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Thread: Taketheshot56 - Rules: 3, 4, 14, 17.

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    Taketheshot56 - Rules: 3, 4, 14, 17.

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    CallMeArty

    Date of Incident
    November 28, 2019

    Your Character Name?
    Gilbert Alice

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Taketheshot56

    Accused Character Name
    Patton 'Hardtack' Moore

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    5:50pm central time.

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rules: 3, 4, 14, 17.

    Description of the incident:
    Delta did a mutiny. I'm not quite sure why, but they did. I learned this - as their Staff Officer - when I saw a group of them outside CIC who quickly got me to the floor and started slashing at me with knives, where I opened fire with my M4A3, and I believe Patton more shot me point-blank with a shotgun. Fair.

    After a mutiny was announced, a way into CIC was shot open, the Riot Military Police arrived, and most mutineers were either dead or arrested, Patton just. . . kept on killing. I assumed it was just the Riot Police, but they ran right up to me outside of medical and fired buckshot at me. The only reason I survived is because I grabbed heavy armor after the last time I almost died. No "hey Lieutenant, you're on the menu too!", no warning shot, just pellets. It's the same logic behind the removal of hostile survivors, all I had to go off was a blue helmet, no identifying "I am a hostile mutineer" marks or indications unless I was expected to just open fire on Deltas wholesale.

    This was so long after the Mutiny started, that I thought it had ended by then, and had to ask staff if it was still ongoing. Afterwards, they bragged about how many of the Riot Police they had killed in the same way you'd expect a badblood Predator or Xeno to. This obviously felt completely different from say, mutineering against command for giving you suicidal orders and then opening fire after they said all mutineers would be perma'd. For further evidence, just look at the provided Discord screenshots.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    How you would punish the accused:
    Short-term ban, or a heavy note considering how close it was to their recent whitelist violation (//showthrea...ghlight=Patton), this just seems like an excuse to go crazy.
    Last edited by forest2001; 11-30-2019 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Added CKey

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    I approved the mutiny. It was due to the injustices to which Patton and his crew believed they had incurred at the hands of the MP's and the CO.

    If I remember correctly, a bunch of Delta Marines had been brigged earlier in the round, and there a bunch of reports of the MP's and the CO being incompetent with the detainees.
    Last edited by RobBrown4PM; 11-30-2019 at 04:55 AM.

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    To add further to my statement; there was some incredibly bad play from the RMP that resulted in them releasing the mutineers, for whatever reason during the mutiny. Thus it never really got put down in my opinion, to which is why you were told what you were told.

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    Admin Taketheshot56's Avatar
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    The mutiny was approved, you dropped one of my squadmates outside CIC during the inintial confrontation, command staff killed the others leaving me, antoni and claymore. I was never arrested by the RMPs to start in their incompetence they let us go, i got medical treatment and continued the mutiny against the RMPs who continued to fail utterly at trying to detain or kill us, we kept engaging and getting engaged by RMPs, antoni got killed and i Solo tried to storm the brig to free my fellow mutineers, i managed to do so but was then cuffed....and subsequently escaped from the bald RMP, uncuffed and continued the mutiny. Eventually i ran into you, you already had engaged my group earlier so i was taking zero chances, i shot you and kept going down the hallway. I was eventually caught after repelling even more bald RMPs who tried to solo arrest me.

    I never surrendered and was continuously able to escape arrest thus I was able to continue the mutiny.

    As per the screenshots i can confirm the RMPs were bald and that i massacred them with antoni in true delta fashion during the approved mutiny.

    I can also confirm i killed about 11 total, most of them trying to charge and put me down solo.

    I can also confirm that at heart i am a robust based delta PFC.

    At the end of the day this was all an approved mutiny and everything i did was within the rules, I never turncloaked i engaged MPs and command staff who i was hostile against at all turns and never surrendered.
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    I don't deny the mutiny, not the fact that I did kill a marine (after being shoved to the ground and slashed with a knife), nor the fact that Delta has homicidal tendencies and urges to kill those in roles of authority.

