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View Poll Results: Remove/replace Corporate Liaison?

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  • Yes

    57 45.97%
  • No

    67 54.03%
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Thread: Do we really need the Corporate Liaison anymore?

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Do we really need the Corporate Liaison anymore?

    Funny thing is with this, I WAS going to do it a day earlier, but I got busy with stuff.

    Picture this, however: Imagine you are a marine, PFC to be precise, standard grunt waiting in line at cargo to get some goodies like any other normal day. Or at least, you think it is a normal day, until you look ahead to the OTHER line and notice a strangely dressed marine... Only they are no marine.

    It's the Corporate Liaison. He has a Marine M10 Helmet, a bullet-proof vest and an marine-issue MK2 Pulse Rifle holstered on his vest, and the first words you hear come out of his mouth involve him asking the cargo staff for Armor-Piercing ammunition and a webbing.

    Curious as to what the hell is going on, you ask why he is geared up like that, and he responds along the lines of "because I hate my job, it's boring".

    And the sad part? He is right. It IS a boring job. What might have been an interesting role of shady business practices and covert operations has been simply reduced to a pencil pusher who often deploys and joins the marines in the fighting because shooting guns are more fun than doing paperwork and dealing with command staff that don't give a shit about them and their company. Hell, even the COMPANY don't give a shit, no matter what you tell them.

    At this point, I wonder what the point of the Corporate Liaison even is anymore. No one really seems to give a fuck about it, and even during actual EVENTS, they often have little impact on it due to said events not involving them in any way. This, of course, results in one of two playstyles: The wanna-be marine and the "if I do enough paperwork, maybe Companysan will notice me OuO" guy.

    It makes me wonder if we'd really lose anything just getting rid of the Corporate Liaison and thus allowing more focus for the marines. Asking for more stuff for them to do is not something that is gonna happen easily, considering that the staff only have so much time to ensure EVERY role has some value in the game. the CL, thus far, is lacking to the point that it really wouldn't be missed if it was gone.

    But that is just me. Anyone else feel the same way about how the Corporate Liaison has gone down the toilet these days, to the point that no one plays them the way they are intended simply due to fun factor?

  2. #2
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    ***cOrPOraTe LiAsIOn WhITeLisT***

  3. #3
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    I have a radical solution to the problem of boring pencil pushing corporate liason. Just don't turn it on. I know its crazy, but if you want to shoot things you can turn on any other marine role in the game.

  4. #4
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    I believe I've seen the very case you're mentioning, and I can say that it is a very rare thing to see a CL request and receive anything from req, much less an M41A. I don't think the role should be removed at all, and I see nothing wrong with a CL deploying as long as he doesn't go trying to join the fight.

    I think the role is especially important now thanks to the upcoming DEFCON system, but regardless of that I still love the role as a way to get drunk and look around the ship and FOB for things to do with your endless supply of cash and drugs.

    I would like to add one anecdote about an event round during which I've played as CL:
    It was UPPvUSCM on prison, with UPP justifying their action due to the xeno testing that was occurring. Apparently they exterminated the xenos and staff, rescued the prisoners, and immediately began hostile action against marines on contact. For a while I went around with marines looking to take pictures to document the UPP activity on W-Y property. After a few misadventures and a couple of self-defensive bursts from my 88mod, I decided to head back up and try to work out correspondence with fax (which, even on an event round, was very difficult).

    Eventually, the UPP commander agreed to stop the fighting if I would surrender myself to the UPP at the yard and act as the 'whipping boy' for the company. I packed Mr. Farwa and all my suits in my briefcase, and went of with the synth. During our intense High RP dialogue, right before I began to walk off with the UPP, the charlie spec jumped in with a scout sniper and bursted the UPP commander in the head, and marines started to pile out and ambushed the scene completely without my knowledge. One UPP frag grenade and a defib later, I learned that the Captain coordinated an ambush with the OW console messages, and I was unfortunately not able to be warned on secured comms due to the capture of SL headsets.

    I think that the CL can serve a very useful purpose during events and regular rounds, especially as heels for the MPs and somebody to talk to for the Researchers. Perhaps a 'Corporate Clause' for the CL needs to be set up to hold up RP standards and prevent CLs from looting and requesting military equipment in non-emergency situations.
    Last edited by davidofmk771; 01-03-2019 at 06:43 AM.

