Don't know/AdmiralGreene - Rule 15/ CO guidelines

[Rals]

Player Report

Your Byond ID?

Rals

Date of Incident

September 21, 2019

Your Character Name?

Brett McMatherson

Accused Byond Key(if known):

Don't know/AdmiralGreene

Accused Character Name

Isaac Lewis/Trianna Jesowitz

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)

Around 11:30 CST, I believe

What rule(s) were broken:

Rule 15/ CO guidelines

Description of the incident:

This all started in briefing, where synth left top-hats. Three PFCs picked them up and used instead of proper headwear. I issued warning for FFP to each one of them and asked them to take hats off. Two marines took them off, but third marine (PFC Harwood) refused to do so and asked to be arrested. I was going to give him 5 minutes with confiscation of hat (Top-hats can not be obtained via REQ, marines can not get them in preparations and they can not emerge with them on from cryosleep).

When I came to brig, CMP (LCDR Isaac Lewis) ordered me to release this marine. I refused to do it, due to it being unlawful order. CMP claimed, that he can pardon marines for minor crimes, but I told him, that he can not do so. CO (CPT Trianna Jesowitz), however, decided to pardon said marine. I complied with CO's order and asked marine to get proper headwear.

After pardon, I went to Alamo to make sure, that PFC won't deploy in top hat. I noticed another PFC (Who was warned) wearing top-hat and was going to mark him, but I noticed, that Harwood was trying to board Alamo with top-hat on. I arrested him for that (I followed Non-Compliant Suspect arrest procedure, due to Harwood trying to evade arrest by getting deep in Alamo. I would like to say, that I was not going to add resisting arrest to his charges).

When I brought Harwood to brig for second time, CMP ordered me to release him again (He claimed, that CO ordered us to ignore marines with top-hats, but, to be honest, I don't see in logs), when I refused to do so, he stunned and cuffed me. After cuffing me, CMP ordered other MPs to release Harwood and dragged me to his office, where he (CMP) said, that he is firing me. According to SOP, CMP can not fire MPs without arresting them for something. He may, however, demote them, if CO will allow it.

Furthemore, it looked like CO did not know, how pardons work (Or I don't understand them). She claimed, that I can not arrest marine, after she pardoned him. CO did not notify MPs about any SOP changes, thus I think, that she did not modify SOP.

CMP, in my ophinion, commited interfering with an arrest, plus, he fired me against SOP.

Last thing that I want to say is: I talked to TrialModerator on 02.08.2019 and he told me, that CO nor CMP can not order MPs to ignore minor crimes.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

How you would punish the accused:

Warnig for CMP. If CO broke any guidelines I would like to ask council to talk about it to said CO.

[Viperious]

I was the XO this round and based on what happened last time I refused to get involved with a 2 foot poll and instead took a side step and tried to direct the cmp and Co to be careful through LOOC. Though I do recall the CO expressly saying not to re arrest the marine after pardoning him.

[AdmiralGreene]

CO here.

I first became aware of this entire tophat situation when the snyth told me they were putting out hats in briefing. This then snowballed into getting reports of marines being arrested for those very-same hats and my SO's telling me at least one of the squads was outright considering a mutiny if they were going to be arrested over a hat. Since they were handed out by a synth and I really didn't want to bother with something this low on the totem pole right at the beginning of deployment I issued a pardon to the tophat wearing marines and figured that was the end of it.

This is cause of a misunderstanding on my part as to what would constitute double jeopardy and what wouldn't. I assumed the pardon would extend, essentially (and pedantically) to the act of wearing a tophat, and so long as that marine was still wearing their tophat and until they replaced it with another piece of ML violating headgear, or in any way broke the contiguity of the act of wearing said tophat, it would count as the very-same charge of FFP, and thus once pardoned that act could not be used as a reason to arrest said marine. As it turns out, as I have discovered in discussions on the discord about this incident, this is not the only, or even necessarily correct interpretation; instead it can be considered that every moment of wearing said tophat could be considered a violation of marine law, and the pardon only counted for the instances of tophat donning up until that point, and every instance thereafter was itself a new possibility to charge for FFP-as such, the pardon would do nothing to prevent MP's from continuing to arrest the marine for their headgear antics until the offending equipment was removed.

