SolidFury - Rule 14

[Whiteflicker]

Player Report

Your Byond ID?

Whiteflicker

Date of Incident

August 30, 2019

Your Character Name?

Anna 'Pepper' Costello

Accused Byond Key(if known):

SolidFury

Accused Character Name

William 'Jester' Crimson

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)

Approx 9 AM (Central US time)

What rule(s) were broken:

Rule 14

Description of the incident:

This was during a Prison Station round. I was the CO during this round and when this 'thing' happened, we had evacuated fairly early - BEFORE the aliens breached the FOB. I wanted to cut my losses, and that kinda made most ungas kind of disgruntled - to the point where they start saying "Mutiny?" and stuff like that.

There was no mutiny though. All that happened was that there was a serious issue with our CL, allegedly, kidnapping some marines and the office being blown open with C4. Which started a clusterfuck. We didn't get to really deal with that, since, three minutes later, the dropship was hijacked.

When the dropship had CRASHED, Crimson starts flashing this marine while having handcuffed a second one to a chair. When I handcuffed the marine for him when he asked for help, and I asked "Why?", he said they were mutineers. Plotted to kill me. We were in the middle of a hijack and he asked me to execute them immediately.

I said "We're being boarded, this isn't the time." Along those lines. Effectively denying an execution. I had no proof they were dangerous to me, at all - and 100% sure they wouldn't have done anything since, well, what COULD they do in that moment?

However, Crimson thought otherwise. he walked up to one with a tactical shotgun, and shot them in the mouth at least 6 times until they were killed. I told him "YOU DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT, CRIMSON!" to which he replied, "On delta I do."

Now, I'm being told from MULTIPLE OFFICIAL SOURCES that Crimson /cannot/ execute anyone just because it's delta alert - especially if they are handcuffed and buckled to chairs, ESPECIALLY after I, the CO, said "No."

I let the second marine go after that. And then we died.

I don't have anything against Crimson's player. But still....... Get your stuff together, man. You're lucky this happened literally at the tail end of the round and didn't ruin the guy's round as a result of your doing.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

I can't really get the logs at the moment and I'm not quick enough to take screenshots in the heat of the moment. But I know for a fact a lot of people saw it happen first-hand. Namely Retrokinesis.

How you would punish the accused:

Kindly remind me he can't field execute people as a Chief MP because he personally figures they're a threat - even on delta alert, despite his whitelisted status.

[solidfury7]

Regarding this situation,

I was following the Delta Alert level procedure.

The relevant screenshot is at the bottom.

It's something I never really have used, other than one other time, when a prisoner broke free during being evacuated, he was also a mutineer, and that was about 6 months ago.

I can say there WAS a mutiny for sure, these individuals were the ringleaders who were calling for it. I know this as I latejoined to both the individuals drumming up support from the marines to start a mutiny, I tried to kit up as quickly as possible, as I did not know the scale of this and I was the only MP on (at this time), I marked the two individuals drumming it up, and I ignored the faint jestings and inquiries of "If there was a mutiny".

During this time, I was informed that there were marines breaching the CIC with C4. So, I sprint there with my base kit, bumping in to a mutineer on the way, I followed procedure to the dot, told him to face the wall, cuffed him and moved to the CIC with him.

Inside the CIC, I cuff him to a chair and I proceed to notice another MP, I yell at them for a few times to assist me to secure the prisoner, he ignores me, I continue a few times and he simply ignores me, before running off to fight the xenos. During this time, I notice the RingLeader Mutineer, so I flash him, detain him and cuff him this chair. During this time, the Ring Leader is sprouting anti-Captain stuff in a room full of marines, the pair kept trying to break out of the cuffs, and I told them to stop resisting or they may be shot. As I couldn't deal with two capital crime prisoners at the same time in the crowded room, my saving grace being the buckled chairs. The Captain tells me they dont have time to deal with the prisoners, so I go back to them and reaffirm to them to stop resisting, I taser the mutineers who are resisting and inform them I think one/two final times, the xenos are now in the CIC lobby, or near enough.

I will contest that "This isn't the time" is the equivalent to an unequivocally no, those who know my playstyle with Crimson is that he is designed to be loyal to the Command structure, to a fault. I would never outright deny a lawful order. I would put this specific situation down to miscommunication during the time.

One of the prisoner continues to escape, after countless warnings with hostiles banging at the door of our stronghold, so I execute him on the spot, as marine law allows.

After it becomes clear that the Captain does not wish for me to proceed with any further executions (if the remaining mutineer tried to escape ect), I immediately stop and let her take the Lesser-Mutineer out of custody, even though my character believed the Mutineer to still be a threat, as this is the chain-of-command.


