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Thread: Metarushing discussion

  1. #1
    Moderator & Synthetic Senator liltiptop's Avatar
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    Metarushing discussion

    This is a thread for discussing the ruling of metarushing, especially on Big Red.

    Here's rule 6, about meta stuff:


    Rule 6. No Metagaming or Metacommunication - Acting upon knowledge your character does not have or communicating information about the current round, including but not limited to private discussions, chat rooms, and voice chats during the game. If you want to talk to other CM players about CM or just in general, we have an official Discord, but keep the discussion about past rounds and never about the current one.

    Examples:
    Welding vents before seeing the aliens use them or before they've boarded the ship.
    Building defenses on the ship before a hostile force is en route.
    "Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after the first contact, directly to their hive.

    Examples that are NOT Metagaming:
    Aliens slashing powered devices such as APCs, cameras, and lights.


    Discuss what you think should be considered metarushing or not below.

  2. #2
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    The concept of metarushing even being possible on maps other than Big Red is pretty absurd to me. Those maps have locks in place to prevent that very thing, and the way it works the only way to go after those go down is to the hive. Big Red is different because you can meta rush the hive and just fuck up Xenos, but that's very blatant. Ice doesn't really matter because who the hell cares what marines do on Ice?

    There is no written formal ruling on what metarushing is to my knowledge.

    Alhough it hasn't been validated by staff for sure, here's a reasonably accurate version:
    Rushing to a position or state of being in order to gain a fighting advantage, using meta-information your character(s) do not have IC, ignoring other obvious paths, items, locations or objectives and roleplay in the process.

    Examples:

    1. Sending a squad to flank the caves because you know xenos don't usually protect their flank when they hive in that area.
    2. Sending all squads to the same location because you know that's where the xenos are going to be.
    3. Sending a squad to fortify a location because you know it will give you a strong tactical advantage against xenos.
    4. Not scouting a part of the map at all because you know xenos aren't going to be there.
    5. Sending a squad to a particular place because you know there will be strong gear to recover there.

    Xenomorphs heavily rely on time to become powerful, while the marines start at their best. One of the advantages of this is even if the xenos are going to win the round swiftly and easily, the marines (main characters of the story) will still have time to play and roleplay, as the xenos will need some amount of time before they can beat them.

    The game is roleplay focused and the balance of the game heavily relies on marines roleplaying properly. This proved to not be the case every round so mechanics were implemented to keep the game flow in check. However, there is no way to force roleplay on 80 players just with mechanics while keeping the roleplay possibilities as wide as they currently are or we just didnt figure it out yet, so some of the metarushing is still being enforced obviously through OOC staff intervention which sometimes it's annoying.

    But to be honest, Senior staff needs to make a judgement call here.

    Because personally, I don't see the point in attempting to ban Marines for trying to stop a round from turning into a 4 hour sludgefest. If we want to give Xenos 20-30 minutes to set up, weed the entire map and lay eggs everywhere, then change the pacing of how Marine round start goes.

    Like when Marines wake up, let it be known that Dropships can't launch until 12:30 or 12:45 or what ever magic number people decide on. Marines can go grab food (preferably having a better dining area with food out ready to go and not a conga line for the vendors.) Marines get time to eat, chat with their squadmates and attempt something resembling RP. Marines get on Uniform and go to Briefing. Require only Jumpsuits and boots (and tags) for Briefing and make it an actual formation like any military briefing should be. Commander giving rundown of the mission thus far and need to know info. Marines then go to their prep rooms, gear up and hit Req for attachments. (For the love of god, move RDS to marine vendors), ETA 5 minutes Marines begin boarding shuttles and make preps for final touch down. An ARES scan before departure would make more IC sense to at least confirm if there are any survivors.

    And that's it. No more need for 'metarushing' or some other excuse to punish marines for playing the game as it allows them. Xenos get a chance to do their thing undisturbed, Fogs and locks can be disabled and Marines can move into Colony/Station at whatever pace they choose. Xenos don't have the excuse to hide in their hive till they start getting mature or elite and nobody gets salty because someone ran to an area too early.

    Just my twocents.
    Last edited by Enyonggg; 12-11-2019 at 06:38 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Destrok's Avatar
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    What if I told you that you can stop a marine metarush by having a competent xeno builder

    I literally went hivelord on a random ass LV round, the only one, made some basic fortifications in barrens (2x2 blocks shit) and lo and behold, marines didn't even set foot in containers

    Metarush isn't a fucking problem, xenos are bald and they're getting handheld by the staff team so they don't have any incentive to improve themselves. I am saying this as an all-main, I play marine, I play xeno, I play survivor, I play shipside. I am telling you. Xeno players. Are. Bald. At least most of them are. Much like marines, they have a robust core that scores the majority of the kills, and then they have the cannon fodder.