This is where the finiteness of my attention and a lapse in judgement lead to my downfall. I did not consider the possibility of adding top hats to the list of approved headgear in our SOP, or thought of modifying SOP as an option at all, my attention was necessarily devoted to the crucial beginning moments of the operation. As such, when the CMP reported to me that the MP was refusing to follow orders, I told him to deal with it. The proper course of action here to prevent further top hat related criminal activity would have been to modify the SOP and make an announcement, and I will be sure to do as such for any future hat-crime.

[BeardedWall]

Synth here, I just wanted to pass out some hats and thought it would be a fun way to start a round. I even pinged admin if they had an issue with it and they said no.

I understand why Rals would originally arrest marines for FFP (although I even disagree with this see below).

He is putting command staff and a whitelisters in a box, by using MP Law against them on the threat of whitelist removal (which is what a report is) so that he can..... arrest people for hats? There are multiple points where he could have stopped and been reasonable, instead he went out of his way to nearly cause a riot/mutiny over hats, continued to do so after the captain attempted to prevent the mutiny, and then when he was unsurprisingly told to stop has issue with it? This just seems silly. He likes to plead that there he is "bound by MP Law" but by MP Law The Minimum Punishment should be used in most cases unless it is a duplicate crime or several crimes have been committed and only one can be chosen. As the first hat charge was pardoned, instead of an arrest he could have (and seems to be directed to by the law) give the minimum punishment which is a warning. He choose not only to do this on the same marine that was pardoned, but choose to not use the minimum. Everyone had lots of choices. But it seems to me that he went out of his way to re-arrest the same marine after he was pardoned; anticipating that it would cause further issues and then filing a report on it.


Finally, I have argued with him in the past over this when he was considering charging me with Aiding and Abedding FFP by passing out shoes. If he is going to interpret the law in such a way that he considers it FFP I counter with the following:

SOP for equipment is as follows "Standard issue equipment is defined as any military uniform, armor, weapon or accessory personnel may find in their crew locker, as well as those they emerge from cryosleep with and any equipment normally available for issue by the Requisitions Department."

As the synthetic unit of the ship I not only have access to all departments but access to all machinery, equipment, and channels of those departments in order to fill in where I may be needed. This makes me a defacto member of every department on the ship. Therefore, as I am a member of Requisitions, all vanity items (including top hats) I have access to and pass out, by virtue of me being a member of requisitions and passing them out, should be considered Standard Issue Equipment.

Is the above an interpretation of the law that he disagrees with? Yes, but that is the whole game we are playing here.

And to be clear, I like Rals, I have been arrested by him many many times. I just do not agree with him in this instance.

[Rals]

I would like to say, that I did not request any whitelist removal in all three my reports, that were against whitelisted players. I would be content even if said players will receive verbal warning without addition to their note/CO history.

[Taketheshot56]

Logs of these will be posted within the next few hours.

[Taketheshot56]

First set of logs
Marine arrested for wearing a tophat, CMP attempts to pardon the marine, then CO pardons him.
CO Proactively pardons all future tophat arrests.

Second set.
After being pardoned and released the marine once again broke the law and wore the tophat. CO References prior proactive pardons.

Third set.
Marine released and CMP arrests and fires MP saying they were pardoned by CO earlier and the MP commited double jeopardy

Could not find any reference of any change to SOP by the CO.

[Rals]

To clarify: these three logs are not relevant to my termination or top-hat situation:

[11:49:33]SAY: Isaac Lewis/AbedRaven : They have permission I'm told
[11:49:38]SAY: Trianna Jesowitz/AdmiralGreene : I gave them express permission.
[11:49:44]SAY: Trianna Jesowitz/AdmiralGreene : They asked first so I granted it.

It is response to statement of MP, who said, that MTs are building rage cage. Full conversation:

SSGT Alexy 'Face' Kuzneatov [MP (MP)] says, "Oh for f- Boss! The MT's Building an arena again"
LCDR Isaac Lewis [MP (CMP)] says, "They have permission I'm told"
CPT Trianna Jesowitz [MP (CO)] says, "I gave them express permission."
CPT Trianna Jesowitz [MP (CO)] says, "They asked first so I granted it."

[ThesoldierLLJK]

I will be reviewing the CMP side of things, the Council will review the CO side of things
I give AbedRaven 48 hours to make his case or else a decision will be made.

[Bancrose]

The Council and I will give our response to the CO shit at some point.