    My two major issues are the logic of Moore as a marine, and the HvH standards we should be aware of.

    Now, you are a robust based delta, you were able to flex on eleven riot police of varying levels of baldness, but. . . why? I would understand it against riot police all using lethal force, but there's a point where one player's opening fire means you've just got to shoot them down. Nobody in the USCM should be proud or completely willing to mow down waves of Riot Police, you're not UPP or CLF. I recently received a ban as a specialist for firing on the Dutch's Dozen just because I was liking the preds, I don't see much meaningful difference between "I shot you to death for firing into the group that started shoving you to the ground and stabbing you on sight" or "I shot the nearly a dozen riot police for executing violent mutineers also in my squad." Marines aren't allowed to gang up on MPs for arresting a squadmate, I imagine the same applies to executions.

    Secondly, why do different factions in HvH scenarios have distinct uniforms? Why aren't you allowed to wear their uniforms? To make sure it's actually the bad guy and not some spy. I have my bright and shiny bronze star, and you had. . . blue. You looked like every other Delta on the ship, or like all the Deltas I had been SOing for that op. What was my choice there before eating buckshot, should I have shift-clicked everybody I saw? Fired on all Deltas on the chance they were a mutineer trying to kill me? You have eight months on me, and I know that advantage.

    Overall, it doesn't sound like you killed all the Riot Police and attempted to kill me because - as a character - you would have, or because you - as a player - should have, it sounds like you just did it because you could. Predators could probably wipe both sides, but don't because how much fun would that be? Whose round was improved by killing a dozen people?

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    Admin Taketheshot56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call me Arty View Post
    I don't deny the mutiny, not the fact that I did kill a marine (after being shoved to the ground and slashed with a knife), nor the fact that Delta has homicidal tendencies and urges to kill those in roles of authority.

    My two major issues are the logic of Moore as a marine, and the HvH standards we should be aware of.

    Now, you are a robust based delta, you were able to flex on eleven riot police of varying levels of baldness, but. . . why? I would understand it against riot police all using lethal force, but there's a point where one player's opening fire means you've just got to shoot them down. Nobody in the USCM should be proud or completely willing to mow down waves of Riot Police, you're not UPP or CLF. I recently received a ban as a specialist for firing on the Dutch's Dozen just because I was liking the preds, I don't see much meaningful difference between "I shot you to death for firing into the group that started shoving you to the ground and stabbing you on sight" or "I shot the nearly a dozen riot police for executing violent mutineers also in my squad." Marines aren't allowed to gang up on MPs for arresting a squadmate, I imagine the same applies to executions.

    Secondly, why do different factions in HvH scenarios have distinct uniforms? Why aren't you allowed to wear their uniforms? To make sure it's actually the bad guy and not some spy. I have my bright and shiny bronze star, and you had. . . blue. You looked like every other Delta on the ship, or like all the Deltas I had been SOing for that op. What was my choice there before eating buckshot, should I have shift-clicked everybody I saw? Fired on all Deltas on the chance they were a mutineer trying to kill me? You have eight months on me, and I know that advantage.

    Overall, it doesn't sound like you killed all the Riot Police and attempted to kill me because - as a character - you would have, or because you - as a player - should have, it sounds like you just did it because you could. Predators could probably wipe both sides, but don't because how much fun would that be? Whose round was improved by killing a dozen people?
    I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding what happened that round.

    I woke up and got wrapped up in the mutiny hearing about the injustices command committed. Command then killed several of us. The Riot police are loyalist forces I was a mutineer, all conditions for using lethal force were met when we asked command to stand down and you shot one of our guys. Killing dutches dozen during an event to protect preds is COMPLETELY different than a mutiny, its griefing. No marines arent allowed to gang up on marines for arresting a squad mate, but.

    This was a mutiny.

    a mutiny where armed conflict was taking place between the loyalists and mutineers. And with HVH, this was not an HVH round, I wore my USCM uniform with a helmet. As for what you couldve done, im not sure i didnt have MP comms, no idea what the RMPs told you, but considering RMPs were engaging in gunfire in corridors with mutineers you probably couldve taken some extra caution or stayed in CIC.


