Player Report
Your Byond ID? Vispain
Date of Incident October 27, 2019
Your Character Name? Cassius 'Santa' Klaus
Accused Byond Key(if known): Unknown
Accused Character Name Godwin 'Elite' Agg
Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results) 3:30am (East Coast Time)
What rule(s) were broken: Rule 14
Description of the incident: Foreword:
I apologize for any potential long-windedness of this in advance. I'll be mainly talking about what happened and some reflection on the rules in this.
The rule I believe broken was Rule 14. This is something I believe 100% and believe is provable.
Personally, I also believe there's a high chance of Agg breaking Rules 3 and 4, but this is dependent upon if Agg truly had an accident or made a purposeful decision as will be elaborated on later. Since it is unable to be proven either way definitively I'm leaving those potential Rules out of the "What Rules were Broken" section. Still, I feel this is necessary to mention as I will occasionally bring it up to help further elaborate and bring light on what happened and how this ties into the rules.
Background Context:
Ok. So, I had recently logged into the round at around 40minutes in and received orders to arrest a Haythem Castian(?) for Contraband. The fellow was a doctor in the medbay with several other doctors and a researcher working when he had a Shotgun and yelled something along the effect of "YOU'LL HAVE TO PRY MY GUN FROM MY DEAD HANDS" or something and ran off. I chased - lost him - and found him again in the medbay without the Shotgun and promptly tased and arrested him as he was Resisting Arrest for having Contraband (The Shotgun).
Considering he had resisted arrest, needed processing, but *had* shown back up at the brig to do his job I elected to do a search in the Gym (just north of medbay) to be quick with what really should've only been a formality. When I searched his webbing I found 3 Nades and Buckshot Shells. I reported this to the CMP and didn't receive an immediate response - possibly due to radio clutter -. I was eventually told to move the civilian to the Brig.
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Situation History:
When we exited the Gym there was a small crowd of marines. Among them Godwin 'Elite' Agg. Halfway to Brig from Gym, I noticed something particular that worried me. I knew marines might grab my Prisoner, "Haythem", but what was most concerning was the small possibility of marines who might take this as an opportunity to break Rule 14 "Lethal Force".
The Next Sequence of Events is almost exactly in order:
As we are walking to the brig with the prisoner - and these next few seconds occur in a very fast time span - Agg walks up.
I notice two things immediately.
1. He's got a Flamer.
2. It's One-Hand Wielded
I keep desperately walking with the prisoner. I have a bad feeling that he's going to flame me.
(See IMG 1)
Still, the inevitable happens and I knew it.
He grabs the prisoner. I grab the prisoner back.
(See IMG 2)
A brief, small interlude as I continue walking with the Prisoner.
He grabs the prisoner back, again. I pull my taser and fire once - hitting Haythem Castian.
Castian comments, "This is my life now, I guess."
I step forward to grab Haythem.
I fire the taser once more - miss - just as Agg fires his flamer at me. He flames Haythem and me, which kills me, and then he books it due to the amount of MPs and marines and just general chaos going on in the aftermath of what he caused.
I should add - the situation until Agg had been *somewhat calm*. Yes there were dissidents and people likely to try to sieze the doctor, but for the most part everyone was calm. Until Agg flamed me. Even the civilian doctor who I had been taking to the brig as ordered was still amiable enough to heal and help me and other injured personnel. I later found out he AHELPED and claimed in LOOC it was an "accident", but as far as Rule 14 goes that�s inconsequential.
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Excusing any outside excuses made on Agg's or my party for our actions...
I believe it's a cut-clear case that Agg was in the wrong and escalated improperly thus breaking Rule 14 "Lethal Force". Even if it was an accident Agg still broke Rule 14. That much is certain.
"Accidentally" not following ML as a MP or "Accidentally Suiciding" doesn't mean you are exempt from a rule. What saying "Oh sorry bro it was an accident" and AHELPING or some equivalent does in this case is potentially get you out of a possible Rulebreak of Rules 3 and/or 4. For example, if it was an accident, then I'm pretty sure he didn't break Rules 3 or 4 which are rather reliant upon intent. Rule 14 however makes no distinction on if the Lethal Force was an accident or not. Just that it occured and it�s clear that it did.