  5. #5
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    I think there needs to be a real conversation between people who consistently play the role and Admins, who are the only ones able to really talk and move the plot forward for people playing it. I get it that sometimes Admins can't answer every fax, and sometimes the Liaison won't be roleplaying properly, but I can at least speak from personal experience that I've played CL multiple times, tried to develop an interesting plot and end up hitting a hard roadblock because no one will give my faxes the time of day.

    The Corporate Liaison is a high-roleplay role; it can move the plot along if it's used correctly and if everyone is playing ball. The problem is, for the CL role to really be worth anything, it has to rely on Admin support. That's the drawback. Occasionally you'll get an Admin who'll respond, but most are seemingly content to outright ignore faxes, no matter the quality of the content or the consistency of reports. I could send seven faxes with detailed progress on an op and it rarely makes the cut.

    It's also a weird, low-roleplay stigma against the CL that makes it difficult. If its not PFCs bashing the suit for existing or Commanders and MPs doing their outright best to stifle or oppose a plot regardless of whether it even involves them in the first place. So that leaves only a few roads left to travel down. Either you can hope the Survivors that actually make it are people who give a fuck enough to roleplay the round with you, or you can work with a competent researcher if and only if someone manages to bring back an egg, but those odds are so far and few that you really can't color anyone surprised when you see a Corporate Liaison armoring up to get a look at the colony themselves. Otherwise, they're just in their office.

    So the solution at hand is this: Admins could do their job, and yes, it is their job. Admins move the rounds along and regulate the roleplay, and if they can respond to CO's who can barely spell, they can give basic objectives to the Liaison who took the time to look up the fucking Guide to Paperwork on the wiki.

    Or, devs can hardcode a way of making the Liaison actually worth something by making it an antagonist role of sorts that has objectives.

    I don't think it serves a purpose to get rid of the role. I do enjoy playing it, it's just absolute suffering to try to roleplay with it when no one, not even the Admins, are willing to play ball.

  6. #6
    Senior Member x31stOverlord's Avatar
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    I'm going to level here. I love the roleplay that CL can make for rounds. I used to play CL all the time before I joined the staff team just to play as the shady, can you trust him, red tape loving person who's only goal in life is to jump the corporate ladder by taking the liasons job on the Almayer of all places. The times I spent writing progress reports and updates to no avail or response was 90% of the time. But, that didn't distract me from the RP on the ship which is primarily what I loved doing anyway.

    One of the only times I really had any response from the admins at that time was, I believe Feweh, who sent a small team (3) PMCs for little to no reason with no objectives or tasks. I believe there was an abnormal quantity of Xenos sneaking aboard or something. So, the rest of the round was spent with my PMCs, mostly in my office under strict supervision of paranoid MPs sent by an even more paranoid Command staff because they had no idea why PMCs had arrived in the ship. But thanks to the players ability to roleplay, we had a blast of a time with no gun play or violence, culminating in my successful evac from the ship along with the PMC team.

    Now, onto the points raised by some of you here. I absolutely try to respond to faxes anytime I see them, I also like trying to put mini objectives for them to do. But most of the time, especially recently, it's been hard to really do much because of how short rounds are. Or how quickly Marines lose ground. Which leaves me slightly annoyed at wasted opportunities and I have no doubt it makes the liaisons annoyed because they can't do what I task them to and feel like they have lost out on a "rare" response.

    What I would like of you is to try to give me some ideas of what you would like to see as responses or what you believe any changes we can make to the liason as a role may potentially be. Try to be reasonable in these ideas, it's unlikely at this time that any code or mechanical changes can or will be implemented, but any actual and good ideas I will personally aim to get the quality of the role improved.
    Wolfgang Schneider - CO, CL
    Roscoe Barrett - CMP, MP, Spec
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    Ex Badmin Manager

  7. #7
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    I have yet to play CL, but it seems to me that there is two main problems with the role. 1) They don't have a goal. 2) They have no real resources to gain that goal.

