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Thread: Xeno game design question

  1. #21
    Senior Member kooarbiter's Avatar
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    it's funny having the retrospection to see many of these complaints levelled in the opposite direction

    I always wanted the marines to match up to their cool (if self applies) moniker of "ultimate badasses" that doesn't mean nerf xenos to the ground or make them not a threat, in fact them being so dangerous and lethal is what could define the marine's strength by contrast, while the xenos are mysterious, uncomprehesively effecient, and unpredictable, the marines are strong, tunnel visioned and with the combined firepower no other infantry faction could hold a candle against save for the UPP

    don't nerf marines to make it balanced, buff xenos, make them both super deadly, scary enemies that nobody would ever want to fuck with, the marines could completely demolish any foe it set its undivided attention on, and the xenomorphs can easily and effortlessly destroy any individual unlucky enough to be in their path, with abilities catered to psychological and biological warfare
    Ana bow: the perpetually ramboing, british, breakfast eating Charlie boot that always skips deployment on ice planets and loves a good cup of tea.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kooarbiter View Post
    it's funny having the retrospection to see many of these complaints levelled in the opposite direction

    I always wanted the marines to match up to their cool (if self applies) moniker of "ultimate badasses" that doesn't mean nerf xenos to the ground or make them not a threat, in fact them being so dangerous and lethal is what could define the marine's strength by contrast, while the xenos are mysterious, uncomprehesively effecient, and unpredictable, the marines are strong, tunnel visioned and with the combined firepower no other infantry faction could hold a candle against save for the UPP

    don't nerf marines to make it balanced, buff xenos, make them both super deadly, scary enemies that nobody would ever want to fuck with, the marines could completely demolish any foe it set its undivided attention on, and the xenomorphs can easily and effortlessly destroy any individual unlucky enough to be in their path, with abilities catered to psychological and biological warfare
    +1

    The solution is simple - make the rounds exciting for marines again! Let us feel the same unease and tension you can only feel as a lone Survivor.
    Aspiring survivor xeno main that never plays either. 5th most hated redshirt main on CM. Support roles connosieur. Extremely bad at combat.

    Survival attempts/times survived so far: 14/4

  3. #23
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    Im glad im not the only one frustrated with the design so far. Its a clusterfuck of nonsense logic and then trying to balance nonsense logic. Ancient xenos need more health, speed, and stopping power, right now they are fragile compared to the old days, and for the love of god why did we have a disarm nerf? Its impossible to capture a marine unless they are in paincrit and close to death, and because of that xeno numbers will always whittle in the marines favors, especially on maps like Prison and Solaris where its already cqc. Id really like to see those two changes take priority and then go from there. Common sense updates people. Also since were on the subject, why is body blocking still a thing? If one xeno is on help intent and the other isnt, the one on green should still be allowed to pass. I die more from body blocking, claymore, and grenade spam than anything else in this game by a long shot

  4. #24
    Member Asian_047's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty40 View Post
    Im glad im not the only one frustrated with the design so far. Its a clusterfuck of nonsense logic and then trying to balance nonsense logic. Ancient xenos need more health, speed, and stopping power, right now they are fragile compared to the old days, and for the love of god why did we have a disarm nerf? Its impossible to capture a marine unless they are in paincrit and close to death, and because of that xeno numbers will always whittle in the marines favors, especially on maps like Prison and Solaris where its already cqc. Id really like to see those two changes take priority and then go from there. Common sense updates people. Also since were on the subject, why is body blocking still a thing? If one xeno is on help intent and the other isnt, the one on green should still be allowed to pass. I die more from body blocking, claymore, and grenade spam than anything else in this game by a long shot
    xeno mad
    Jaidon Wise - The CM Zoomer

  5. #25
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    Been playing off and on since 2017 as both marine and xeno, only recently made a forum account to bitch about the design choices as of late not making any sense. Not xeno mad, player mad. Playing as a marine no longer feels as fun as it used to. Its all devolved to a meta playstyle that the devs have implemented either on purpose or by incompetence lately and not about skill and robustness like before. There are more 1 hit kills in the game, and stun locks in the game than ever before. Sure neuro was aids for awhile back in the day but we should have LEARNED from how shitty stuns are in SS13 and stop making them more common. Buckshot/slug stun is perfect and thats about it. I dont have many marine complaints because its obvious thats where alot of time gets spent by the devs. They fixed most of everything besides fuck impalements im tired of ruptured organs from a single attack even wearing heavy armor and loaded with meds its a trip back to the ship
    Last edited by Sixty40; 09-21-2019 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty40 View Post
    -Salt Snip-
    > Complains that benos are weak now
    > Complains that playing marine was fun before
    > Benos are weaker now and somehow marine gameplay dissolved into meta playstyle, because otherwise they can't win
    > Contradiction?
    > Profit?

    Benos mature so fast in comparsion to what used to be, they can't get that much power as Ancient. Yeah, add even MORE power to benos after a bit of waiting, I bet this doesn't encourage metarushes from marines and delaliening from benos.

    Tackle nerf works basically only on castes that shouldn't be good at capturing (like ravs, crushers etc). Drone and evolution from that branch of benos can reliably one-click-stun with their chance on disarm. Just check it out yourself.

    Whole point in comparing benos to what they used to be is just stupid. They had their 75% biased winrate and their gameplay was so basic, simple and with a lot of "Get out of the jail free cards" that even a monkey would be able to learn most of castes if you would just give it bananas for killing marines.
    "Oh NO! Queen doesn't have charge anymore, she was so fun to play in Yer ol'days, but now me no so entertained!" - Good example of such mindset.