Even in my notes. One of them gives a precedent for these "Accidents":
"Banned from Squad Specialist - Committed suicide as a sniper at Round start.
by on Sun, April 29th of 2018"
"The suicide was unintentional, but I recommend letting it sit for a bit so they can learn from thier mistakes.
by on Sun, April 29th of 2018"
I did the exact same thing Agg did in my note. I broke a rule, by accident in my case, and immediately Ahelped. Did that make me exempt from the rule? No, it did not. Should Ahelping immediately make Agg exempt from the rule? No, it should not. Also, if we are going to guage severity on what Agg did rulebreakwise to my own example of a "Accidental rulebreak" that still got punished, then it's clear Agg's is even more grave. What he did caused several marines to be injured and even people declaring a mutiny without Admin permission. Mine, for example, only lead to my own death, the loss of a Specialist, and a small bit of laughter and shock.
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Agg's Apparent Justification:
I tried finding out what - if any - justification Agg had for his actions and this is what he told me in discord.
(See IMG 3) (Below is Text from that)
"I was saying shit and had my shit up the entire time"
This is in clearly in reference to the Flamer he had and how he had been yelling insults and such.
"Like I didn't walk up and fucking RDM you"
Combined in the sentence structure context of the previous statement, this is in clear a reference to how he believes that because he yelled earlier and had his flamer one-handed he is granted carte blanche in the rules to kill me within what HE believes to be proper escalation.
So, if I yell a lot at someone and have my gun wielded for a little while I can just shoot them after a bit of this? Is this true? I would love some clarification on that. It would make killing people over the most trivial things so easy. Last I checked, escalation generally follows a rule of thumb of mainly: "Fists first then Knives then Guns". Not "Yelling first then Guns."
If we follow the traditional rules of Escalation and not the butchered, clearly rulebreaking ones Agg claims are correct then it a cut and done case that Agg didn�t follow escalation (and thus broke Rule 14). Agg yelled a little, wielded his gun, grabbed the civvie a couple times from a MP and killed the MP when they resisted with non-lethal force.
Agg, himself, virtually admits it that he didn�t follow proper escalation.
(See Image 4) (Below is Text from That)
�The only hostile move I made was grabbing the survivor�.
Last I checked a Grab doesn�t equal a punch or knife stab or even really a hostile act within escalation. If anything, it�s so far down on the �totem pole� of escalation that we might as well say it�s before even punching and pushing. I fail to see Agg�s logic that makes going from grabbing to killing someone proper escalation. (I expect it'll involve "Single doctor being taken away" justification. Issue with that is there were multiple civilian doctors working as well as a Researcher).
I would love clarification though if that's allowed.
Can I, too, grab prisoners and insult MPs and wield my gun and then kill them if they resist?
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To Conclude:
I expect Agg will try to argue his points where he gets it both ways:
That he is innocent of breaking Rule 14 and other rules because it both an accident and legitimate.
Whatever the case is (accident or not), I think it�s clear that Agg broke Rule 14. Rule 14 seems to be less about �Intent� and more about what you do and no matter what way you look at it, Agg clearly broke Rule 14. It doesn�t matter if it was an accident. Only if you did.
The question that comes down to �My word vs Theirs� is only relevant when we talk about if Agg broke Rules 3 and/or 4. I highly doubt anyone is going to be able to definitively say with no bias if it was an accident or not. For that reason, I doubt anything will come of his potentially breaking Rule 3 and 4 and am not including it in the official �What rules were broken part� of this report simply due to their indeterminable nature. Frankly, there is no way to know for sure and honestly I wouldn�t expect anything to come out of any allegations about him breaking those rules because of the nature of it being a �My Word vs Theirs� situation.
Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
How you would punish the accused: If I could punish the accused, I'd likely give a short ban typical of the period of time that people normally get for escalation.
Alternatively, If I had reason to believe it was a true accident (personally I can't even say and I was the one involved) I'd give a warning typical of the period of time that people normally get for breaking escalation rules.
Additionally, I'd add a comment stating that it was possibly accidental.
Past experience has taught me that even true "Accidents" do not excuse you from the rules nor should they. Actions have consequences. Even so-called accidental ones. This case is no exception.
