A Ramble on RULE 4 (NOT CLICKBAIT)

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Here�s why I don�t believe it needs to be change.

BYOND is a simple and very old engine, our developers do make tools to help us do our jobs, but here�s the problem as a moderator while observing 100 plus players on the server

When FF logs come in it�s topped in with chat from both sides, deadchat, moderator chat, admin chat (if you�re at that level)
The problem is trying to quickly go through all that spam and figure out was this griefing or was this accidental FF.

Also the problem with changing the rule is what if what this person did was really an accident, now a mod/admin has to figure out we�re rules broken or not.

It�s actually easier for a mod/admin to sleep someone, figure it out, throw some heals.

However I did as Cakey said, and told mods I don�t want people punished for the natural reaction and that they shouldn�t be noted unless after being told �ahelp it next time� and they ignore it.

[Vispainius]

As a rule I'd rather retaliate. How can I not react to a action taken in game where everything I perceive should be in an IC fashion?

From personal experience sometimes I've been aheal'd after being griefed and sometimes the case had been ruled perfectly legit.

"Oh Vispain that could never happen." Nope, it's happened a couple times.
You want an example? A mutiny happened without the admins permission. In said mutiny, it started while we were all at the memorial. I was the CO. I gave my speech to the 40+ marines and we were all about to exit when suddenly a SL walks up to me, PBs me after a copy-paste statement and then the room turns into a madhouse of marines killing each other and running to just live.

Long story short, maybe some people did get ahelped but even 10-15 minutes later after I had been killed and revived by the synth (not an admin), there were still marines being helped my medics.

Sure, admins may aheal in a grief situation, but why should I let myself die to an act I perceive could still be IC and then go begging an admin, "Hey, I let myself die can you plz aheal?".

I have yet to ever be noted for defending myself or another IC to a grief situation (that wasn't immediately stopped by admins as most often is the case). I've been warned off the record sure, but I'd rather take a off-the-record "Please don't defend yourself again next time you get griefed" then a, "Sorry, too bad, it turns out it was IC cause of 'xxx' as has happened to me before."

TLDR: I'd rather defend myself IC and deal with it as such rather then go bitching to admins about needing an aheal every time I get, what I may consider, griefed.

"Waah! Mean Alpha baldie shot me in the back of my head and killed me intentionally admin. This is grief!"

[Hunk1]

Here is my two cents on this: The main reason why i always ask to people to not retaliate it's because it takes a long while on log diving to judge who attacked who.

Also, you already have one enemy (possibly two if Predators decide to hunt you down), You don't need an marine enemy. This is why griefing is not allowed, it would speed run for the xenos to kill you.

It's always easier to PM one people, the griefer, to find out why he done it, than pm 4-5 people, turn all my preferences off (because mods when spectating can listen all the chat and radio chat from the world.) to try to catch up with the pms.

I had a issue once when i directly involved on one situation when a player griefed, i talked with him, accepted my mentoring, and ended up mentoring him after he was dead, i gave him an aheal, and players when on LOOC: "Wooo, Power abuser, fuck you, you know what you did, Mod Abuser, going to staff report you." But i was happy that i did the right choice and the player still plays here without an rule break.

Sometimes, it worth to not slap the banhammer on them and try to mentor them. Sometimes, it's easier to punish, depends of how player acts towards our PMs. I even had experiences when i said, "hey, you broke an rule, why did you did?" guy said: "Just to Grief, Sorry." and ended up banned. If you solely want to kill other people There are LRP servers all around like Bad Deathclaw or even WW2 Server (don't remember the name).

[CABAL]

If you solely want to kill other people There are LRP servers all around like Bad Deathclaw or even WW2 Server (don't remember the name).

Oy Mate! I take direct offense from this lie. TOXIC!

You can be forced to Fuse like in Steven Universe, but you can't be killed on sight unless you are Legion/NRC against each other.
It happened to me few times, aheal, or syndie mediborg spawned on top and defibb proceeded every time.

[ChainsawMullet]

Pretty much agree with Vispainius, since griefing seems to come down to random perspective for the staff handling it, I'd rather risk "responding to grief with grief" than being killed out of nowhere and having my round ended instantly "because it was IC for x reason you had no reason of knowing or seeing".

[Troika]

Telling people not to retaliate goes against human nature too. If someone hits you, you naturally want to hit them back.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Telling people not to retaliate goes against human nature too. If someone hits you, you naturally want to hit them back.

The problem is people see it as a reason to go LOL TIME TO SHOOT BACK, and go beyond retaliation, and others end up getting hit.
It's so much easier for us to throw you an aheal, it really is.

[Nanu308]

Hmm today i shall deal with an ahelp about someone shooting...

Oh god oh fuck there is 4 people to talk to and loggs show em all shooting each other and they all claim they just retaliated but the first person says it was accidental FF Oh god Oh Fuck Help

[CABAL]

Hmm today i shall deal with an ahelp about someone shooting...

Oh god oh fuck there is 4 people to talk to and loggs show em all shooting each other and they all claim they just retaliated but the first person says it was accidental FF Oh god Oh Fuck Help

The one thing to discourage FF is to make it a bit punishable. Baldos will think twice about shooting near their comrades. I see this as good thing.

[havokman]

The one thing to discourage FF is to make it a bit punishable. Baldos will think twice about shooting near their comrades. I see this as good thing.

Baldos will shoot no matter what. Or they will stand there and stare when they should be shooting. The inability to tell when it is or is not appropriate to fire their weapon is a fundamental part of the baldo condition.

And that's not to mention that some FF isn't the fault of the shooter. If some moron (or stealth griefer, with this rule) walks in front of me as I am unloading a HPR down a chokepoint (and have been doing so for the last 10 seconds), I do not want that moron being permitted to turn around and PB me.