Retro and another one or two members of staff give slightly different takes on what is permitted (If I recall, this was end-game so chat was moving quickly), I tell the team to dish out whatever punishment they seem fit, and I will speak to Lordington regarding clarification on the area, . Retro told me that seeking clarification would be a good idea.

I immediately message Sirlordington regarding the situation (As he's the go to guy for marine law) and he looked in to it and eventually said


"Sir Lordington
You can authorise lethal force during Delta."


Edit: It's come to attention that my wires may have been getting crossed with another law, as I was adamant that this was permitted, Awan was kind enough to send this link which shows the law I may have been getting confused with.

During this Delta alert, I authorized lethal force against non-compliant mutineers, both over MP radio, and to a super late joining MP (Not the unresponsive one)

[Casada_Radio]

Giving my witness statement as the RO.

Around the time when the evac was successful I asked around with the marines on the situation of FOB mat & ammo. According to the marines, and from what I can gather from them is that the CO evaced with a fully intact FOB and the marines were disgruntled. Naturally, this made me quite sad as we sent 2 crates jam-packed with FOB mats and ammo to the FOB.

Later, I heard that the CMP has stated in command comms that a mutiny was in progress and that CIC needs to be on lockdown. I first settled some req stuffs and told my req team to hold in req while I go check it out. Essentially I wanna see what's going on and also go as a standby aCO in case they gun down the CO and XO so that things dont go out of hand.

I go up via the Medbay ladders. Along the way I find like 4-5 marines in the hallway. I thought it harmless till I enter CIC itself. CIC has A LOT of marines. I mean a lot. CIC front desk has like 6 marines and CIC itself has maybe 8-10 marines. What surprises me is that with so many marines, no one started shooting. CO and XO were fine and eventually the marines were told to leave the CIC (It was around this time when the Hijack message popped out).

I am not too sure what is the standard to assume if there is a mutiny or not but based on past rounds I have witnessed is that if you see this many marines assembling outside CIC you can safely assume a mutiny might be happening. I mean it's not like 4-8 marines it was 20 marines, some with guns out from what I see when I was coming to CIC.

I dont know much about the CL's case, since I have to handle the 2 new CTs in my req, one of whom blew up our req, when all of this probably happened. But I know there were radio chatter about CIC asking for an engineer to the CL's office to try to get the door open. When I ghosted after dying I did see evidence of explosion in the CL's office.

[starmute]

Logs on the incident



Note there was no official mutiny reported to moderators.

Two other things of note that preface the arrests

Ray Leey and Alexander Jones Break into CL office to get drugs. They were caught by a researcher who injected them with drugs. They cried for help and their squads broke them out using c4. There were a ton of marines up there

Previously XO Alan Jones had told PFC Adam Burns to stop dismantling squad req. Burns thought Crimson was arresting him for that.








Alexander Jones's Arrest and execution

Adam Burns's arrest

CMP William 'Jester' Crimson's logs

Admin pms

Timeline of events




Sir Lordington was consulted after the fact and is not part of this case. Here was his reply.

[Economicairborn]

The ahelp was handled as per the alert announcement.



We were later informed by the developers that it is not intended, and command roles do not have that authority during a Delta Alert.

[Casada_Radio]

Just want to clarify something here since this log in itself makes no sense:

[09:23:56]SAY: Yuri Gennady Gregorovich/-------: CMP called a mutiny
[09:24:21]SAY: Yuri Gennady Gregorovich/---------: He isnt organising

I was trying to say that the CMP called out a mutiny, after reading this:

[09:22:51]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Mutiny
[09:22:54]SAY: William 'Jester' Crimson/SolidFury7 : Lock down CIC now

Someone on comms mistook it as though he, the CMP himself, was organising the Mutiny. I was trying to say that the CMP was not organising the mutiny. Was a bit tired and was keeping my eye and focus on my CTs, so forgive me for the communication error in the logs.

This was also before I went up to CIC.

Another thing is that it was I who gave Adam Burns the permission to dismantle Req cades as he approached me and asked me for it. Of course I didnt know eventually the XO told him to stop.

My reason was this: We ran out of points ordering Spec and SG ammo that was ordered via radio. We therefore had no points to order another 50 sheets of metal. I was worried of FOB situation cause based on the announcements and comms the siege seems fierce and I felt the need to send additional FOB mats in case the engineers need them to plug the holes in their FOBs.

It has indeed been a while since I sent some extra FOB mats and I didnt really send adequate mats. I sent 2 crates and was preparing a third, most of the contents were ASRs spawned ammo, M56D, Sentry & Sentry ammo, and a lil of mats. I had to send mats AND ammo from ASRs since a CT blew up req and took out two of our vendors which does not include the Attachie vendor. The staff did respawn the destroyed vendors but they werent working and the staff can't seem to get them to work for the rest of the game. It was fortunate that ASRs gave us freebies of ammo, though not at our choice(We had 5 M56D boxes sitting in req excluding the ones we sent planetside). I had to reserve some points in case of emergency orders of SG & Spec ammo as well as FOB mats depending on the situation. So I was keeping watch on comms while doing Req duty.

