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Thread: A Discussion Regarding Map Design

  1. #1
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    A Discussion Regarding Map Design

    So there's been some debate on Metarushes and Megafobbing recently. I had planned to respond but realized my grievances are probably unrelated enough to warrant a separate thread. So here goes.

    I think CM has a big problem with map design. Mainly, the maps are way too linear. This encourages metarushing and makes games kind of stale.

    Let's take LV-624 as an example. Marines will always FOB at Hydro, because they know that the Xeno hive is at the Caves on the other side of the fogwall. They will do this round after round of LV because it's completely unreasonable to tell your squads to FOB at some random place if you know, OOCly, that the Xenos are hived at the Caves to the North.

    It completely takes away any element of reconnaissance, since the Xenos always spawn in one fixed place and Queens are generally very hesistant to move the hive somewhere else, and also because there's not very many good places to move the hive.

    I think the simple solution (not necessarily the easiest) is to expand the maps and randomize Xeno spawns. Using LV again, add an East caves (east of Secure Storage perhaps) and South caves (south of engineering) and let the hive start the round in there. This stops metarushes and also makes rounds less stale, since Marines will have to scout out where Xenos are now and build mini-FOB's on the fly.

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    I think server just got too big for maps that were originally conceived for like 100-120 players (with no tank). Now no matter where the Hive spawns you can be sure a delta crayon muncher is gonna run up and scream "LIZARDS ETA" 10 minutes into deployment.

    The flipside to this is that adding stuff like podlocks and fog just feels forced as hell. In my opinion, taking into account current player numbers there should either make the maps bigger like you say or make a gameplay device that the marines have to tackle in order to get access to the hive's location, think of Trijent's water purification but less sucky.

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    The map section replacer (nightmare creator) was meant to solve this issue with changes to the flow of maps but instead it ended up used for fog holes.

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    Megafob isn't a problem anymore once they put out the spawning pool. If marines sit on defense and do nothing xenos will just keep coming back over and over. As long as they make it where defcon 1 cant be reached by just hiding behind cades for 3 hours.

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    Senior Member Steelpoint's Avatar
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    Infinite xenos is not the answer, since they'll still be young, lower tier, xenos.

    I'm gonna speak out my ass here. I think the best way to encourage Marines to be pushing out of their initial base, is to have the map set in a way that there is another good base location further ahead.

    On LV, the initial base will generally be a small one at the Landing Zone, then the main FoB will be made at Hydroponics. But after hydro, there's no real good base location, ever area forward of Hydro is simply way too open or too far from hydro to reliably make a base work, making a base around T-Fort or the containers is hard because those areas offer near 360 degrees of xeno ingress points, and the HUGE open zone makes it near impossible to lock down the area.

    On Big Red, for example, you usually get a LZ FoB, then, depending on the Xenos actions, you may get a FoB just outside of the Research Podlocks (east or south), this base is far more defendable, xeno ingress points are more limited, but flanks are still there, and the rearline is somewhat more secure (to a degree/depending on Lurkers).

    Ultimately, I think if you want to encourage Marine pushes, give them clear objectives to secure and fortify.
    This is war, survival is your responsibility
    Captain Alan Bentway
    Synthetic: Nicholas
    Hunter Kwei Ikthya-de

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    Senior Member Madventurer's Avatar
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    I have brought up ticking DEFCON score in earlier threads, and this brings me to a new idea.

    Ticking DEFCON for holding objectives that are NOT within two screens from either LZs.
    Perhaps unlock one such location at start, and more by intel. This encourages both pushing out to secure those positions AND holding them instead of rushing into the hive like madmen.

    Drawbacks are there, though. If the spot is too close to the FOB, then it might be far too easy to hold, and if it's all the way near xenos locations, then it might be near-impossible.

    Example starting objective could be Bar in big red? Mark it by a console or similar. Any xeno can disable it, any marine can activate it, slow ticking DEFCON score while active.
    Tyson 'Bunny' Sphere


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    i think that for trijent the water didn't need to be made toxic

    like the map is big enough as it is, and it lets marines know that xenos would always be on the other side

    additionally those checkpoints that are always closed should be open

    multiple points of entry/exit help prevent the rush of just going in x direction since you can't be sure

    LV's tfort isnt multiple points, it's just one big open point which leads to anywhere from 3 to 5 entrances into the caves (depending on nightmare) which is why if they dont immediately push through fort into caves, they stall for a long time before getting anywhere which is more beacuse of the xenos blocking than any confusion in which direction to go

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShakeEZ View Post
    Megafob isn't a problem anymore once they put out the spawning pool. If marines sit on defense and do nothing xenos will just keep coming back over and over. As long as they make it where defcon 1 cant be reached by just hiding behind cades for 3 hours.
    Mhm, yes, it will just be metarushes or metaretreats instead. Or 90% benos winrate. Or both, in all likelyhood.

    This is now segueing into another issue, which is that I don't even know what the intended flow of the round is supposed to be. But that also probably warrants it's own thread.

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    One possible fix would be to extend the map at all four compass points and have caves at each one.

    Randomise spawn to one of them each round.

    Or

    On round start, two of the four cave networks will be blocked off so you can get in them and they can't be used. Keep them guessing.

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