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Thread: Autonomy for Pilots: Close Area Support and What [Has] To Change

  1. #1
    Whitelisted Predator MarpleJones's Avatar
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    Autonomy for Pilots: Close Area Support and What [Has] To Change

    With the discussion about roles finally getting wound up, I believe it is about time to make a discussion thread about the current state of Pilots. And I decided to take the initiative for it.

    Summary and Details
    Intermission:
    Close Area Support has always been in a tight location. Relying on marines to make calls is beyond wrong; not a single role in the game should be dependant on others. The PO is (respectfully) the only role in which you are at risk of doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING during the entire round, especially on CAS duty.

    The problem lies in how the role works - you are tied to your dropship, and leaving it would risk missing out a call. When you miss out on a call, you feel frustrated, hence you should always stay in your dropship and be ready. But when you don't receive a call, you go completely batshit insane, realizing you wasted your entire time on the role doing absolutely nothing (above all else - on
    LOWPOP).

    Saying that you are not tied to the dropship, and that you can instead help transport, is in essence saying that 'CAS shouldn't be used'. But the thing is; CAS can be a gamechanger. It can turn the tide with a well-placed firemission, or save multiple marines with MEDEvacs. The reason it is having such negative backlash is that it's cluttered with flaws, the role "CAS PILOT" in itself became a meme.

    Causality and Effect:
    One more argument for the sake of the role.
    1. Because of every round running differently, we always have the chance of people not utilizing CAS.
    2. If a round moves this way, pilots receive a negative experience from the role.
    3. This leads to
    less people acknowledging CAS PO, avoiding the position altogether to not feel frustrated, leaving the pool of people to take the job.
    4.1. With less seasoned CAS Pilots in the pool, newer players take the role. These tend to do
    alot worse CAS runs due to them being greenhorns.
    4.2. With overall less CAS Pilots in the pool, people utilize CAS less frequently.
    5.1. With worse CAS Pilots, people do not trust CAS, and utilize them less frequently.
    1. Because of 4.2/5.1, rounds of people not utilizing CAS increase.

    And the worst part? This loops. The role has died off for most of us because of exactly that.
    It's not fun - it has died off since its prime.


    Benefits and Implementation
    Marines - Changes to the FLY-BY System:
    With the issue of the fly-by being far too reliant on proper marines to work, a change must be made to have a system which is both *fair*, and *enjoyable* for all parties involved. There are a handful of aspects to go through, and since this is a 'general suggestion' thread, these ideas will be open for discussion. These are things which came up from the top of my head:

    Change Details
    Remove Dependance Allow the CAS Pilot to be able to freely choose Firemission and Support Location. Not only would this remove the need of having to rely on marines, but allow the role to flesh out into something as important as the Tank, and as similarly reliable in the right hands.


    • Note: Additions must be made for it to avoid A) Metagaming (Carpet Bombing T-Fort/Hive, pre-encounter), and allow B) Counterplay. These problems are 'adressed' in the following suggestions.


    Change Details
    Add a Signal Tower In essence, by canon, all Dropships function on basis of 'signals'. There is a good reason why you can't land anywhere else but the designated Landing Zones (Aliens VS Predator shows how detrimental a proper signal is to landing the birds safely). Hence, it is safe to assume that signal flares and binocular lazes serve that safety function - however, as stated before, this doesn't work as intended. As such, adding a deployable Signal Tower, covering a set distance from the center of deployment designated for the Pilot's "AREA of OPERATION" would serve it's duty both logically and in gameplay.


    • Note: This is to be taken similar to the newly added Telecommunications Array. Since the Signal Tower covers an entire area, the Pilot should be able to have full, limited camera functionality on fly-by mode. How far the Signal Tower should extend is a question of testing. One problem this would pose are sudden attacks by the CAS - both inducing Friendly Fire or unfair Xeno Gibs. In essence, this could be solved by increasing wind-up, or having a different visual effect upon locking an area for a Firemission.


    Change Details
    Mapping Allow the Pilot a map similar to the one in CiC to overlook. This is strictly speaking not connected to the points mentioned above. The map in itself would point out signal flares and lazes, or the "AREA of OPERATION". This would allow the pilot to have a better idea of the general location of what he is looking at.


    • Note: This suggestion is a minor addition, and only serves it's purpose if added with either Signal Tower or FREE CAS. It is not a prime aspect of the thread itself, and merely adds to it.


