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Thread: SolidFury - Don't be a dick, Rule 15

  1. #1
    Ceyella
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    SolidFury - Don't be a dick, Rule 15

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Ceyella

    Date of Incident
    September 17, 2019

    Your Character Name?
    Addfwyn Meer

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    SolidFury

    Accused Character Name
    Jester Crimson

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    9:30PM

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Don't be a dick, Rule 15

    Description of the incident:
    So, CO annouced something about gathering in hanger, xenos got the shuttle, etc. so i thought the message about crash had gone out, and i didnt notice via my alt-tabbing and this was his response, so proceeded to scream about im bailing out. Jester responds by sprinting into my DS, and swatting me with his baton 3 times while i sit there going what the heck. dragging me out of the DS, alan jones sort of questioned this and after a brief debate, told jester it was his call to get me for desertion Jester then takes me brig, and starts stripping me, when we get DS GONNA CRASH message. so i start begging him for a gun and armor. he responds with something like, not until it crasses, i cant let you go, and juding by his talking into the radio, alan jones was trying to get me let free too. Jester, then, despite inbound xenos, put me in perma, CUFFED in my cell, to a chair, then promptly left me to die after i insulted him. this violates procedure, as i was never told i was under arrest, and i was put in a cell cuffed. With him gone, i procceeded to try and resist out of my cuffs, but xenos broke in and killed me while i was floundering in the dark.

    It was a total dick move to handcuff me to a chair in a locked up perma room as xenos are crashing, it takes 3ish minutes for them to hit, 4 minutes to get free from the double-cuffs. He never came for me, i just up and died in my cell after he broke procedure to be a dick.

    This was ahelped in game, and i was directed by Grimcad to file a player report.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    I cant pull logs

    How you would punish the accused:
    CMP ban, again.

  2. #2
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    I was the moderator who handled this.

    As this is a report on a fellow staff member you have to do this correctly.
    As I felt the complaint was valid: I bumped it up to my manager and to grimcad, who told me to inform the victim to make a player report.


    I feel, or felt at the time: while the charges for the crime were correct (technically), the behavior was.... not so good. I feel that soldfury went out of his way to be a dick to Addfwyn Meer, as the CO wanted to release them but eventually relented to the CMP''s demands. This caused them to be imprisoned during a crash and killed soon after.

    The action of imprisoning someone while you know the ship will be crashing... seems dickish enough to merit a valid note or punishment.
    Last edited by starmute; 09-18-2019 at 03:02 AM.

  3. #3
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    During a red alert scenario, after the dropship was boarded by xenos (but not yet hijacked), a pilot contacted all squads and told them to quite blatantly desert with him on DS2

    After heading there to deal with it, under order of the XO and already hearing him say this (and being en-route to detain him) I reach the PO, who is sat on the DS2 console,

    I immedietely stun him and pull him away from the controls and arrest him for desertion, which is a capital crime. Here is where we have a problem,

    Starmute believe that despite there being a red alert and the PO sitting at the console of the thing he literally said he was going to use to desert, that I should of stood there, verbally warned him to lay down, then cuffed him, rather than stun him and pull him away from the cockpit. At this point I was boinked, for the situation, explained the situation. Captain tries to get me out of detaining him, however legally, due to the crime he did and the fact we had not yet been boarded (But we all knew it was kinda coming)

    Anyway, I send the rest of my MPs to do what was our original plan, while I guarded the perma-prisoner until the DS hit the ship, so I could legally release him (Which I told the prisoner)

    but the DS hit the brig and we were quickly forced to flee, losing one passing MP and the prisoner in the process, and I am pounced and saved by sheer look by passing MPs.

    Regarding you being cuffed to the chair, that was likely a mistake, I was rushing to get some food (yellow hunger) and brief my other MP on our plan to get the prisoner out.

    Due to the location of the hostiles, which literally stormed the brig, we couldn't make it to the cell as the aliens poured in, nor could be other MPs (and the marines who saved me) escape alive.

