Staff Report - Dorkkeli

[Trevorious]

Staff Report

Your BYOND Key

Trevoriousdafox

Your Character Name?

Ellie 'Coffee' Weaver

Their BYOND Key

Dorkkeli

Approximate time and date of the incident

8:00 am 8:50ish am

Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken

Preserve the RP and enjoyment of the server
- We're a server focused on the enjoyment of the players. As long as the players are having a blast and not every single rule is being broken, it's okay to let some things slide here and there.


3. Determine the seriousness of the issue
a. This is very important because the seriousness should match the punishment. For example: using light netspeak (emoji's and such) is not a bannable offense for first time offenders; however, killing a marine for an insufficient reasons is.


4. Investigate the player's history
a. Check the player's notes. If they frequently break the same rule, then the punishment may need to be more serious. If they haven't had a new note or violation for a few months, it would probably be best to give them a more minor punishment.


5. Determine the punishment.
a. Determine the bare minimum punishment. There's no reason to jump straight to a ban, especially if the incident didn't cause a major disruption to the game. Try to use warnings, and if you do need to ban don't be excessive. Most bans should not be above 12 hours.

Description of the incident

*Most of this is just prior info but I will start from the beginning to let you understand things from my perspective.
I decided to go survivor for the first time in while. Actually managed to roll it and rushed to security.


At this point two other survivors met up with me and we get supplied then split off.
They ran to to engineering and I ran into the storage domes to get metal. I got what I wanted then went to meet them.
They got welders thankfully and I grabbed a fueltank. After which we ran to the Secure dome and started to breach in.


A predator happened to notice and started to mess with us. Provoking one of us into shooting at him or hitting him not sure which.
At this point I'm building cades and the other survivor is cutting the wall. The pred kills the first guy and starts to provoke us again.
We got the first wall down and David, the other survivor had too much eye damage to keep tearing into the wall. So we swapped and I shot the wall down.


While I did this David started to shoot at the pred too and ran off to fight. I finally got in as david died and started to build up cades and gear up ECT.
After I felt semi secure I had some mild RP with the pred, till xenos came and then I held for while. I had a station bounce radio so I was talking to check and see if anyone would reply.
Finally the xenos ran and marines came to the rescue. I never told them I wanted to evac persay and hadn't had plans too.