    Again a mutiny is not a predator thing or HVH, comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taketheshot56 View Post
    a mutiny where armed conflict was taking place between the loyalists and mutineers. And with HVH, this was not an HVH round, I wore my USCM uniform with a helmet. As for what you couldve done, im not sure i didnt have MP comms, no idea what the RMPs told you, but considering RMPs were engaging in gunfire in corridors with mutineers you probably couldve taken some extra caution or stayed in CIC.
    Delta versus the Acting Commander (the only person you're allowed to mutiny against) or the Riot Military Police is a group of Humans versus a group of Humans. The rules in place for those are there so that one side doesn't have an uneven advantage against the other. Preds are there to add flavor to a round, same as mutinies. It's exciting, it's a time to roleplay or test your sk- oh, I 've been shot at outside of Medbay, which I left after dying so that I could get heavy armor, and was passing by once again for ladder access to CIC. That's my fault for not being in CIC, where I would have been had I not been jumped earlier.

    All I hear you saying is that mutinies should be less fair than HvH with it's clearly defined sides and distinct uniforms, less fair than Predators with their clear distinctions of who and how to engage, and less fair than hell, even old hostile survivors who were clear if they at the very least say "I'm crazy, and will shoot you."

    As a senior moderator, I'd expect you to know why so many restrictions and rules are put in place. Once again, how did this improve the round for other players? The people who got to play as Military Police - even though a few were real iffy (If I recall correctly, the final member of security was going cryo and didn't want the prisoners trapped) - already died, had a second chance at playing, and got sent right back to the spirit realm. I - who did their best to communicate with Delta and keep you all supplied and coordinated - got killed once, and almost killed again on my way back to the CIC. How about the Delta still on the ground killing xenomorphs, did they benefit from the mutiny in any way now that their Overwatch was gone?

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    So I was a RMP when it was called. I will say good few of the RMP wanted to just go full murderboning on the people mutiny. I warned the people in CIC to lay on the ground or they would be shot, but one of the main issue is I had no idea who was In the mutiny who was not since all we were told was it was deltards who started it. Next releasing the people it was cause of the demos coming on drop ship.(or why I released the guy I arrested) that's all the information I got sorry if grammar is bad on phone

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    I'll be real with ya.

    We we're like, 6 marines or such who walked up outside CiC. We have by then asked command to step down which they refuse by sending the shutters down. You an SO get told to get down you refuse to do so where you then get stabbed/punched/Disarmed a bit. You then pull a gun, and kill me.

    We were all Delta Marines. You were then a hostile to the Mutineers aka the 6 delta marines. And it has been ruled that once a mutiny goes through it does not end until everyone is brigged/dead on each side.

    The Mutiny lasted a long while and you were still considered a hostile.

    TLDR, You opened fire against a Mutineer as a Command Staff/SO and then got killed, and again at a later date when the Mutiny was still going.
    Head Developer & Marine Law Maintainer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanu308 View Post
    I'll be real with ya.

    We we're like, 6 marines or such who walked up outside CiC. We have by then asked command to step down which they refuse by sending the shutters down. You an SO get told to get down you refuse to do so where you then get stabbed/punched/Disarmed a bit. You then pull a gun, and kill me.

    We were all Delta Marines. You were then a hostile to the Mutineers aka the 6 delta marines. And it has been ruled that once a mutiny goes through it does not end until everyone is brigged/dead on each side.

    The Mutiny lasted a long while and you were still considered a hostile.

    TLDR, You opened fire against a Mutineer as a Command Staff/SO and then got killed, and again at a later date when the Mutiny was still going.
    I took the time to try and count the amount of times I was either disarmed, or attacked. I may have missed a few, but I counted about fifty, this is discounting radio chatter from command, general, Delta, engineering, req, and whoever else I had on, in addition to pain messages (You feel a pain in your chest) and everything else I was trying to do to get out of this sudden mugging. I don't think I could be blamed for missing a "Get down" in the midst of that. Plus, I felt safe from the fact that I had been overwatching your Squad the entire time, getting supplies organized, actively keeping your SL or aSL updated, refreshing your objectives, letting you know where important members were, and communicating the events of the round, y'know, like somebody you'd expect to be at the center of the revolt.