    Within marine law, you cannot release someone from the brig unless the SD is active (Delta alert) or the ship IS overran.

    Considering that their were no aliens onboard, merely a force enroute, (mid arrest), I could not by very definition release the prisoner. Especially when I was just boinked for deviating from arrest procedure DESPITE it being an emergency situation.


    This is what really frustrstes me, the investigating mod basically tells me "Hey follow marine law to the very dot, but break it" in the same literal investigation.

    It's quite honestly ridiculous and I had already sent a complaint regarding the handling of this situation to Emerald regarding this before this report was posted.

    Anyway, I'll address any further questions and whatnot tomorrow evening.

    Edit: also check the logs and ask any witnesses present, I was obviously looking for any legal excuse to release them (sent an ahelp asking when Delta alert technically started) and I voiced my irritation at being tied down to the prisoner quite vocally,
    Last edited by solidfury7; 09-18-2019 at 03:38 AM.

  4. #4
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    Logs:
    relevant logs between Captain, Crimson and Ceyella:
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Admin pms between starmute and ceyella:
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    admin pms between solid and starmute:
    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Last edited by AcuteCircle; 09-18-2019 at 04:22 AM.
    Former staff, also former Synthetic senator.

    Now just a shitposter and lurker.

  5. #5
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    Since we're talking about the "don't be a dick rule" I guess I should expand my opinion on this.

    There's really two ways to view this, the practical and "Completey in the context of Marine law" context.


    In the viewpoing of being practical, yes I believe you lobbied hard to get Addfwyn Meer into perma. A normal CMP would just shrug and let the PO go when the CO said let em off. You didn't. Following that they could have kept them cuffed and in custody because as you stated "(But we all knew it was kinda coming)". You didn't. A drop ship was on a collision course with the ship and instead of securing the prisoner you decided to make sure they were handcuffed to a chair. To me that was a dick move.



    Regarding MP Law side I saw a whole bunch of violations.

    Two of which are:

    Arrest procedure:

    Verbally inform the suspect you are taking them into custody and the charge.

    Order the suspect to the ground.

    Handcuff the suspect.

    Bring the suspect to the Brig for processing.

    None of this was followed. Baton was used before any verbal warning. Solidfury could argue that Meer was a "Non-Compliant Suspect" however he did not give them a chance to be a non-compliant suspect.



    Release in the event of a catastrophe


    In the event of a Delta Alert any prisoners may be released if the MPs believe that they will not be a threat to the crew. Prisoners that are not released should be escorted to the escape pods. A normal Red Alert is not sufficient reason for a release unless the ship is being overrun by a large hostile force.

    You knew there was a incoming shuttle but had not prepared the prisoner for transport to the escape pods. When it came down you decided to abandon them. That's failing the law and being a dick (In my opinion as a moderator)


    While the charges against Meer were valid, your behavior wasn't in my opinion. It was within your ability both as a person and within marine law to "not be a dick" and.. in my opinion as moderator you did not.

    Again this is all a matter of opinion. You also apparently wrote a complaint about me for investigating this. I would like to know what part of the investigation was against our moderation rules.
    Last edited by starmute; 09-18-2019 at 05:12 AM.

  6. #6
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starmute View Post
    Since we're talking about the "don't be a dick rule" I guess I should expand my opinion on this.

    There's really two ways to view this, the practical and "Completey in the context of Marine law" context.


    In the viewpoing of being practical, yes I believe you lobbied hard to get Addfwyn Meer into perma. A normal CMP would just shrug and let the PO go when the CO said let em off. You didn't. Following that they could have kept them cuffed and in custody because as you stated "(But we all knew it was kinda coming)". You didn't. A drop ship was on a collision course with the ship and instead of securing the prisoner you decided to make sure they were handcuffed to a chair. To me that was a dick move.