I actually wanted to RP with the pred more and scavange suppies for my survivor fort. But while I was don't so a runner saw me and was harassing.
It got a good slash on me and broke my groin, forcing me to go to the lz to see a medic. Thankfully I was near and Zeke helped me out.




~~~~~~~~~~This is where I guess you'd say this all started.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


While the medic was finishing up helping me the DS landed. I promptly ran behind cover by a floodlight and hid. while I did this a alpha PFC named Adam Ruger (or something like that) rans out to the turret fire all excited like.
Then he Beelines straight for me behind this floodlight and pushes/bodyblocks me out into the turret fire. I at first though he might think I was a CLF or something or that he might be a new player.


But after I died he punched me, called me retarded, then dragged me towards center nexus. Away from the medic trying to defib me even after the DS turrets were retracted.
I understand since I was dead I ICly didn't know he did any of this but it confused me pretty badly OOcly. So I did send a looc message I shouldn't have, out of frustration after I got revived.
I confronted him for his actions. And all he had to say to me was I was a retard or something similar. Since I felt ICly he had full intent to cause me harm/death with his actions I fired upon him and wounded him.
I did not and was not going to kill him only wound in self defense since I felt him a threat to my safety.
Anyways after I fired on he he gunned me down with a shotgun, which was fine.
But then while the medic was trying to defib me he kept shooting me and stabbing me and dragging me to make me unrevivable. By the end I had over 500 brute damage.


This is when I ahelped because preventing a defib is griefing. Dorkkeli replies and we talk for a bit, he says he's looking into it then says he has to relog.
He does and then asks for a description of the incident, I give him a brief one in much less detail than this one. I go about my round ghosting.
He replies saying it was improper escalation on my part when that wasn't even what was ahelped at all. He then tells me he's gonna apply a 3 hour ban.
We talk about about the ban then he changes his mind and says he's gonna apply a three day ban for previous notes, but all my prior notes are months old and have long periods of time between them.
I don't think it's very fair of him to change the punishment after it was already decided to be a three hour ban.


I thought survivors could go hostile so long as they had a good reason and did not act friendly then go up to antag.

This is a quote from the wiki, Reminder: You are permitted to act hostile to both other survivors and marines.
Survivors: Survivors have more leeway than marines with their mental stability due to the trauma they may have experienced during the xenomorph attack.
They may be suffering PTSD, paranoia or similar conditions. Survivors may be hostile but must be overtly so and from the beginning.
Turncoating is not allowed, if you go up to the Almayer willingly or act friendly, you waive your right to be hostile.

I never turncoated either because I never told marines I was going to help them or that I wanted them to evac me.
I did get a medic to help me but I mean ICCly you'd have to be an idiot or crazy to shoot at a bunch of marines for no reason.
To me Iccly they were there to save my home and I was just doing my own thing as a survivor rebuilding.

Also Rule 14. Lethal Force - Do not attack another player without a legitimate, explainable roleplay reason that could be applied in a similar, real-life scenario. A fist fight does not suddenly escalate into a gun fight. Even if you are justified, you are still susceptible to Marine Law.


I think if you had all this happen to you IRL. After you watched all you friends get killed and colony wiped out by aliens. Killed a few of them yourself and desperately struggled to survive ALONE.
Only to get pushed into a turret and by some jerk while already wounded and have it kill you. Then when you asked him why he killed you, he calls you retarded.
And having seen these marines just loot the place and even kill you without a care or remorse. I think you might have some justification if you shoot the man who killed you. Considering all the trama you've been through.


This is my first improper escalation violation since I've been back and I've been FF'd and plenty else as many other roles and not done anything back. I know better by now than to just gun down a man for a accident.
I understand logs cannot show he pushed me into the open and got me killed. But that is what happened, his actions afterwards and response when I asked him why lead me to believe he did it all on purpose.
I think I was okay ICCly with my actions considering I never went up to the almayer or asked to be evac'd I only got medical aid and went hostile only AFTER I was killed by someone on purpose.
I also watched my entire colony die horribly and the people who come to "help" are stealing from and harming me and my home.


This also had very little impact on the round, or even on anyone but me since I was the only one who died. I was also the one who ahelped.
I do not understand why he went from a 3 hour ban to a three day ban when guideline 5 says most bans shouldn't be above 12 hours.
If the rules are different and I'm wrong then the wiki should be fixed or reworded more clearly to make sure people understand them properly.

Evidence

Logs

How you would punish the accused

I am not sure I really don't want them or anyone punished.
I only ahelped to begin with because I was made permadead Via 500 brute while being defib'd.
I'd really just like the ban lifted and the note removed or both revised properly.

[Dorkkeli]

Alright.. I do not have much else to say, than that I did not find anything that would seem malicious on the other persons part, and it seemed like an unfortunate accident. In the meanwhile, you proceeded to salt in LOOC and gun them down after being revived, and the logs speak for this.
You broke the escalation laws, and even if the DS incident was malicious, you would not have taken the matters into your own hands, you should have ahelped it. You should know better, as an older player.

As stated before, I believe my punishment was justified, in the light of your logs. You have not improved your actions after previous warnings, so I made the decision to escalate your ban to three days.

In addition: I did not break any of the staff protocol:
1. The fact you shot someone up and me punishing you for it, does not "break the enjoyment of the server"
2. I determined the seriousness by looking at your note history, and your reactions to the matter, and the evidence at hand. This was a serious case of improper escalation.
3. As stated, I did investigate your notes and deemed that this punishment I handed out was just, for you have failed to mend your ways.
4. And finally, you have had so many bare minimum punishments, that it was long overdue for you to receive more than a note or a three hour ban for your repeated rule breaks.

