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Thread: Pyro Spec: A subject of debate

  1. #1
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    Pyro Spec: A subject of debate

    I currently have a problem with the pyro:

    It can't damage ravs ... period ... or queens.

    Now, I'm not saying that ravs and queens should be able to be 'tagged' by flames, but they shouldn't have 100% gAmEr immunity from it.



    Now, I would be perfectly fine if ravs and queens still stayed immune to normal/green flames, but here is my problem:

    There is almost ALWAYS a ravager at the front, and as a pyro spec it is completely frustrating how USELESS you are against a big 'ol red ravager who can just rofl-charge into you, and drag you through your own flames and kill you or de-limb you.

    I made a gitlab for this, and it's being completely shut down by people. Why? Because people complain 'Pyro is literally the counter to every xeno' ... uhhhh ... no it's not.


    Does pyro:

    INSTA-KILL like SADAR does? ... no
    Have super-long-range and/or super-long-range-burst abilities like sniper/scout? ... no
    Have stunning ability like SADAR or grenadier? ... no
    Have a bullshit counter that every time you use blue-flame a ravager pops around the corner, charges, and drags one of your marines or even yourself to blue flames and INSTANTLY H U S K them? ... YES


    Pyro is literally the only specialist kit that has such a hard counter, it's not even funny.

    Yeah sure, SADAR, Grenadier, and sniper have FF and close-range counters, but that requires you to get close to them without getting noticed, or buckshotted by another marine.
    Yeah sure, scout spec has ... wait ... scout spec doesn't really have a counter, it's just general PFC+++ kit.
    But Pyro spec can do almost literally NOTHING against a ravager or a queen. All they can do is retreat, and if it's a charging rav (which is faster than you) ... god fucking help your soul and pray to RNJesus you don't get de-limbed with one charge and sent back to the Almayer for 20 minutes to get a new fucking hand.


    Pyro spec's blue flames are ... ho ho ... get this ... pyro spec's blue flames are virtually LIQUID THERMITE ... WHICH BURNS AT NEARLY 3-5 THOUSAND DEGREES CELSIUS ...

    S-so you're telling me ... a big BIOLOGICAL organism that has ARMOR ... can r- ... HA ... HAHAHAHAHA ... CAN RESIST THERMITE?!?!? WHAT A FUCKING JOKE!


    Also, who the heck pushes at T1-T2 without at least a T3 for support? Ravagers can't really be effective anywhere else than on the front or with a large group of xeno pals, so good luck being useful on the front.



    I have a proposition:

    Make ravs and queens ... RESISTANT to fire (as in can't be caught ON fire) instead of IMMUNE to fire (can't be damaged period) or ...
    Remove pyro spec, because all it takes is ONE regular or god-forbid BLUE flame, and ONE charge or screech, and it's over for you and/or 1-3 other marines.




    oh, and remember, blue flames INSTANTLY H U S K marines now ... fun times.

    The Git-Lab:
    https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/7549
    Is an Ambidexterous marine and xeno main.

    Anekcahap "Kneecap" Volkov
    Agent X41833N

    "Some of the best words are never said, but are rather understood."


  2. #2
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    Seconded. I don't mind the idea of certain xenos not being able to be lit of fire, but any xeno should take damage if they're standing in the flames. Rav and queen included. Having certain classifications of xeno be completely immune to fire makes about as much sense as other classes was completely immune to bullets. In that it doesn't make sense, either from a balance perspective or from a common sense perspective.

    I don't agree with removing the spec entirely though. I would rather see it stay as is over being removed. It does have some serious area denial, and it's important not to overlook that. An attack can be held off or a retreat can be covered by a good pyro spec. Assuming that there are no Ravs or Queens there.

    Hell, I moved away from the mini pyro pfc kit because ravagers just look at you as a free kill.

