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Thread: Time Lock Feedback

  1. #11
    Senior Member Outcast Seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heraclitus View Post
    I'm going to go in the opposite direction form everyone else here and say that 3 hours as a marine should unlock all roles.

    In practice that means 2 rounds (or 1 ice round).

    RS queen should be 6 hours, or roughly 3 rounds (or, again, 1 ice round).
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Grentex's Avatar
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    My thoughts on some of the time locks:

    Queen requires more time to unlock as everyone else put it as it's prob not gonna be enough time before beno realizes it has a shitton of skills as queenie.

    CL timelock is a bit... odd? I barely see em do much to effect a round. And putting a timelock isn't going to stop that that much of what the main issue of CL is. Which is them not reading wiki/guides. Adding a timelock to them isn't going to change much.

    Also the timelock for the entire medical line is weird too. As multiple people have stated it would be best to have it be Researcher => Doctor => Squad Medic + CMO (with later timelock)

    The timelock for RO + CE seem at tad bit high, but that's moreso because CT's and MT's don't really do much beyond their initially roundstart duties so getting 6 hours on these ones will be pure living hells (mainly CT since why would you want to be the CE lol). Hence why you see most of them just bumming around.

    Aside from those most of these look fine.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outcast Seer View Post
    I recall once reading a guide that the recommended order of playing medical roles was Researcher => Doctor => Medic => CMO => Synth
    I disagree.

    Medic should be first as there are more of them and you need to have basic life saving knowledge to be a doctor.

    With 5+ medics you can afford for some to be bald.

    The more limited doctor slots makes them more valuable.

    Additionally, if I have a brand new doctor who has played medic, as a CMO worst case you can put them on triage.

    If they have never done medical at ALL you have someone actively hampering medical, dragging off iv lines, oding, etc.

    Its less frustrating to meet a bald medic. You are either dead and it sucks briefly and you bitch in dchat, or you walk away and find a good medic. A bald doctor.. you are trapped in surgery/autodoc for 10000 years.

    Finally, I have taught a few doctors/medics. Its far far easier and a better transition for doctors that were medics.

    Edit--

    It makes me wish they would bring back the "nurse"/intern role. Maybe just 1 slot with low surgical skill.
    Dress them in purple scrubs.. a role just for learning that marines will recognize is bald?

    Idk.
    Last edited by BeardedWall; 12-03-2019 at 06:59 PM.

  4. #14
    Member davidofmk771's Avatar
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    When it comes to anything combat-related as a marine, I say no. This includes SO, SL, and XO (however I am willing to accept that a short 3/6 hour time-lock as Spec/SO probably should precede the last two, respectively). Inexperience as a rookie NCO or officer is ICly acceptable as you can never be truly prepared if you only ran through the simulations, and imposing time-locks on these roles feels very newbie-unfriendly given that they are very abstract and flexible.

    Now, when it comes to anything shipside that matters, like doctors, CTs, MTs, MPs, and their heads? Definitely. These roles are vital to the function of the marines planetside and having a competent staff in these departments can damper the effect of any bad orders or leadership. However, this is another situation which blocks newbies out of roles they may be interested in from the start, so how do we deal with this?

    I have made a suggestion in the past for a 'Nurse' type role that newbies who enjoy non-combat medical gameplay can jump into without holding up marines who want quick, competent surgery from the only people who have the hardcoded-skill necessary. In the same vein it would be a good primer for those who want to learn the Combat Medic role without the pressure of dying/impatient marines.

    I think another kind of 'Sailor' role could be added as a sort of combined "assistants" for req and engineering, with all the necessary skills. Another role which does not demand groundside-assistance in the form of crates and OB reloads, but still allows players to explore the gameplay that is accessible with the perhaps-lowered door access and perhaps-lowered skills of standard MTs and CTs.