    Regarding MP Law side I saw a whole bunch of violations.

    Two of which are:

    Arrest procedure:

    Verbally inform the suspect you are taking them into custody and the charge.

    Order the suspect to the ground.

    Handcuff the suspect.

    Bring the suspect to the Brig for processing.

    None of this was followed. Baton was used before any verbal warning. Solidfury could argue that Meer was a "Non-Compliant Suspect" however he did not give them a chance to be a non-compliant suspect.



    Release in the event of a catastrophe


    In the event of a Delta Alert any prisoners may be released if the MPs believe that they will not be a threat to the crew. Prisoners that are not released should be escorted to the escape pods. A normal Red Alert is not sufficient reason for a release unless the ship is being overrun by a large hostile force.

    You knew there was a incoming shuttle but had not prepared the prisoner for transport to the escape pods. When it came down you decided to abandon them. That's failing the law and being a dick (In my opinion as a moderator)


    While the charges against Meer were valid, your behavior wasn't in my opinion. It was within your ability both as a person and within marine law to "not be a dick" and.. in my opinion as moderator you did not.

    Again this is all a matter of opinion. You also apparently wrote a complaint about me for investigating this. I would like to know what part of the investigation was against our moderation rules.
    You have said there are a whole bunch of marine law violations, but you listed two in total. Considering a pilot, who threatened to desert the ship was sat in what was his escape method, the charge was for a Running suspect, as listed here.

    Non-Compliant Suspect (resisting or running)
    Prepare a non-lethal method of neutralization
    Apply until they are no longer resisting
    Secure the suspect and Inform the suspect of their charge
    Bring the suspect to the brig.

    I am honestly astounded that you are claiming that I abandoned the prisoner like it was a active choice and you're saying that I should be OOCly bound to die needlessly. I really am, it literally says in the logs I am going to release him as SOON as the dropship hits the ship.

    Then a dropship smashed through the brig, with a hive full of xenos and literally swarmed the brig to the point that my other MP died before he could move two tiles, and I was saved by a passing marine patrol who were also wiped to buy me time.

    As I previously stated, it was not delta alert so all those comments in that section are invalid, not to mention someone DESERTING with the last remaining dropship and encouraging the marines is a threat to the operation. This is why capital crimes are not pardonable to even Captains. Its the worst of the worst. Literally in on the same level of sexual assault, murder and mutiny.

    So, your only argument is basically I didn't let them out before the qualifying factors were met. The ship was not being overran by sheer definition, because the hostiles were not even on the ship. Ironically, I take a very literal view on marine law these days because people like to play "gotcha" moments slightest things, which you attempted to literally do regarding the arrest, and then complain when I am taking marine law exceedingly literally moments after. Marine law doesn't operate on "follow it until convenient. You have to follow it word by word, or risk being boinked as you demonstrated.

    TLDR: Reported for not releasing someone fast enough, when the dropship hits the brig.

  7. #7
    Admin Sir Lordington's Avatar
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    Solidfury made one mistake. Leaving the prisoner bucklecuffed. The arrest procedure was followed correctly. Someone attempting to hijack a dropship to flee the Almayer is not compliant. His intention to flee is right there in the logs, so there is no doubt that he was a fleeing suspect. As for the releasing the prisoner, you can't really expect someone to release a prisoner when a dropship lands right in their face smack dab in the middle of the brig, even though from the logs it's quite clear that he had every intent of doing so. Sometimes the DS crash kills you, be it be gibbing you or cutting off your escape route. It happens.

    So then, should Solidfury be jobbanned for leaving one prisoner cuffed? It's at worst an honest mistake, and given the logs show his intent to release the prisoner as soon as the dropship hit, it seems quite excessive to ban him for that. Instead, to prevent this sort of situation from happening in the future, releases will be permitted if there's reason to suspect a large force is en route to the ship in order to allow MPs to preemptively release prisoners upon hearing the hijack message.

    Resolved.

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