  3. #3
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    Yes I agree

  4. #4
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    Mini PFC was a mistake, hot take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnwaveringGrey View Post
    Seconded. I don't mind the idea of certain xenos not being able to be lit of fire, but any xeno should take damage if they're standing in the flames.
    If every Xeno were to take damage from flames, the damage from pyro would have to be nerfed substantially. I have played multiple rounds as a Xeno, matured to the point of Ancient Defender, a class well and truly capable of tanking entire magazines, but have been wiped out in ten seconds flat because I walked through an orange flame and couldn't retreat quickly enough to put myself out. And that's without any marines pelting you. Unless the sheer amount of damage they're capable of causing is addressed, pyro needs a hard counter.

  6. #6
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    It's a pretty simple choice really. Either keep the current damage and also keep the current hard counters, or you nerf the damage and also nerf queen+rav immunity to just high resistance.

    Also, you're not mentioning Crusher and queen as counters to GL spec.

    Also, the realism+lore argument doesn't really make sense here considering marines can just take some pills and be fine with IB, ruptured lungs; and how acid damage really doesn't differ from fire damage at all when xenomorph's acid in lore could almost melt through the Nostromo's hull.

    Also scout spec, outside of the Impact ammo buff, has been in the gutter for a long while now ever since xeno's armor system got reworked. So yeah, so much for PFC +++
    Last edited by DefinitelyAlone0309; 09-11-2019 at 05:38 AM.

  7. #7
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    Pyros are worthless till those green or blue flames crawl up your hives hidyhole. Pyros main issue been getting enough of the green/blue flame canisters to do anything, they have to be careful with not running out of there special juice.

    Otherwise just too many pyro PFCs make the Pyro spec well somewhat lame.

    Also the queen can resist those heats in lore I think, the queen actually is a one man army that should murder a whole platoon like ours like it was child's play. It a 15 ft monster that can brush off bullets and run at 25mph. It can and will murder the shit out of an army. Now the queen can't resist the those heats forever and are meant to get hurt eventually but they are very very tanky and resilient to flames.
    https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Queen_(caste)

    Ravagers, no word on flame resistance. Instead they would be 15 ft monsters that can probably cut open a tank like it was a can of sardines. It could 1v1 the queen and come out on top. Yea.
    https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Ravager

    The predalien take note couldnt fight ethier the queen or ravager probably lore wise.

  8. #8
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    On other notes:

    Sniper spec has like 1 viable ammo type, which is flak.
    RPG spec can only really hurt Rav/Queen/Crusher with AT rocket. HE doesn't do shit to queen/crusher/Rav (thanks to the explosive resistance buff after the rework), and WP doesn't do shit to Rav/Queen/Crusher (because Crusher has more than enough health to back out safely)
    GL spec. Sure, let's imagine up a world that incend nade actually does damage. It's still not this world though

    With 4 other specs being offensively minded, can't Pyro spec take the support role? Clearing weed, blocking flank, making it way harder for xenos to assist in a screech push are all very viable roles for Pyro spec. Then you can just grab a sidearm and put it on your belt and at least you have something to whip out when facing Rav/Queen

  9. #9
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    yall focus on 1v1 TOO FUCKING MUCH. Xenos win 1v1. Get that through your head. XENOS WIN 1v1. That's how the game works. ITS ALSO A T3, T3 ARE FUCKING STRONG. You want your spec to be a 1 man army, well the fucking t3 are the specs of xenos.

    Now that we got that out of the way. Pyro isn't just for damage. Its for crowd control. If you make everything take damage from fire then nothing can attack when pyro/flamers put down fire. Why do you think xenos just sit on the other side of fire looking at you? Cause it does a billion damage to run through it. If you make it where no xeno can go through fire to stop the retard flaming then A: it completely shuts down all xeno pushes making marine retreats free and making fob impossible to break and B: it lets marines push xenos back cause they can just flame, wait for flames to go out move a few tiles flame again over and over until xenos are pushed into a corner. Everyone who complains about ravagers doesn't play xeno. Yall have no idea what removing fire immunity would do to the balance of the game.

  10. #10
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    Remove fire immunity but make ravagers slice marines in half and queens able to just snatch marines and send them to the dark void that is the hive and dchat land. Oh and make the queen able to toss marines and have the toss break every bone while having her tail shiskabob any poor baldie hit by it leading to instant perma death by lose of heart.

    Or you just want to shot at puppie Ians really and call it marine major every time.

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