To add on further, I had a CT playing around with ASRs at round start instead of doing attachies & vendors(He was not familiar with Req Line roles and attachies). Not too sure what he did except that I know my Req Platform was fully filled by around 12:20(I know he didnt order mats cause the cost to order mats didnt increase). So you can imagine my req point situation and how req was a mess this round. Add all of those and training and teaching the CTs.

So when Adam Burns approached me and ask me permission to dismantle the cades I just gave the go ahead. I am leaving this here in case someone is wondering if Adam Burns did this without Req's permission and if it adds context to his actions.

And no I did not inform the CMP about this since he woke up really late.

[solidfury7]

As the logs in question show, I authorised lethal force against any mutineers, multiple times, as the Captain failed to respond during the inquiry. This is permitted within marine law and (until recently) dismissed delta alert announcement.

As I said, I requested the Captain BE one of the mutineers as I lacked any Cuffs. The captain informs me that "we don't have time for this" and walks off. Fortunately, another MP arrived and cuffed them. You can see me briefing the MP and yet again, authorising lethal force against the mutineers If they try to escape.

I warn the mutineers to stop resisting, tasering them a few times to stop them breaking out. One of them attempts to break out again and is shot as a result, as xeno are getting extremely close to the Cic. As I believe they are a threat to the Captain, Marine law does not permit me to release them, nor is the route to the evacuation clear. Even as he is trying to break free, he is sprouting retorick such as."youll never crush my spirit" regarding a mutiny.

And as I stated previously, the Captains comment saying "we don't have time for this" is extremely ambiguous which more double meanings than I can list here. It wasn't an order, nor was it clear, it was simply someone saying "I'm busy" in this case. Not to mention requesting someone be BEd because I cannot cuff them is different situation from shooting the mutineers later because he's trying to break free of Cuffs.

There are a few errors with the time line which I've DMed the investigating team about, such as Adam burns being released before I drag people to the Captain. (he was freed after the execution,) and this situation posted by Yuri

[Casada_Radio]

I am going on an assumption that by situation you mean the req situation. I might be able to help the investigation team with that:

1. There should be logs of me yelling at a CT at the early stage of the round. This was the ASRs CT.

2. As for the CT who blew up req, I ahelped about it and Dorkkeli responded. This was also in the early stage of the round

If by situation you meant me giving permission to Adam, then it should show in the logs. There is definitely a conversation of it.

[Whiteflicker]

The captain informs me that "we don't have time for this" and walks off.

- SolidFury

I was the one who cuffed the marine for you, first of all. You were flashing the guy and asking for help, so I used a pair of handcuffs of my own to secure the guy - and you brought him to the chair to be buckle cuffed.

Bear in mind that to break out of cuffs while buckled, you need to unbuckle yourself first. Which requires a whopping entire minute of no interruption. THEN, once you're unbuckled, TWO minutes of freeing yourself from the cuffs; implying you don't get interrupted by the miriad of people that were there.

Second of all, I never walked off. I was right infront of you. At the time that I said that, the dropship had CRASHED. I was still there - which is why I witnessed you go into the armory, TAKE A SHOTGUN, then SHOOT the guy to death. Right infront of me. I told you "We don't have time for this." Because WE'RE BEING BOARDED and the mutiny is, in my mind, IRRELEVANT. If I wanted you to execute the person, I would've told you "Yes, kill him." Or something along those lines.

But I didn't. I didn't say no outright, but I also didn't say yes. So up until the moment you hear me say "Yes," you calm down and wait until I want to execute the person, or do it myself if necessary. Boarding or not. If you defer to the Command staff, then you should be more careful to not go against their wishes; because Captain Costello DOES NOT like executing people unless they're literally shooting at her or her support staff, and you SHOULD know this.

Plus,

We were later informed by the developers that it is not intended, and command roles do not have that authority during a Delta Alert.

It's been confirmed that you can't do it by developers. So yeah, you can't do it. Regardless of if my statement was nebulous or not.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Alright so I've reviewed this.

There will be some changes that Lordington will be making in Marine Law in regards to delta alerts. However yes a CMP can authorize lethals during a detla alert, but this is intended for hostile boarders/hostile forces/hostile threats.
A "mutineer" who is handcuffed is not a threat. You have pepper spray, stun batons, and tazers for a reason. The Captain told the CMP SolidFury7 not to execute people, and the logs show this. If they broke out of cuffs and started attacking marines, then by all means put them down.

However this was a misinterpretation of marine law in my eyes, and was more of a screw up than intentional rule breaking.

I will be issuing a warning to Solidfury for this in lieu of any sanctions.

resolved