Staff Report - Mvp777

**Heretic87** · 11-19-2019, 05:33 PM

Staff Report

Your BYOND Key

TwoJoints

Date of Incident

November 19, 2019

Your Character Name?

Simon Bobrovski

Their BYOND Key

Mvp777

Approximate time and date of the incident

11:00AM ISh

Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken

Remain Professional, no matter what happens
- Constantly stay cool. Regardless of what a player says to you do not act unprofessional and get angry with them.

Description of the incident

While I've been playing a bit for a couple weeks now, I'm still very new to a lot of the concepts of CM, and BYOND in general.

Evidence

https://imgur.com/a/TPszpzO

How you would punish the accused

Apology would be nice.

**Heretic87** · 11-19-2019, 05:36 PM

Description of the incident:
While I've been playing a bit for a couple weeks now, I'm still very new to a lot of the concepts of CM, and BYOND in general. A "friend" of my character's seemed to be in distress, was in a gunfight with an MP, and my character joined in to defend his friend (shot the MP). Not being a marine, I wasn't used to the marine uniforms on who's who (etc.). The Mod let me know of the rules, but started and ended the conversation in a very cold manner that really put me on the defense the entire time. I've been struggling with that "when are you allowed to attack", but in this case the player I was defending had broken the rules and cause dmy confusion. Why does speaking to a mod have to be such a sour experience? I'm honestly not trying to grief...

**Mvp777** · 11-19-2019, 05:51 PM

In my own defense its currently very late for me both at the time of the incident in question and of the time of writing (4 AM) so i was quite short on patience and have a very low tolerance for perceived shenanigans.
Incident in question was fairly simple, TwoJoints shot an MP alongside a PO because the MP tried to arrest the PO for a SoP violation. PO logged the moment he was slept and questioned, so i did jump straight to 'griefers being griefers' mind set and acted accordingly. Using my better judgement i did ask Grimreaperx15 to take over PMs at the time as i realised my own judgement was through the lens of sleep deprivation. I'd also like to note i did apologize to you for my behavior in a PM not long after Grimreaperx15s PMs before i knew of the existence of this report.

**Ventyas** · 11-19-2019, 06:08 PM

Attacks on the MP:

Spoiler:

[10:45:30]ATTACK: Victor Schwartz (CKEY) Used the flash to flash Parker Lucy (CKEY)
[10:45:57]ATTACK: Parker Lucy (CKEY) shot Victor Schwartz (zheak) with a heavy pistol bullet in the Hallway Port
[10:46:07]ATTACK: Simon Bobrovski (twojoints) shot Victor Schwartz (CKEY) with a heavy pistol bullet in the Hangar
[10:46:09]ATTACK: Simon Bobrovski (twojoints) shot Victor Schwartz (CKEY) with a heavy pistol bullet in the Hangar
[10:46:10]ATTACK: Simon Bobrovski (twojoints) shot Victor Schwartz (CKEY) with a heavy pistol bullet in the Hangar
[10:46:10]ATTACK: Parker Lucy (CKEY) shot Victor Schwartz (CKEY) with an armor-piercing pistol bullet in the Hangar
[10:46:11]ATTACK: Parker Lucy (CKEY) shot Victor Schwartz (CKEY) with an armor-piercing pistol bullet in the Hangar
[10:46:11]ATTACK: Parker Lucy (CKEY) shot Victor Schwartz (CKEY) with an armor-piercing pistol bullet in the Hangar
[10:46:11]ATTACK: Parker Lucy (CKEY) shot Victor Schwartz (CKEY) with an armor-piercing pistol bullet in the Hangar
[10:46:11]ATTACK: Parker Lucy (CKEY) shot Victor Schwartz (CKEY) with an armor-piercing pistol bullet in the Hangar

Ahelp:

Spoiler:

[10:46:22]ADMIN: HELP: CKEY/(Victor Schwartz): Just got shot to death by a Chaplain and PO.
[10:46:24]ADMIN: mvp777 has used 'Mark' on the Adminhelp from CKEY/(Victor Schwartz).