    In essence, there are only two ways to solve this. And, judging by least problems posed, and most problems solved, I tend towards the second solution of a Signal Tower - of a limited area to use. If anything, this could also be connected with the current system - allowing both versions to co-exist with
    one-another. However, a more open-area CAS will require at least some form of counterplay, as this is strictly speaking an incredible marine buff. As such...

    Xenomorph - Retaliate the Sky:
    With additions made to the CAS-System, Xenomorph MUST have a way to retaliate or counter-act the more open versatility of Pilots. With these changes, they are severely limited in both their pushes and their frontline battles. Changes in favor of the Aliens MUST be made to allow the flow of the game to be considered fair. As such, I have compiled several suggestions below to act as the "Yang" in the "Ying".


    Change Details
    Anti-Air As several of the readers may be aware, there are already plans made on adding an Anti-Air Function to the Xenomorph, which is fantastic. In functionality, I imagine the system to work as a deployable structure (similar to the ones seen in the DEV-TEST) which covers an area to be completely void of any CAS-Attempts until the Anti-Air Array is destroyed. If a CAS is called in the area despite the imminent threat, the CAS will be A) Denied, showing no effect, and B) Postponed, adding a cooldown until the ship is ready to fly again. As such, whilst allowing more freedom to the CAS Pilots as a whole, they will be limited in where they can actually be able to make firemissions / MEDEvac.


    • Note: This would work incredibly well with the next Suggestion, "Damage".



    Change Details
    Damage Allow the Dropships to take critical damage from failed fly-by attempts. In essence, the dropships will consist of parts similar to the tank, which have to be autonomously repaired during their docking to Almayer. This does `not` involve damaging dropship parts on transport; Xenomorph should not be able to simply melt engines on the ground.


    • Note: Additionally, I would severely vote for two options of implementation. A) A quick, manual repair, and a longer cooldown until next fly-by upon repair. B) A long, automatic repair, with the cooldown until next fly-by staying unaffected. Which is better remains a matter of discussion.



    Change Details
    Statistics Changes to Cooldown, FLYBY stay-up time, CAS damage and similar to accommodate the previous changes. None of this would work if proper recalibrations to the numbers aren't made. Of course, this is a subject of testing, but it is as important to everything stated above.


    • Note: This suggestion is a minor addition, and only serves it's purpose if added with the previous points. It is not a prime aspect of the thread itself, and merely adds to it.


    Conclusion:

    There is no conclusion to be drawn. It is merely a suggestion.
    This discussion thread serves to voice opinions / remarks / criticism. This thread is open to all.
    All of these points have been posted to GITLAB, feel free to vote your personal decision there.
    Last edited by MarpleJones; 09-11-2019 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Added the GITLAB Link; Minor Changes to Formatting and Grammatic

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    These changes would make playing po alot more enjoyable, its really annoying when you just realise nobody is gonna call for cas the hole op and you waste your hole round doing nothing.

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    Spawning pool for infinite larva and you can have your free range CAS, you do know CAS or mortar done right can basically solo the hive? Free range CAS would just delete tier 3s and make boilers useless since they will be CAS to hell and back. CAS needs to be chained or aliens need an easier time pulling out tier 3s to replace the ones lost. Or you can equalize the rounds so it is 4 squads of marines not 8 squads worth really

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    Senior Member Madventurer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon View Post
    Spawning pool for infinite larva and you can have your free range CAS, you do know CAS or mortar done right can basically solo the hive? Free range CAS would just delete tier 3s and make boilers useless since they will be CAS to hell and back. CAS needs to be chained or aliens need an easier time pulling out tier 3s to replace the ones lost. Or you can equalize the rounds so it is 4 squads of marines not 8 squads worth really
    Hence why the suggestion had a lot of other tweaks to make it less awful to deal with for xenos.


    I heavily agree that CAS PO needs a rework. It's among the most boring roles, tied with MPs and MTs for the potential to MAYBE have a fun or maybe sit around doing nothing for an hour.
    Tyson 'Bunny' Sphere


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    This topic is definitely in the right direction. I'm surprised the signal flares haven't been brought up. Granted this is about the dropship working independently, so this opens up a few items. Namely, the passive nature of the map and the actions of marines, esp. Intel Officers should be of benefit.