    Playing 3-6 hours as Nurse and Sailor would be a fine introduction to shipside gameplay in general and would unlock the respective roles they prepare players for (along with MP, which needs SOME sort of primer that I don't think requires addition of a special role, just understanding basic interaction with other players is the most important part of that job)

    When it comes to anything else human, I'd say no. CL can be as experienced or inexperienced as they will be, that's corporate nepotism for ya. Researchers are for funsies and have a supplemental effect on rounds if anything, and survivors are rural bumpkins from podunk colonies so who cares?

    Queen is something I cant say much about, almost everyone wants a timelock on it, even on the marine side, because the queen is quite literally the center of gameplay. A bad queen is not fun to follow or fight from my experience, so if any time-lock is added at all, i'd say that's the role to do it to.

  5. #15
    Whitelist Maintainer Bancrose's Avatar
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    I only see timelocks as a necessity on Command roles and Head of Department Jobs.

    And basically just Queen.

    I mean I am indifferent to it anyways but that is just the 3 major areas that should be looked into regarding timelocks.
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  6. #16
    Whitelisted Predator Audi_Gzz's Avatar
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    Only thing it needs to be on is Squad Lead, XO, CE,RO,MP,CMP and Obviously roundstart queen CL literally contributes nothing and thats why there was a update which just creates more problems with CL's being like some retarded ass antag like its base ss13 with the XRF clearance thing which is annoying for researchers to constantly ask "hey CL please mswipe!!!PLES BRO PLES!!!" this is why admins or mods also dont respond to the faxes because CL's take anything you say and give themselves a reason to be a antag on the ship. nothing else needs to be timelocked but those roles I said, I guess you guys can argue about squad medic or doctor but its just like eh

  7. #17
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    Yeah. I also agree with department head and roundstart Queen timelocks. I also agree the cumulative time to unlock XO should be the equivalent to the time to unlock roundstart Queen.

    I’m 50/50 on squad roles. SL is by far more difficult to play than SO as was mentioned. I think Squad Medic was hyped up a bit. I think Spec should have a timelock solely because of their importance in utility and limited slots. SG I feel similarly.

    CL is, as was said, not worth a timelock. The impact a CL has on the round is negligible relative to other timelocked roles. I hate to say timelock doctor because researcher is just...not appealing as a role in the slightest.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Mann handle's Avatar
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    Going to be brutally honest, trial by fire is a far better system than this. The only things that needed time locking was XO, CMP, MP and round start queen. These are the roles that actually have a massive impact on a round in that if they are completely new they would most likely torpedo someones game in a matter of seconds or effectively end up with steamrolling games. Sure one could argue that a bald SO will OB the wrong thing, but even veteran SOs do that, not to mention people rely on information being handed to them so it's not likely to be the SO's fault but rather the idiot on the ground. Others will point out that bald medics, engineers and doctors. The response to that is that they won't actually learn a thing until they actually play that role, after all what will playing a private teach about medical or even engineering. So all we've done with the time lock is delayed how much someone can be bald for a couple of hours at most, so no surprises when people still do the same shit but with a couple of hours in delay times. So that means we will still get people who don't know a role in every role there is, big whoop.

    Also, evidence of paint huffing on someone's part has been shown with MT, CE, CT and RO timelocks. Cargo is fairly easy to teach a complete noob to the role, I can teach someone cargo in 5 - 10 minutes while serving the line back when cargo was much harder to actually do, the wiki is also very informative on some aspects of it so there is at least something to read up on if people actually need to. Shit was easy to pick up and the most you actually need to teach someone is where shit is and how to operate the lift, if you do it right you may even have a new cargo player provided that they can deal with the massive downtime cargo gets at times. MT's and CE's time lock makes me crease with the suggestion of it. There is no fucking content related to those roles that is in any shape complex most of the time engineering does nothing once things are set up correctly and the whole role can be done by one person with a decent level of efficiency, with two people for maximum efficiency. The cannon is easy to load and takes a minute tops, the engine is just a baby sitting task with a boring ass time sink approach to it and setting up the hanger for the pilots is rather simple with a tiny bit of communication simply for the fact that one dropship is getting a lot of investment while the other one is getting next to no investment. In fact the hanger can be done by POs in a reasonable amount of time. As with the previous statement on cargo, there is a wiki unless you are some sub 90 IQ individual or have difficulty reading English the time lock is as useful as it is helpful in those regards.