I do not have much else to say until a headstaff comments on the matter.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Logs:

[Trevorious]

In addition: I did not break any of the staff protocol:
1. The fact you shot someone up and me punishing you for it, does not "break the enjoyment of the server"
2. I determined the seriousness by looking at your note history, and your reactions to the matter, and the evidence at hand. This was a serious case of improper escalation.
3. As stated, I did investigate your notes and deemed that this punishment I handed out was just, for you have failed to mend your ways.
4. And finally, you have had so many bare minimum punishments, that it was long overdue for you to receive more than a note or a three hour ban for your repeated rule breaks.

*1.- Yes, but it didn't make the round more enjoyable for anyone either. Had I not ahelped, I'm willing to bet Adam and me would have been just fine with how it RP'd out.
I only ahelped because he made me unrevivable. if he and I didn't ahelp the issue I'm in trouble for. That being the escalation, or RP leading to. I don't see Why it was a issue at all to begin with.
It's not enjoyable for players to ahelp a situation. Then get a ban for a totally different issue that wasn't even the problem. Then have that get extended while talking about it.




*2.- I don't see how it was that serious? It didn't impact the round for either side in any way at all. It didn't impact any players in a serious or permanent way, well except myself who was made permadead.
Adam wasn't killed and just had to go up to medbay for a fracture. I was the one who was killed for attacking, which is fine I honestly was expecting it, even holstered my weapon and let him PB me.


My note history has related notes yes, but most are several months old. Also all are for different reasons than this and they are as a marine.

I can understand with you not being there to witness it, the only evidence you could gather was a few logs and testimonies but I do not think this punishment met the seriousness at all.
Considering it had little if any round impacting effect. I feel I am being made a example of, just because I play a lot am somewhat well known.



*3.- I understand I have similar notes but they are as a marine, also they where when I shot people for FFing me. I literally never do that anymore.

This was as a survivor, the man killed me, and from my point of view ICly he did so on purpose. My character had just witnessed everyone they knew and cared for die.
I was under sever stress IC and I think it's reasonable to think that getting murdered and insulted might suffice to go hostile.

Now he might have actually had good intent and was just new or not thinking properly. but I was perfectly safe as I was and he had ZERO reason to try and push me anywhere.
Considering nowhere but where I was, had cover or was safe. Also you say I have fail to mend my ways but if that was true I'd have gotten in trouble for this sooner.

I've only been marine mainly since I've been back and had plenty of times I could have repeated "my old ways" as you say. Not once doing so even when I was delimbed ECT by FF with no hostiles around.
I did not simply shoot this man because I was mad. I had a IC reason and even had some prior RP. The out come played out I was okay with my death and he seemed happy with killing me.
I only Ahelped, again, because he continued to shoot my corpse and stab me while the medic worked on me.



*4.- I do not understand what you mean by this, almost all my notes are very minor misbehaviors or similar. I also play much more than the average player.
My notes almost all have several weeks if not months between them when it comes to related issues. You say I have repeated rule breaks but I do not see what you mean I am not a bad player.

I do not play to grief and make the game unfun for players. I don't play to be a rule lawyer and try to get out of punishments. I do not play to try ruin the round or balance.
I literally play to have fun, RP and see old friends. I've been playing marine so much, the TDM part of the game is stale and I wanted to go survivor to try and get some fresh RP and round enjoyment.

I find it highly saddening I'm getting the book thrown at me for a very minor incident, that wasn't even the issue that was ahelped.



I can go into more detail and explain anything else if anyone would like. Thank you all for your time.

[Grimcad]

I don't think Dorkkeli handled this one poorly.

The rules for survivors explicitly states; Survivors may be hostile but must be overtly so and from the beginning. The key words are overtly and beginning. Its not hating them with a seething anger. Or planning on sabotaging the ship after you get on board. Its taking action. Firing on them. Attacking them in some way. At first contact. Not after you get to talk with them and chat with them for a few.

As for the protocols broken. I don't think enjoyment of the server really fits here. And everything else can be summed up together as it mostly ties in. When determining the seriousness of an issue a Player with no notes often receives a warnings on a first offence. But if the Player had broken the same rule more than once, it makes it more serious. They know it is a rule break and that they should not do it.

Now where a bit of a disconnect comes in is with the stated punishment times on our CoC. As far as I know, and I would be very, very surprised to find differently, what is stated for ban times has not been our policy for at least the twoish years that I have been a member of staff. Instead we follow a "ban chain" That looks like this. Warning > 3 hour ban > 24 hour ban > 3 day ban > 7 day ban > Perma ban. Allowing of course for both some leniency and some stricter times, depending on the circumstances. Now that this has been brought to my attention I will be working with the Heads on changing and rectifying this in our CoC.

While your notes are starting to loose their relevancy . I do believe they are fresh enough to still be relevant. And multiple notes for similar actions will always be important.

That said I do feel as if a 3 day ban on this is a bit excessive. While I see no problems escalating you down the "chain" as far as ban lengths go. I do not feel it was a severe enough incident to propel you forward past a 24 hour ban and to a 3 day ban. Any remaining ban time you had will be lifted as you have already served at least 24 hours of your ban. (I apologize for taking so long to resolve this.)

I will have a discussion with Dorkkeli about this issue.

If you (and this goes for everyone reading this) ever have an encounter where you feel it is appropriate to have a hostile reaction to another player. Or are in doubt about what you WANT to do and if it may be against the rules, Ahelp it. Opposed to what may be a Players experience may be we do not always issue a blanket "NO." When people ask us about this type of thing.

Resolved. Note will stay. Any remaining ban time will be lifted.