    I'd really like it if CIC / Hangar's Traffic Tower could be involved. A Flight Operator (read: just a Flight Staff Officer + Pilot) could pull info from data, towers, signals, then flares ( in that priority ) to give the flight computer all the pilot needs to attack or support. A Flight Op is essentially a co-pilot and can freely be on a DS or Almayer. It will depend on how far the squadron would want to run. Added Command should be able to set map pings with enough signals up.

    In example, if there are flares and signal flare around on area - that is always going to be visible to the eye. Idea here is to give DS equip the ability to count the lights during any of its passes (Likely you would called this a Retroreflective Cam). This give the added info to CIC, and thus either a Flight Op or Staff can use the info to set pings, etc.

    This suggestion is there to give the role(s) some passive, useful build ups and gives the game code a map to create the result we need. Basically in intent, the Almayer is a small carrier for the dropships and crew. They deserve hails, pings, and an intel mill so its an alive role. Heck, even recover data at the sites Telecomms and Operations/Administrations so ARES has something to work with. All of this is an informal radar, so its easier to implement the idea. Just like how a squad has a mission, is given info known thus far, and is allowed to conduct a mission action in best judgement.

    A Bonus that may happen is MTs can tune Dropships and Researchers can boost equipment/mobile medical items. Intel Officers will have a reason to use DS as a wayfarer in-between runs for both safety and speed. A DS might even be outfitted with a quick read computer for small intel. Dropships could get a EWACS attachment to gather larger swaps of data.

    There's a lot of possibility to expand the Pilot + Dropship combo once we make the ground work for target, site, objective acquistions, so I again agree with this alot.

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    there is no way this would ever be balanced. Without signal flares/dots xenos would have no way of ever knowing where the CAS is going. So basically just just run and hope you arent running right into the CAS. Basically LTB x10000.

    edit: Another thought I had. I dont understand the thought process of making the game worse for an entire side (20+ players) to increase the "fun" for 1 single person. Literally 1 person in the round.
    Last edited by MasterShakeEZ; 09-12-2019 at 02:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShakeEZ View Post
    there is no way this would ever be balanced. Without signal flares/dots xenos would have no way of ever knowing where the CAS is going. So basically just just run and hope you arent running right into the CAS. Basically LTB x10000.

    edit: Another thought I had. I dont understand the thought process of making the game worse for an entire side (20+ players) to increase the "fun" for 1 single person. Literally 1 person in the round.
    This sums it up excellently and I don't think we're going to have it any other way.

    (Please, send USD to: www.JoinBrotherhoodofNod.com)



    PO got one rework (in comparsion to Researcher that waited years) quite recently. Certain Hard-Working individuals said that they are planning adding AA mechanics, so I guess they will have to buff CAS too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    This sums it up excellently and I don't think we're going to have it any other way.

    (Please, send USD to: www.JoinBrotherhoodofNod.com)



    PO got one rework (in comparsion to Researcher that waited years) quite recently. Certain Hard-Working individuals said that they are planning adding AA mechanics, so I guess they will have to buff CAS too.
    They were talking about making the dropship beable to like hover on the battle field and drop off marines anywhere on the map and stuff like that. I don't think they were planning to just let the CAS pilot fly around and bomb stuff on his own like in this suggestion.

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    I like the idea of letting CAS PO's have a bit more freedom, but you got to understand that CAS is without a doubt the marines most powerful weapon"S.

    One good flyby could and have wiped half of if not a whole hive. You have to be careful to balance something like this. And frankly I am not sure how to do it.

    So here's one to the staff team, making changes that will effect us all and piss everyone off for the good of us all.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Madventurer's Avatar
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    The core issue is marines not lazing or signal flaring well. That either makes or breaks the game.

    One option would be to have free-roaming CAS camera, but only in range of certain objects: Signal flares, the LZs (perhaps with LZ detector only), deployable towers like mentioned...

    Suppose you had a 6x6 range of free-roaming on a signal flare. That'd be slightly more freedom in smaller area than previous. It could be larger, but if we went with current 12 offset, free-roam would be very powerful.

    LZ should be free-roam area with perhaps all tiles within 10-15 from the pad being CAS-able?


    In any case, if CAS gets more options for when to fire, not necessarily purely free-roam but designated areas (give CIC the ability to tag and area for free-roam for one minute, with 5-minute cooldown, big visible lazer in middle?), so that CAS is guaranteed to be able to do something.
    Tyson 'Bunny' Sphere


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