MVP sleeps both attackers:

Spoiler:

[10:46:28]ADMIN: mvp777/(Parker Lucy) used Toggle Sleeping on TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski).
[10:46:45]ADMIN: mvp777/(Parker Lucy) used Toggle Sleeping on CKEY/(Parker Lucy).

Admin PMs with Parker Lucy (PO):

Spoiler:

[10:47:06]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->CKEY/(Parker Lucy): Heres the part i ask you what the hell you are doing. Why did you kill that MP?
[10:48:03]ADMIN: PM: CKEY/(Parker Lucy)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): he kept harrsing me about my gun and being a complete dick about it, just landed from lz

Admin PMs with Victor Schwartz (MP)

Spoiler:

[10:49:00]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->CKEY/(Victor Schwartz): Were you by chance hounding the MP to follow SoP regarding holstering your weapon?
[10:49:13]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->CKEY/(Victor Schwartz): PO, rather. Not MP.
[10:50:20]ADMIN: PM: CKEY/(Victor Schwartz)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Yes, I was telling them they cannot be running around with an M41A on Green. I flashed them and put it on their suit, I was going to detain them for hooliganism , but then they started running off and firing at me. The Chaplain allegedly stole a gun from Req who then came up from behind me and started firing into me.
[10:53:29]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->CKEY/(Victor Schwartz): Did you have any interaction with the survivor Simon Bobrovski?
[10:54:08]ADMIN: PM: CKEY/(Victor Schwartz)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): I was the one who issued his ID, I asked them to follow me before they started running off and tried to lose me around the Alamo. Afterwards, I gave him his ID and he went back down the Alamo
[10:54:42]ADMIN: PM: CKEY/(Victor Schwartz)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): After I flashed, cuffed and checked him for illegal items, of course.

Admin PMs with TwoJoints (Chaplain):

Spoiler:

[10:47:10]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): Heres the part i ask you what the hell you are doing. Why did you kill that MP?
[10:47:31]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): To help my pilot friend, who was attacking the MP. Also, the MP abused me a bit earlier, so it fit.
[10:48:03]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Wasn't me that started the fight, it was the Pilot.
[10:48:07]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): I'll get to you after the MP. And what do you mean by Pilot Friend?
[10:48:25]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): The pilot who attacked the MP I killed. Spent a few trips with them in the cockpit, talked, made friends.
[10:48:37]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Again - I responded to the shots, didn't start.
[10:51:44]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): So from what i'm understanding you helped murder a man who was attempting to do his job.
[10:52:15]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Well I saw my friend in need and helped out. If the MP didn't abuse me earlier I might have stayed out of it!
[10:52:26]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): And honestly you have a prior note for gross overuse of force.
[10:53:00]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): Don't log out, i'll get back to you in a minute.
[10:53:04]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Well - I also tried to remove survivor from my pref but this is the 3rd time it keeps happening...
[10:53:39]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Don't want to be banned, but I haven't broken the same rule twice. Last time I didn't know the escalation rules, this time shooting was ALREADY happening. I'm not meaning to be a pain, just playing the character I have.
[10:54:01]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): I can jobban you from survivor, it won't be a punitive jobban and i'll specify in your notes that it was requested and can be removed at any time.
[10:54:39]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): The admin who helped me at the start of the round said to do it in my char prefs rather than in the special pref menu while in the game. I think I should just try it that way so that later when I'm more experience I can just toggle it.
[10:56:20]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): I won't be banning you. But another incident like this will get you banned, and i will be adding a note to your history.
[10:56:59]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Well that's what's happening now - if it plays out in game why am I in trouble out of game? And I wasn't helping my friend because he was arrested, Iw as helping him because he pulled a gun and wa fighting for his life as my char saw.
[10:57:20]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): I get that you guys are trying to mitigate griefing and stuff, but I'm just trying to play the game and my character, I'm not trying to be a troll.
[10:58:35]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): How long is the job ban?
[10:58:57]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): Fighting for his life? an MP was attempting to taze him for the POs failure to follow marine law, a minor marine law breach at that. You helped gun him down in response.
[10:59:18]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): Also, i'm not jobbanning you. I offered a non-punitive jobban if for whatever reason your game was bugged and kept giving you survivor.
[10:59:31]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Hang on - All I hear dwas shooting. All I saw was him running and shooting when I got there. That's not hard to believe, is it?
[10:59:41]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): Yes, yes it is.
[10:59:56]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Why? If you have logs you should be able to see - they werent even on my screen when the shooting started.
[11:00:30]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): All staff get logs when friendly fire occurs, someone shooting an MP for the MP trying to arrest them lawfully shows up on our logs.
[11:01:02]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): That seems impossible - because that's not why I shot him... How could you know my intentions in a log?
[11:01:39]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): I'm sorry for frustrating you. I wasn't the main aggressor here, I just reacted like a newb.
[11:03:02]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): I understand your RP intent here. Its just jumping STRAIGHT to lethal force immediately is not a good precedent to follow.
[11:03:10]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): AGAIN
[11:03:14]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): WITH RESPECT
[11:03:20]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): THE SHOOTING WAS ALREADY HAPPENING
[11:03:51]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): If shooting starts, I should start swining my fists eh? Is that really what the rule is?
[11:04:33]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): This is Colonial Marines, the main enemy are xenomorphs. Lethal fighting between humans is intentionally minimized as much as possible because the main enemy are XENOMORPHS. If people jumped to their rifle the moment someone pushed someone else the marines would slaughter eachother in a moments notice.
[11:05:23]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Yes - that's well understood. In this case, nobody pushed, JUST SHOOTING.
[11:05:26]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): An MP trying to taze a resisting offender for their violations of marine law is not worthy of jumping to gunning the damned MP down who's getting shot.
[11:06:19]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Okay, you only know that because you interviewed people afterwards. When I got there, it looked like a firefight. And people were running and getting shot. That's not an accidental discharge, that's not a push or a shove.
[11:06:40]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): My character broke the law, but the person who broke the rules is the PO
[11:07:54]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): You've been here weeks already, and you still can't tell the when and when nots of gunning someone down?
[11:08:30]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): How long have you been a mod?
[11:09:16]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): I would choose your next words very carefully.
[11:09:21]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Also - you started this whole conversation angry and cursing at me. That's seriously a bad way to moderate.
[11:09:38]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): You attacked me for being here for weeks - I only asked how long you were a mod?
[11:10:33]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): I didn't and never intended to attack you, in fact that wasn't my intention in saying that. My intent was pointing out that you should know better on when to jump to lethality and when not to.
[11:12:29]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): You did - and that's what set the tone for this whole conversation. Being here for weeks doesn't mean I'm a master of this game or its rules' nuances.
[11:12:34]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): To prevent this from unnecessarily wasting more of our time i'll summarize.
[11:12:56]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): I feel like we're almost to the end, don't end it yet.
[11:13:18]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): Oh, no. Our conversation is very much at its end, you can speak to another staff.
[11:13:32]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): You should re-summarize to "You see your friend fighting MP, you shot MP as well."
[11:13:44]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Fine, if that's how you want to do it.
[11:14:09]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Mvp777/(Parker Lucy): Have a CM day.

Grimreaper conversation with Twojoints:

Spoiler:

[11:14:11]ADMIN: PM: Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): Hey, if you'll give me a few minutes to finish up a previous conversation, I'll speak with you about the situation.
[11:17:05]ADMIN: PM: Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): Okay, so, I'll try to get to the point. Mvp did start off with a bit of a poor attitude, but that doesn't mean you need to return it. I've been keeping aon eye on the situation, and I understand where you're coming from, but much like if you started shooting IRL because you saw your friend shooting, you're still responsible for your actions, evevn if it was due to confusion. Does that make sense?
[11:18:34]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth): Hello! So I don't know what sort of cursing or anger I gave back to him. Other than when he kept repeating that I shot first (when I didn't). His initial message definitely set the tone for the whole thing and put me on my heels/defensive. Especially because this conversation has come up with me in the past about aggression. And then it seemed like he wasn't listening...
[11:19:07]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth): But my other concern - is if you're giving that analogy, then wouldn't what happened to me be the right thing that happens? Why is there an admin coming in and shaking a finger if my character was executed for murder?
[11:20:05]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth): It seems like the PO should be in trouble for causing the incident by breaking the rules. I was just reacting. How am I in trouble when I technically followed the rules?
[11:20:41]ADMIN: PM: Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): What may have happened is your shot was the first to successfully land, we don't log missed shots because otherwise we'd have 50x the log size. The PO was handled as well, we just don't discuss punishments that were applied to other people, but I can assure you that the PO got in trouble.
[11:21:32]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth): I'm not saying the PO should be punished, I'm saying it's hard to tell if I'm breaking a rule or not when I'm reacting to someone who IS breaking a rule. so WHY am I in trouble??
[11:23:13]ADMIN: PM: Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): Because you got involved in the rulebreak by helping out the PO, who was breaking the rules, that's why you're not in more trouble. The PO broke the rules, but you did too when you got involved without knowing what was actually going on. There is VERY little reason in CM to ever be attacking another human, with the rare exception that a hostile human faction shows up.
[11:23:34]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth): Okay, I see
[11:25:06]ADMIN: PM: Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): So, basically, on our end, it looked like just typical griefing at the start, and as you know, the logs can't tell us anything about intent, we can only use them to see what happened, not WHY, hence the investigation. I've taken a look at your notes, and while you seem to have a good intent to roleplay, it jumps to violence a lot faster than it probably should. You gotta remember that other people are playing these characters too.
[11:27:25]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth): That's only because this is my first RP game, and first time on BYOND. I love the RP aspect of it, it just wasn't explained like how you just did. Almost never a reason for human v human makes sense and I can run with that!
[11:28:34]ADMIN: PM: Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): Alright, and here is a helpful tip, if you're ever unsure, feel free to ahelp. It's almost always better to ahelp, and someone will let you know. In this case, it would have been best to write a message like 'Hey I see this dude shooting at an MP, can I help him out?' and we would have let you know it wasn't okay, or anything like that in the future.
[11:29:47]ADMIN: PM: TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski)->Grimreaperx15/(Ysabel Buttersworth): I'll definitely do that!

MVP apologies:

Spoiler:

[11:41:03]ADMIN: PM: Mvp777/(Parker Lucy)->TwoJoints/(Simon Bobrovski): I apologize if i came off as aggressive in PMs. CM has a lot of people going through it and us staff are often on for quite a long while. A not so insignificant amount of people join the game, pick up and a gun and re-enact rambo on everyone around them.

TwoJoints notes:

Spoiler:

As survivor got rescued by marines, ended up befriending a PO who had prior run ins with MPs over weapon holstering SoP. Said MP later attempted to arrest the PO for another SoP violation. Said PO ended up pulling a gun and shooting the MP with the survivor running after them, seeing the PO shoot the MP then pulled a pistol and helped gun the MP down. Upon PMing them about his actions they were both combative, argued the point and confrontational about every little word i said in PMs. Warned for improper escalation and violationing the lethal force rule. Ban on next related offense. | Tue, November 19th of 2019

Was spoken to by Grimreaperx15 not longer after the note above and managed to hammer home the whens and when nots of lethal force against other humans during a regular CM round. | Tue, November 19th of 2019

As a side note, both PO and Chaplain were executed afterwards.

**Dubszor** · 11-19-2019, 07:49 PM

Right.

This isn't the attitude Staff should show players when PMing them. MVP did apologize, however, so I believe they understand what they did was wrong.

Regardless, I will talk to them as well.

This report is now Resolved.

User Tag List

Thread: Staff Report - Mvp777

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Staff Report - Mvp777

Posting Permissions