    If you REALLY wanted to "fix" metarushing, do it with adding mechanics for it, or making maps have better holding spots for xenos, maybe adding more viable hive locations, spawning the queen player 1 minute early so they can choose a hive, or making xenos mature faster, I don't fucking know. There are an INFINITY of solutions that aren't the gay intervention from staff. Like bruh they spawning HEAVY R WALLS IN SOLARIS CHOKES, they ABOMBING, it's fucking arbitrary and feels like they're just powertripping.
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  4. #4
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    The baseline for metarushes should be these questions...

    First thing, STOP JUST HARMING MARINES, and no new larva wont save the aliens you have to balance them back with tier 2s and 3s that are mature perhaps even, the idea of the metarush is they killed the said tier 2 and 3 aliens and thus are utterly crippled to the point it will take them an other 30 minutes to even fight at all. If you don't want to give aliens those free tier 2 and 3 you would need to damage marines harshly enough the aliens would have a breather to rebuild, which would debalance the game anyway as marines cant just rebuild after losing 30 marines to admin rebalance...

    Do aliens have tier 3s even? No? Are marines pushing hive? It a metarush or aliens are stupidly suicidal and ethier way aliens need help and maybe marines punished

    Are the tier 3s mature? Maturation is usually about 30-35 so minutes roughly, reason it matters is to prevent rapid replacement of tier 3s the goal is to force players to be mature before they are combat able and from larva to mature tier 3 is about 30 minutes thus. If no mature tier 3s it might be a meta-rush, basically if it 29 minutes or earlier it likely a metarush.

    Was queen forced to deovi? Ask the queen first why she did it and where she deovi. A queen making a nest at containers tbh deserves to feel the pain of a metarush, do meme strats get memed on. Or in other words the queen is too far forward and might even be in prime marine positions that the marines want. BUT, some queens want to be far forward or want the marines to push in towards the nest. Sometimes the queen is luring the marines right into a trap other times the queen is hoping to ovi far forward to deovi early and make a nasty deathball with carriers and tier3s to wipe the intial push. TLDR, ask the queen and figure her position before considering metarush if queen forced to deovi before 35 minutes.

    Ask the above to consider if it a metarush or not. Most of the time it is aliens that are too unrobust or have no defenses vs robust marines and just collapsing to the assault.

    Now most of the time metarushes don't occur, you want a metarush you tell the men to drop 12:15 and bum rush the caves with maybe bravo to sit at LZ to prevent queen cheesing the dropship. A lot of times metarushes occur because 'robust' marines aren't letting some alien just runaway when they can just PB it and get their KD up. Basically command has to literally acknowledge that delta can't be at the front right away because they will metarush and get away with it, mostly because they got wiped but still. Other times alpha or charlie will rush in and die. It practically tradition to have rambos push in and die because they are only 10-30 marines vs 30 aliens without cades. Though if a rambo group of 10-30 marines are wiping the aliens we don't have a metarush issue, we have either really REALLY bad aliens or alien/marine balance is off and then it a dev problem not an admin problem. And yes it is funny to watch the rambos push and get merked early on as aliens because it gives captures and weakens the marines, all good for an alien player.

  5. #5
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    I've been in more than enough failed pushes to know this meta rush thing is overblown. It's a matter of bugs failing to stop a push. In fact, a lot of bug gameplay revolves around baiting Marines to chase them. There's no issue if they know Marines chase them and can get a kill off, but suddenly because they're too incompetent to lead Marines away from their hive it's the Marines fault? There is no organic way to have the Marines just STOP if they know they have a kill waiting for them. "Oh, enemy is wounded and running off to lick their wounds, time to sit here with my thumbs up my ass because they'll whine about me killing them too early." Meta rush shouldn't be tossed around. It was a more appropriate term for when Delta waltzed into civilian residence and popped the queen because they never make a hive anywhere but there for some reason. Every time I've seen "Stop Meta Rushing" in big green letters bugs have lost. After waiting for the approved time, they were routed. Easily. They aren't any less dangerous, but one or two bugs can't carry a hive and when most of them can't stop a push and instead lead the Marines to the queen, then there may be a player problem on that side. We just have to wait until they get good.

  6. #6
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    Yea I know Metarushing sucks because it doesn't make for a fun round and what not.

    The thing is, xeno mechanics encourage for us to not sit on our asses doing fuck all to them.
    What do I mean by this? I mean the age Mechanic.
    We were talking about it over discord I learned that a surv fighting an ancient burrower blew up a gastank near it and gave it +3 Buckshot PB before it finally went down. So that's the damage from the explosion + the dot from fire + 3 buckshot. To kill it.
    Meanwhile the same surv shot a young warrior like two times with buckshot and it died.

    The metarushing happens because of the age mechanic gives marines a reason not to wait around. Ancient T3s (even some T2s in rare cases) are difficult to handle, so it's best to remove them before that can happen. Honestly I think we need to rethink the way around the age mechanic.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grentex View Post
    Yea I know Metarushing sucks because it doesn't make for a fun round and what not.

