't remember pardoning him for anything other than what I had known at the time. In fact, the only thing which I was aware of during the time was a minor infringement of him refusing him to wear any armor. I did not know about anything beyond that, and as such, I asked him to get back onto the battlefield and continue fighting the enemy as we were close to a victory.

    In that sense, if I did pardon him and you had directly asked me if I did, I merely answered thinking that it was that crime alone.

  7. #27
    Senior Member scsnv's Avatar
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    The CO Council has discussed this report and the information provided at length, and we've reached the following conclusions:

    • The core of all these issues seemingly stems from from a serious lack of communication. We recommend to all parties; CO, MPs, whoever -- talk more. Discuss what's going on and how to go about it, so that extremely messy situations like these can be avoided.


    • Regarding the issues between the CO/XO/CMP, we do not find the information relevant to this report, nor do we find the issue to be within the CO Council's purview. However, for the sake of discussion;
      • The CO Council disputes Solidfury7's assertion that they are capable of arresting the Executive Officer on an Insubordination charge for not changing the alert to Blue; the alert system is not a concept outlined in Marine Law, and even if the alert may be required due to an issue with Marine Law, this neither gives the CMP the warrant nor the authority to order the XO to change the alert system.
      • MarpleJones, while the CO is given arrest immunity unless an arrest is approved by High Command, this privilege does not extend to the Executive Officer; by arresting the XO, MPs hadn't taken action against you, they took action against the XO - which they are able to do at any time, in the event that the XO commits a crime (once again, is it up for debate if the XO actually committed a crime in this instance).


    We acknowledge and appreciate Loco52's predicament, and how the BE may ultimately feel unjust. However, consider it from MarpleJones' perspective:
    • He has run into a seemingly rogue MP, who is chasing around a marine for charges that he is unaware of, and is disrupting the other marines in the general area in the process.
    • This MP is not responding to the CO's repeated orders to stand down and explain themselves.
    • When he does respond, he does so by (seemingly) insulting the CO, and then flashing them.


    From this perspective, and with the circumstances in mind, the CO Council has found this BE to be VALID. We understand and recognize that, in certain situations, tunnel vision can set in, and it can be very hard to notice a stray chat message between all the fighting, jabbing, and other logs. However, we cannot and will not punish him (MarpleJones) for logs that you (Loco52) did not see. With the information he had available to him and the events which were playing out in front of him, the CO Council cannot find any major fault in their reasoning which would warrant a warning.

    However, let this serve as a cautionary note to MarpleJones; you are on the edge of an extremely fine line with this BE. Specifically, you took it upon yourself to BE an MP who was attempting to legitimately carry out Marine Law in the arrest of a marine (disregarding any potential breaches of SOP which occurred during Loco52's pursuit of the marine). They were not using lethal weaponry, besides the disarm burst which they had fired, which you were supposedly not present for and had no knowledge of. The only thing that could be considered an issue was the flashing marines in an active AO, where - as the logs show - there were bugs close/in the general area. In short, there was;
    • NO threat to the ship,
    • A minor danger to yourself or your crew, and
    • A slightly meager but acceptable argument that they had undermined your command.


    We firmly recommend that, in the future, you get a FULL picture of the situation before you make the decision to permanently take someone out of the round. Try and talk through the issue, contact the MPs/CMP, communicate. A certain level of RP is expected of players holding the CO whitelist -- we recommend making use of that RP in the future.

    In a final, parting note, the CO Council would like to remind everyone that this is a video game, and the ultimate purpose is for everyone to enjoy themselves and have a good time. We saw a certain degree of hostility in this thread (through all parties), and, frankly, we're not pleased about it. It's inappropriate and sets a poor example for the community. We ask that everyone keep it civil and cordial, and that you treat everyone with the same respect that you would want in return.

    As for this report, however, the CO Council must recommend that no action be taken on MarpleJones.
    Trial Moderator: 4/18/19 - 5/2/19 / Moderator: 5/3/19 - 10/1/19 / Senior Moderator: 10/2/19 - 12/26/19 / Trial Admin: 12/27/19 - 1/11/20 / Mod Manager: 1/12/20 - 4/18/20

    Cerwick/Balakura/etc
    Discord: noah#7322

    Former staff member and long-time CO Council member, now I just wave my boomer cane at people when I want something to complain about.

  8. #28
    Admin Sir Lordington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scsnv View Post
    The CO Council has discussed this report and the information provided at length, and we've reached the following conclusions:

    • The core of all these issues seemingly stems from from a serious lack of communication. We recommend to all parties; CO, MPs, whoever -- talk more. Discuss what's going on and how to go about it, so that extremely messy situations like these can be avoided.


    [LIST][*]Regarding the issues between the CO/XO/CMP, we do not find the information relevant to this report, nor do we find the issue to be within the CO Council's purview. However, for the sake of discussion;[LIST][*]The CO Council disputes Solidfury7's assertion that they are capable of arresting the Executive Officer on an Insubordination charge for not changing the alert to Blue; the alert system is not a concept outlined in Marine Law, and even if the alert may be required due to an issue with Marine Law, this neither gives the CMP the warrant nor the authority to order the XO to change the alert system.[*]

    This is not entirely correct. While the Alert System may not be explained per se in Marine Law, it is an integral part of authorising weapon deployment. It is the duty of the ranking officer aboard the ship to ensure the appropriate code level is set and failing to do so is Neglect of Duty. Whether or not this particular situation required Code Blue is debatable as the alert only states that there is possible enemy activity on the ship which was not the case here, so in order to prevent further similar incidents, the situations that require or permit alert changes will be added to SOP. Furthermore, given the repeated issues with COs and other Command Staff happening upon MPs mid-arrest and having them state charges and generally disrupt them until their questions are satisfactorily answered, MPs will be exempt from following any orders that disrupt an arrest in progress such as answering questions about the nature of the arrest or performing other duties until the arrest is complete. Any enquiries, pardons and sentence reductions can be done once the prisoner is securely brigged.

    Whatever the case, declaring the CMP to be rogue for arresting your XO just because you disagree with them and having them arrested, doubly so on sedition which carries permabrig is never an appropriate response. I'm seeing a distressing amount of this whole "CMP rogue arrest him" lately, and if it continues we'll just have to make the CMP immune to being countermanded by COs like the days of old.

  9. #29
    Senior Member scsnv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Lordington View Post
    This is not entirely correct. While the Alert System may not be explained per se in Marine Law, it is an integral part of authorising weapon deployment. It is the duty of the ranking officer aboard the ship to ensure the appropriate code level is set and failing to do so is Neglect of Duty.
    The charge given to the XO was Insubordination, not Neglect of Duty. The CO Council is not arguing to any other point or situation that has been brought up -- merely commenting on that specific point mentioned. The issue between the CO/XO/CMP has been determined to not be a CO Council issue, and so we are refraining from commenting further.

    The Whitelist Maintainer has been notified of the resolution of this report and will close it shortly.
    Trial Moderator: 4/18/19 - 5/2/19 / Moderator: 5/3/19 - 10/1/19 / Senior Moderator: 10/2/19 - 12/26/19 / Trial Admin: 12/27/19 - 1/11/20 / Mod Manager: 1/12/20 - 4/18/20

    Cerwick/Balakura/etc
    Discord: noah#7322

    Former staff member and long-time CO Council member, now I just wave my boomer cane at people when I want something to complain about.

  10. #30
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    The other things pertaining to this report will be rectified and officially handled at a later time, for all things regarding the Whitelist Infraction for MarpleJones, I concur with the CO Councils Verdict on it.

    This is now resolved.

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