    While all of CM has some RP as a baseline, such as the concept of the marines going down to the planet not knowing anything of the threat they will face, despite HvX being 99% of all rounds, the CL role is as it is now entirely dependent on the RP of the player and the marine players, barring of the occasional event round where admins involve them. This generally includes their goal as well. Meanwhile the marine players have a clear in-game goal, land on planet, find threat, kill threat. Additionally the Marines have plenty of tools to get to this goal, everything ranging from the tricked out guns PFCs carry to the OB and CAS. What the CL has is money, which is only really useful in a roleplaying perspective, as it has no real game function.

    I think what West Hybrid suggested is a good idea, give the CL some antag-like goals to achieve, that can be randomly generated. This should of course usually be something down on the planet, like getting a specific folder or documents, collecting an egg or a dead specimen of a specific sort, ensure a specific survivor's survival or death, take a photograph of a specific piece of equipment. If it is a predator round, maybe a predator body/piece of gear. And occasionally something more antagonistic, like ensuring that Almayer is self-destructed. The more antag variants should be rare and "low prio" so as to not brand the CL as an out-and-out antagonist every round.

    For this to work the CL needs something tangible to use to accomplish this goal, other than the power of bureaucracy and money. Or at least something to spend that money on. Part might be some kind of equipment for the CL himself, but more importantly it should be something the CL can trade with. Money that can be turned in to Cargo points. Codes to lockers on the ground with special equipment. Experimental attachments to the dropships. Circuit boards for a second autodoc. And as a "backup" a guaranteed W-Y ERT.

    With this the CL can be both a help and a hindrance to the crew of the Almayer, and gives the CL direction.

    Of course, with all this power comes responsibility, and I could defenitely see this as being a whitelist role, although one with probably the lowest entrance threshold.

  8. #8
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    I think a good idea is to tie-in the CL and possibly an 'Intelligence Officer' role (such as this suggestion) with the DEFCON system. Perhaps the CL and IO can compete with each other to acquire intel. The rewards for intel could be unique depending on which side acquires more, such as the CL being able to order unique weapons and Freelancers, or the Intelligence Officer ordering dropship ammo and restricted military hardware.
    This could lead to an interesting change in gameplay as the corporate spook competes with the government spook for the loyalty of command, the crew, and the marines.

    On the topic of faxes, I don't care about much as long as I get a quick generic "Understood, carry on and continue investigating" or "Ensure that the company is not implicated" for my generic paragraph report, but even that seems like much to expect from just admins. I think allowing mods (or mentors if mods already can?) respond to faxes would fix a lot of the loneliness you feel with the fax machine. I trust that someone able to become a mentor understands not to give the CL antag status without good reason and restrictions (such as no killing USCM staff) or to use their OOC knowledge ICly.

  9. #9
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    If you don't like CL then just don't play it. If noone played it, admins would surely have changed it too.

  10. #10
    Whitelisted Captain FGRSentinel's Avatar
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    There's two things I can add regarding the CL, at least from a minimal perspective as someone who hasn't played the role but plays a role that also tends to have little to do in the average round:

    1. Their ability to find enjoyment in the role is based heavily on if they manage to find someone willing to play ball with them or someone that's interested in RP. It's very much similar to the CASEVAC POs on Prison in that if they don't find someone to chat with they spend their entire round either chilling in their cockpit or screaming into their microphones for someone to magically lase a target. If I'm a CASEVAC PO and the CL dropped in to just chat or play cards, I'd be thrilled to have someone to hang out with.

    2. Their skillset limits their ability to find something else to occupy their time with if they can't find anyone to RP with and prevents them from directly impacting the round if nobody wants to take part in their plans. The CL has literally no skill in anything, which means even benevolent CLs can't help in any way while CLs that want to cause trouble have to rely entirely on their bag of tricks (which really serves no purposes other than to bribe other players, force others to do what they want, or just to look like a rich asshole) to do anything. As far as I know, they can't use tools to hack into places, they can't open pill bottles that they get from Medbay, they can't directly do anything to help or hurt the Marines beyond their implants, Utrazine OD, breeding (and possibly releasing) xenos on the ship, and just shooting someone in the face. It's kinda like how the PO doesn't have any medical skill for CASEVAC and lacks the leadership skill to help with OW if there's no need for an extra pilot.
    Retired CO Councilor (Winter 2019-Spring 2020, Winter 2020-Spring 2021)

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