    The thing is, xeno mechanics encourage for us to not sit on our asses doing fuck all to them.
    What do I mean by this? I mean the age Mechanic.
    We were talking about it over discord I learned that a surv fighting an ancient burrower blew up a gastank near it and gave it +3 Buckshot PB before it finally went down. So that's the damage from the explosion + the dot from fire + 3 buckshot. To kill it.
    Meanwhile the same surv shot a young warrior like two times with buckshot and it died.

    The metarushing happens because of the age mechanic gives marines a reason not to wait around. Ancient T3s (even some T2s in rare cases) are difficult to handle, so it's best to remove them before that can happen. Honestly I think we need to rethink the way around the age mechanic.
    Except it's an RP server and the marines ICly do not know that, which is the root of the problem.

    Powergaming + metagaming = Metarush

  8. #8
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    Destrok is right, xeno playerbase is bad at the game. This is because the way Devs count winrate is stupid and inflates xeno wins and xenos are not allowed to fail to lower the winrate when admins and others spawn in 50 new xenos or nuke marines into a loss. If they used their own mechanics to adjust balance of the game this would have been fixed a long time ago but they don't they prop it up and let it fester into worse situations. Its also because most of the good xeno players quit playing xeno because xeno isn't fun anymore and hasn't been in over a year. I literally used to only play xeno and I now play marine more than xeno. You will never balance the game around crap players and still have it fun for the other side because you will have to make the side with crap players completely ez mode to overcome how bad they are.

    There is gonna be tons of misinformation and bias in this thread and that makes it pretty pointless. I can already see people who only play marine and have no idea what they are talking about and people who don't understand game mechanics and making wrong assumptions because of it.
    Last edited by MasterShakeEZ; 12-11-2019 at 07:17 AM.

  9. #9
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    This thread is amazingly not a whole load of shit flinging and xenos mad x∞, for now anyway. It's also good to see it focusing on Solaris Ridge, I think everyone would agree that's the map with the biggest metarush problem. Prison is probably the second worse but that's by design and it has got timelock mechanisms.

    Personally I play xenos about 60% of the time, and when I do I normally go for support roles.

    There are really good points here from everyone, one thing I think people need to focus on is what Destrok has said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Destrok View Post
    What if I told you that you can stop a marine metarush by having a competent xeno builder
    This is absolutely true and it's important enough that if you're playing xeno and there's only 2 drones at round start, someone needs to devolve to larva and become a drone for the hive to even have a chance on BR or prison. It's just that simple, you cannot defend the hive without having dedicated builders. It's like marines not having a FOB.

    To expand on why: mobility is a huge part of CM's combat. To get kills marines need to be able to chase down xenos, to avoid dying xenos need to be able to out run marines. Weeds slow down marines and speed up xenos, sticky resin massively slows down marines and makes them easy targets for pounce/spit/lunge/acid spray/ect. Resin walls provide cover, can control marine's mobility and funnel them into tight spaces for crushers/boilers to meme. Doors, despite have 1/5 a walls health, can even be used for extreme memes*.

    But that's just in combat, in the normal round flow defences are even more important because they blunt the initial delta unga rush. Wide areas of sticky make marines use nades, OB's, CAS, ect to clear them. Sometimes they even make people use flamers to clear them, slowing down marines even more. All of this time and munitions spent attacking defences is time and munitions not spent killing xenos. It's time xenos have to mature, move into position to counter-attack/defend, and build more defences to slow down the marines even further.

    Having said that, I do think xenos need a bit more in the early game to help them out here. Because it's not uncommon for marines to land at 12:22-3, get to filtration caves at 12:26, and push into the caves before 12:30. I don't want to see more timelock mechanics because I hate timelock mechanics, and I don't want to buff xenos because state wise xenos are fine honestly, especially with some of the T3 strains being a bit ridiculous. I do think that drone's plasma regen could use a change though: specifically flattening it's plasma regen gain across maturation. Ancient drone's plasma regen is ridiculous, I don't even like evolving to Hivelord from ancient drone because of the lose in plasma regen. Yes you're better in the long run but early game is so important. I think young/mature drone should have their plasma regen buffed, whilst elder/ancient have it nerfed. That will let xenos get more defences out overall, without making it so late into the round you just get unlimited resin works every fucking where.

    When I'm building defences as a drone I'm always out of plasma until you ancient and then you just can't spend it fast enough, at which point it becomes a meme. The only way you can run out of plasma as an ancient drone is spamming weeds and plasma transfer though I don't remember the last time that happened to me.

    *I fucking hate door memes, devs should make it so that doors cannot have more than 2 doors around them.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heraclitus View Post
    snip
    sticky has been garbage since they reworked all the xeno structures and weed. It is literally just a waste of time to put down for anyone whos not a praetorian.

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