    It's possible to capture a healthy marine. Warrior is a great example. You can swallow that fucker faster than he can ressist out of it. Benos designed to capture can capture and if two are working together, there is no chance they can't capture a couple marines one, or two at the time. And with burst buff, you don't need to capture more than like 5 marines. You have guaranteed atleast 10 larvaes. Capture 10 marines and you can have around 20 chestbursters. Do benos need more? No.

    Why body blocking is still a thing in benos? Well... Jeezz... I know it's very annoying, your fellow beno teammate just shoots burst of bodies directly into your chest from behind, you break a bone, get shrapnel, get IB, get hearth and lung damage and pain crit... Oh wait... It's about marines. Benos need literally 1x1 hallways to really be blocked by another beno, otherwise just click other direction once and here you go, blocked no more. Unless there is like fricking wave of benos charging like those cow-like things in The Lion King in that Canion where Simba's dad dies. Then rest.

    You wonder why you die more from body blocking, nades, or claymore than being shot? Maybe because benos can vanish from marine's screen in a blink of an eye and being shot at (outside of slugs) doesn't slow down them. You can shot and shot and shot and shot and beno won't go slower, it will run away to heal. Only stuns are able to stop said beno and end it for good. Remove all stuns from marines and benos would have to taste heavy nerfs to speed to even get back to that 75% winrate.
    And besides nades, benos can't be stun-spammed. If beno is shoot by two slugs from two marines with one tick of difference, beno will stand up when first stun will wear off. See? All of those code lines just for benos to not cry when two guys are accurate with slugs on the same screen.

    "Its all devolved to a meta playstyle that the devs have implemented either on purpose or by incompetence lately and not about skill and robustness like before."
    If "Skill" and "Robustness" reffers to benos, then I can respond with: "HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH! Funni Joke! Laugh you made me young padawan. Admit that I must."
    Even MetaGaming and PowerGaming requires skill and robustness, beno gameplay in "Yer olde days" didn't.

    "There are more 1 hit kills in the game, and stun locks in the game than ever before."
    Name more "one hit kills" that marines can do outside RPG, or Tank LTB. I bet I can name more "one hit long stuns" from benos.
    Name more than one "stun lock" from marines than Tank running over, or nade spam.
    As I writed before, buckshot and slugs can't spam stun, buckshot and slugs literally push beno away, helping it to escape, when buckshot is around all you need as a beno to be outside of a range, when slug is around, all you need is to move in unpredictable patters. And even if you got hit (requires marksman slug marine), you just got pushed back, you can escape.

    "They fixed most of everything besides fuck impalements im tired of ruptured organs from a single attack even wearing heavy armor and loaded with meds its a trip back to the ship"
    How would you give benos more power while not having this? I'm still against "one hit crippling" when you have heavy armor on and I think it's on right track. Right now crusher charge and stomp has a fairly big chance to not break any bone if you have thrid best armor in the game (heavy armor if beno mains can't follow).
    Last edited by CABAL; 09-21-2019 at 07:56 PM.
    REDEMPTION

  7. #27
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    >assuming im a xeno main bitching and that the xeno's just aren't fucked up right now.
    Marines are in a very good state and I have little to bitch about besides:
    -The recently added sentinel spam (which isnt all that effective unless you have a bunch),
    -Friendly fire(reduce bullet damage taken by half ONLY on non HvH rounds, we did this in a test run a year ago and there were no problems),
    -Instant crit organ damage via dancer or rng xeno slash.
    Besides those 3 points, I enjoy the state of marines, besides the meta tactics.

    The xeno's tho, fuck man, they dont feel right. Feels like everyone tried to go a seperate direction with them and broke them, hence the whole fucking point of this thread. They are not nearly working as well as the old systems, so yes im comparing. I like the idea of the different strains, mutators fucking broke xeno's and made them godly, strains just diversify xenos into better specific roles. What im not a fan of is the speed nerf, light armor marines run at the same speed as the bigger slower xenos while being able to lay down volleys of fire. 1 grenade can be tossed in a room, then another, then another, then another. There was a test patch that fixed this and dealt larger health damage instead of stuns, I loved it, marines even won during the tests. Marines dont have to worry about neuro spam anymore so id like to see grenade spam dealt with better. RPG's are fine damage wise, but they shouldnt be able to zoom, too often ive been assblasted by blue fire not knowing an RPG unit was even in my area. Same issue with claymores, usually no warning and then instantly unconscious. Any marine close by has ample time(16 tiles to run) before my xeno gets up from the explosion. Anyone nearby will instantly kill a smaller xeno. a better change is to remove the stun, still allowing any close by onwatcher to the explosion to still easily kill the xeno with a single accurate burst or two for a t3, but still give the xeno a fighting chance to dodge and weave out. Capturing infected marines needs to be easier. You mention that yes specific xenos if robust along with an intelligent queen can shit out numbers, but rarely do we get that. In a perfect world, or 1 out of 20 matches sure, instead the devs just gave us bigger starting numbers to compensate. In the old days, which you were there for, capturing was the best play for xenos, and hives would almost always push for captures. I remember rounds of 12-20 marines getting snagged. Lately no captures are happening. I have yet to see that happen in many months. Its all a murder fest because capturing is too difficult and everyone has a macro to instantly whip out a shotgun and blow you away or to instantly pick up a fallen gun when pounced. Bodyblocking needs to be fixed and LITERALLY everyones dumbass arguement is "But im a marine main and I have to deal with FF" well then fucking nerf FF too. We have before for like 3 days. It fucking worked until ONE HvH round and the dumbass admins said "oh its broken get rid of it" like no shit? Its gotta be custom set so that it doesnt apply during HvH round and thats alot of work so nobody will get it done. They need to have a separate branch of the server code for custom events or HvH, like an actual game mode and not just some hastily spawned objects

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