Staff Report - JarekTheRaptor

[Slduggy]

Staff Report

Your BYOND Key

SlDuggy

Date of Incident

December 11, 2019

Your Character Name?

Noah 'Biceps' Cruz

Their BYOND Key

JarekTheRaptor

Approximate time and date of the incident

1300-1330~ EST

Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken

2. Investigate the situation , 3. Determine the seriousness of the issue, 5. Determine the punishmen

Description of the incident

My aHelp was passed from from 2 admins and a Mod. So it's not necessarily anyone fault and might be a big miscommunication but I received a note for power gaming for taking 2 grenade casings and 2 proximity switches from research, and then having them taken away from me. I don't know what the note says and no ban was applied, but frankly bullshit notes that I didn't bother to appeal in the past are starting to be held against me.

The other staff members involved were Frozenbgg and Forest2001. Forest initially started the aHelp chain by bwoinking me, and Frozenbgg told Jarek to apply the note, and Jarek told me to put his name on the staff report.

The events in the round:

I asked research to put together a chem grenade for me, the first researcher attempted to but couldn't figure out how to screwdriver the components together and gave up, a second researcher offered to make me a chem grenade for the price of glass, I said "or I could just make it myself",I then proceeded to shove a 2 chem grenade casings and 2 proximity switches in my backpack, what then happened next was the researchers slept me with Suxa and took the components back. I retaliated by bombing part of research.

The explanation:

After all that forest bwoinks me telling me to "stop fucking with research". I tell him what happened and he explains to me that you can't ICLY justify throwing grenades into an empty room, mid explanation he has to leave and hands the aHelp over to Jarek.

Jarek then asks me what went on and I tell him what I told forest. He then says there is no issue with the other stuff, the problem was that I was power gaming. I ask for clarification and he explains it as well as he can, but ultimately concedes that he can't really give me a good answer. Frozen then steps in to provide clarification on why I am getting noted.


I wasn't able to get screen shots of the previous ahelps as I realized to late that I was getting noted, but im sure you can pull logs. Before I get into the screenshots I'd like too clarify that no chem grenade was ever made in this round by me, all I did was take two grenade casings and two proximity switches.

Intial PM from Frozen:

https://imgur.com/2ZtoqTa

Frozen thankfully post a definition of powergaming, I don't believe by picking up things from the floor and putting them in my back pack is outside of my role. But it was the intent that was the issue. When I point out that this is a slippery slope that can be applied to many common marine actions such as, giving an engie plasteel. Other examples may include: PFCs throwing intel for IOs to pick up, not gibbing Xenos for defcon, anything to do with preds and pred gear, turning your monitor brightness really high as a PFC so you can play the role of spec, stealing a sentry gun from alpha prep so your engineer can have two, stealing a spray bottle from hydroponics on LV-642 returning it to the researchers so they can make you thermite, an engineer hacking his vendor to give a smart gunner a super cap so their smartgun works for longer. There is a lot of this Metaknowledegey behavior but why was I noted for it? Frozen clarifies:

In response to "Is handing an Engie plasteel powergaming?":

https://imgur.com/e4s0vgN

So now the issue is no longer with the intent, but with the fact that I was circumventing someone from denying me stuff? This also happens a lot, for example: Engies wrenching down tables and chairs, Marines busting into squad preps/ squad reqs to loot other squads stuff, IOs and SLs launching dropships, breaking into req via the plastic flaps to take the MDs they wont hand out, medics getting engies to hack the Medbay vendors, lower chemistry denying you chems so you go ask the researcher to make them for you. Again why am I being noted for this?