    There's a lot of wiggle-room when it comes to rules, like who's ruling on the Disgust Clause, what qualifies as "a valid roleplay reason", what deserves lethal force, and so on.
    You know what doesn't have wiggle-room?

    Only the Acting Commander can be mutinied against for their actions, decisions, or inactions. They must be given a chance to stand down peacefully.
    During the mutiny, attacking any uninvolved, medical, or surrendered personnel is strictly forbidden, as is perma-killing anyone involved. If you have surrendered during a mutiny, you must remain as such.


    So, was I the Acting Commander? This isn't a case of if I felt like one, it's a binary "yes, or no."
    Was I given a chance to stand down, a privilege you seemed to afford to the one you were actually mutineering against? It doesn't appear so, from the sudden onset of fifty disarms and slashes before any talks could be started.
    Would you describe disarming or stabbing as an attack? I sure wasn't the Command that Patton incited this thing with:

    Line 229: [16:37:34]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : Mps be abusive?
    Line 230: [16:38:02]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : The fuck
    Line 231: [16:38:07]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : Maybe its time for a regime change
    Line 403: [17:17:43]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : CO will step DOWN
    Line 404: [17:17:48]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : Or SHE WILL PERISH!
    I don't see "SO", I don't see "Gilbert Alice" anywhere in the inciting logs, and I sure as hell didn't get a warning. What about this warning to stand down that I got?

    Line 437: [17:24:21]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : Surrender
    Line 438: [17:24:23]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : NOW!
    Line 439: [17:24:28]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : Surrender!
    . . .
    [17:24:17]ATTACK: Nanu308/(Claymore Allister) disarmed Gilbert Alice (callmearty) at (123,152,3) (JMP)
    [17:24:17]SAY: Gilbert Alice/CallMeArty : What are you morons doing?
    [17:24:23]ATTACK: Nanu308/(Claymore Allister) disarmed Gilbert Alice (callmearty) at (116,153,3) (JMP)
    [17:24:24]ATTACK: Nanu308/(Claymore Allister) disarmed Gilbert Alice (callmearty) at (116,153,3) (JMP)
    [17:24:26]ATTACK: Nanu308/(Claymore Allister) disarmed Gilbert Alice (callmearty) at (116,153,3) (JMP)
    The one I got after the disarm spam? Perhaps I missed it, but Patton made a real good attempt to make sure I heard it by shouting after I was already getting dogpiled. They didn't even attempt to speak again until after they joined in on disarming, and then shot me to death, which is awfully familiar to the old hostile survivors who have since been banned getting away with killing because they did the same "Fuck off!" trick almost immediately before opening fire.

    Maybe I'm paying to close of an attention to the specific wording of the rules, but no more than Taketheshot was themselves.

    Line 693: [18:07:35]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : I also need medical treatment
    Line 694: [18:07:40]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : You are required by law
    Line 695: [18:07:43]SAY: Patton 'Hardtack' Moore/taketheshot56 : To provide it
    - which is a section of Marine Law. If they want to be protected under the rules of the game, even if they're specific ones and they're asking this of someone they've slayed close to a dozen comrades of, then I sure as hell deserve that same protection under the rules.



    You're not being "real" with me, Nanu; you're being dishonest. The logs are right there, you can read plain as day that all six of those marines in the mutiny disarmed me - including you. That demand I supposedly refused was drowned out, and came after I was engaged. I wasn't "stabbed/punched/disarmed a bit", it was over forty times. If I emptied an entire M41A magazine into someone, would you let me off because I only shot them "a bit"? I was already bleeding, and going into crit when I opened fire. Tell me that I deserve that, or that any of these things happened "in the best interest of the current round, the server, or the player base at large."

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