    For xenos, you're either good or you're not. Learn from each death and become more robust as time goes on. Xeno queens however come in a few important flavours that requires a time lock as it really can hamper a round. Still, the biggest thing about xenos is communication and not murderboning everything when captures are far more useful. Same issues with marines for the most part, xenos can't learn a caste if they don't play it and if they don't speak a common language, (hint: it's English). You don't even need that much English to effectively learn most roles in the hive, just the synergies between them. I would argue that the most difficult part to penetrate about xeno gameplay is the fucking retarded terms xeno players come up with in special snowflake fashion, long spitter for a sniper, turtle for the tank. This sort of shit makes learning xeno harder than a cargo tech dealing bloody attachments in shorthand. Infact the xeno terms people come up with can be so stupid sometimes that even I have to scratch my head and wonder why we can't just use simple English to describe what we're being shot by, then I remember that we can use English without RP terms and realize that xeno RP is just bad and obtuse to newer players.

    That being said, the only actual time lock for all roles bar the ones mentioned right at the beginning is a one hour time lock so that people can be can be taught about how SS13 works rather than CM, so how to use hands, dress oneself, interact with items. The main issue here is that these time locks are achieving nothing, all they are doing is;
    1. Delaying aspects of the game to players with the expectation they might have learnt something, not realizing that you need to actually play a role to learn it.
    2. Creating a system where people who are time locked out of content have to play something they might not enjoy just to get other parts unlocked, sure you can argue all you want about this but I do remember times where devs said they wouldn't actively force players into playing something they don't like
    3. Not solving a damn thing. If someone is new to SS13 or a role for instance, 3 hours as a marine will not mean much to them, they will suck, they will be bald. Let them, they will learn, instead actually teach them. If they can't speak English
      then don't expect time locks to do anything seeing as the wiki wont help them and most of a player base might not be able to communicate with them.
    4. Shit's simple to play why change something so drastically when only a couple things needed a lock. Honestly I played medic after one game as a marine, never played marine again for a long time afterwards, this was back in the day when QC OD was an insta kill. Did I make mistakes? sure I learned from them, time locked players will still make mistakes or suck in general. The game has only gotten simpler and while features are added, they are not complex at all. In some ways,
      CM is the easiest server to play on because it has very little depth and complexity to most elements of it. That's saying something when things like mercdonalds exists and has more depth and complexity to it while being designed as a pick up and play game.
    5. Shows an elite culture. Let's be honest, not every new player is a paint huffing, drug dealing Brazilian. Nor is every player a 160+ IQ White Übermensch that can operate the game perfectly by flexing at his monitor. Why a system like this is in place is just stupid, if someone can learn medical in the space of 20 minutes, why lock them out of medic for three hours or doctor for six hours, three of them being medic or research for nine hours, with three of them being a medic and three being a doctor
    6. Could potently cause people to just not bother, causing a drought in a certain role. Self explanatory, we've all seen games where 200 people will be on but no cargo staff or engineering members joined.
    Last edited by Mann handle; 12-15-2019 at 03:12 AM.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Why people fucking hate those Xeno terms? It's like a thorn in their eyes and salt on their wounds. If you start arguing that those terms "make learning beno harder", because some Brazillian, or Russian can't speak english at all and he won't be able to figure out on first glance what "Long Spitter", or "Turtle" is, then You are one of the Biggest and Most Disguisting Benomains that live on Earth.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member kooarbiter's Avatar
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    I think giving a fluff rank or title for the first x amount of hours in a role does a better job of fixing this problem. Keep head of staff timelocks and for queen instead of requiring a large amount of time as xeno, change it to an hour or so as each tier one to get the gist of how each works and codepends on each other.

    As said before, locking off roles won't make people better at them, at least remove ct lock, it is literally designed to teach brainlets how to play









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