In response to "Is asking the XO to vend you attachments powergaming?"

https://imgur.com/EfkP9w5

So now the issue is my intentions were not crucial to marine success?, I think asking someone else to make you a chem grenade is on the same level as the stuff mentioned above in terms of "criticality to marine success"

In response to "what im saying is if req denies ME attachments, and I ask the the XO/synth etc. to vend them for me. Is this power gaming?"

https://imgur.com/dMyaTUl

So the issue now is that my character doesn't have knowledge of what grenade parts look like? So would a PFC have knowledge of what: A powercell looks like, a power control module, airlock electronics, plasteel, Xeno eggs, xeno traps, an APC, a fuel tank, tank ammo, any sort of intel unless they had the intel scanner, a stolen or lost tcomms part, part of a sentry gun, surgery tools, spec ammo, colony synthetics, non-hostile survivors, the button to open the shutters on prison station, etc.

My point is that, what am I not allowed to pick up and give to other people to use/assemble? which was my intention with the grenade parts.

I tried to justify this from an IC standpoint instead of asking Frozen every instance which under the same scrutiny may be powergaming.

In response to "I didnt print any of the items from the lathe I just picked up what the researcher put down"
https://imgur.com/kGllpda

Frozen is actually wrong here, the PFC skill set does not prevent someone from making chems, it's an ID lock. Regardless, yes I understood that its powergaming to do something which shouldn't be this which is why I only took the component parts for the grenade to give to somebody else to assemble.

Argument:

My argument isn't "Just because other people do it, therefore its okay", what I'm trying to say is that, it's not immediately intuitive what items/combination of items constitute powergaming. I wasn't trying to be a researcher by stealing those grenade parts, I was trying to get someone else (not PFC me) to make me a chem grenade.

I engaged in no grenade making myself and I think that its reasonable for a PFC to know what objects might be useful in making a grenade, especially a PFC that watched the researcher print and attempt to assemble a grenade. If this is not the case please clarify for me items that are not okay for a PFC to give to someone else to assemble/use so I do not repeat this mistake in the future and can aHelp other powergamers.

Items in question:

Paper Scraps, Intel folders,Fultons, Xenomorph Eggs, Crates for req, Specialist ammunition, Specialist weapons, Sentry gun Parts,Hyperwave filters, Micro Manipulators, Engineering parts(Powercells, PCMs, Airlock electronics), any types of vendors including non-marine medical vendors, robotic limbs, Pill bottles, any type of advanced or Specialized first Aid kits, Hyposprays, Stasis Bags, Medevac stretchers, IV drips, Blood Bags, Scapel, Laser Scapel, IMS, Hemostat, Bone Gel, Bone Setter, Retractor, Cautery, Fix-O-Vien, Circular Saw, Insulated gloves, Light Replacer, Plasteel, Glass, Reinforced Glass, Phoron, Intel Scanners, Generators, M56D parts, Blue Space Beakers.

Also please clarify which roles these are Okay for and not Okay for.

Evidence

Links to the screenshots are in the Description of the incident

How you would punish the accused

I Just want the note removed or someone to tell me specifically what items/combination of items will get me banned in the future if I ask someone to use them for me.

[Taketheshot56]

The note in question

Asked research for a chemical grenade. When denied, broke into research and attempted to build their own grenades. Warned for powergaming.
by (Moderator) on Wed, December 11th of 2019

[Slduggy]

The note in question

Asked research for a chemical grenade. When denied, broke into research and attempted to build their own grenades. Warned for powergaming.
by (Moderator) on Wed, December 11th of 2019

Thanks for posting it, the note itself is inaccurate as I never broke into research, I was let into research, when denied the grenades I took the components as I left. Perhaps that further contributes to the breaking of Staff Protocol 2

[CryoDrake]

I will pull the logs later

[Frozentsbgg]

As PFC, you bothered research from early on in the round for nades, being rejected, asked to leave, and dragged out several times. You resorted to breaking into research in order to steal the components necessary for someone else to construct nades for you.

Your actions as PFC, were outside your assigned job, and skillset. While you could say you just picked the items off the ground, its the intent that makes this power gaming. Your intent was to get someone else to build nades for you, by breaking into research and stealing the components that you knew were necessary for the construction of the nades.

I'd also like to clarify, that my responses to your 'questions', were based on those individual situations, and not reflective of your specific case.
You've tried to portray this as if i've changed my answer and contradicted myself, which I believe is not reflective of the context of our conversation.
Each specific 'question' you asked, had a different answer and I don't think those scenarios are at all comparable to your individual situation.

[JarekTheRaptor]

That note I placed was a bit vague, I'll admit. Definitely could have gone into a bit more detail there. What I meant by that was you broke into research to aquire the parts to build the grenade which effectively sums up to you breaking in to build your own grenades without me having to explain the exact specifics of the situation since I'm trying to move away from writing an essay every time I apply a note to someone.


I didn't follow the chain of ahelps that were questions since I was off doing other things at that point so I can't say anything about that. It's probably worth mentioning that I did get a second opinion from frozen here on the situation, so even if I had made a bad call surely he'd have picked up on it. Anywyay, He's already pretty much said everything else I needed to say, I'd just be repeating those points again if I kept going.

[Slduggy]

As PFC, you bothered research from early on in the round for nades, being rejected, asked to leave, and dragged out several times. You resorted to breaking into research in order to steal the components necessary for someone else to construct nades for you.

Your actions as PFC, were outside your assigned job, and skillset. While you could say you just picked the items off the ground, its the intent that makes this power gaming. Your intent was to get someone else to build nades for you, by breaking into research and stealing the components that you knew were necessary for the construction of the nades.

I'd also like to clarify, that my responses to your 'questions', were based on those individual situations, and not reflective of your specific case.
You've tried to portray this as if i've changed my answer and contradicted myself, which I believe is not reflective of the context of our conversation.
Each specific 'question' you asked, had a different answer and I don't think those scenarios are at all comparable to your individual situation.

The questions posed are right before the image, there is no misrepresentation here, your responses were to specific situations and how they DONT apply to my situation. I was merely trying to show how they infact are not that different.

I was never dragged out of research, they locked me in after injecting me with Suxa and closing the shutters, there wasnt an attempt to "drag me out". The logs will show this. If req was bothered or not the comments by Kaga were in reference to a round where I primed a chem grenade that instantly exploded in my hand, that the only reason they were denying me chem grenades (oh wait they didnt even deny me chem nades).

I mean no disrespect but I don't think you have a clear picture of the situation that occurred I broke no windows, the doors were opened to me. The logs should reflect this also. Did you read the report thoroughly? If intent is the issue please address this section:

Frozen thankfully post a definition of powergaming, I don't believe by picking up things from the floor and putting them in my back pack is outside of my role. But it was the intent that was the issue. When I point out that this is a slippery slope that can be applied to many common marine actions such as, giving an engie plasteel. Other examples may include: PFCs throwing intel for IOs to pick up, not gibbing Xenos for defcon, anything to do with preds and pred gear, turning your monitor brightness really high as a PFC so you can play the role of spec, stealing a sentry gun from alpha prep so your engineer can have two, stealing a spray bottle from hydroponics on LV-642 returning it to the researchers so they can make you thermite, an engineer hacking his vendor to give a smart gunner a super cap so their smartgun works for longer.

Please tell me how these situations don't constitute powergaming as a PFC.

[CryoDrake]

Logs of the issue:

The PMs from all 3 mods:

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Dubszor and I are going to review it

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Dubszor and I discussed this since there were multiple people involved.
In the end this isn't a powergaming issue because you can't make the grenades as a PFC, you don't have the skills.

However I just want to say this, unless you had some elaborate back story of being a chemistry prodigy turned marine, you as a PFC do not have the IC knowledge to tell a researcher "This is how you make grenades by doing x" If you wanna help them LOOC or adminhelp a mentor to get them assistance, you can do that.

Had you been told no grenades, and broke your way into research, it would have been LRP/Round Start Shenanigans. Extra things like researcher grenades, medical bay cocktails, kits are consider a privilege, not a right. If you can't get those things because of legtimate IC reasons, it's the same as how someone who gets denied attachments with a legtimate reason. You don't get to cry foul and cause issues to get them.

We will remove the note, but this was a judgement call without malicious intent, so I don't see the need to punish anyone.