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Thread: MP hate is a scam to lower RP standards - prove me wrong

  1. #1
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    MP hate is a scam to lower RP standards - prove me wrong

    I've been playing SS13 for four years now. I never liked playing security on other servers. I started playing MP on CM as an opportunity to learn about the Almayer layout and how rounds work but most importantly to not immediately drop into a TDM situation which my horribly unrobust self would suck at.

    Then something odd happened. I started to main MP. I realized that I liked the slower pace of the role sometimes and there is still an opportunity to get more robust on the 60% or so of rounds with a hijack.

    I started to see all this outrage about MP play. And I thought to myself Dear God I don't want to be one of those. So I asked around - what do MPs do that's bad, what should I not do?

    I heard some valuable feedback, for example to ensure that minimum sentences are used whenever possible, to follow arrest procedure, to use your authority to ignore minor crimes at times. But nothing about outright griefing by MPs. Nothing about blatant powertripping or rule-skirting.

    And yet I kept hearing it.

    "MPs are shit."
    "MPs are nazis."

    Or, here's this gem of a quote from one of our admins: "MP is currently a griefer role."

    I believe now that MP hate is one big scam. Allow me to explain.

    1. First, it is valuable to note that there are really two different environments in the game. There's the Almayer, or as I like to call it, the RP SimulatorTM, and then there is the surface or as I like to call it, the Team Deathmatch SimulatorTM. Both operate almost independently, with different things happening and different players gravitating to each environment. The Almayer can be mid or even high RP at times, depending on the roles and the circumstances. Talking about whether xeno research should go on in containment. Arrests for disrespecting an officer. The CL and all of their nonsense... I mean "roleplay." The surface? It's all kill or be killed for the most part. I guess there are predators, but no one cares about them, right?

      99% of the time, MPs remain on the Almayer. It's valuable here to point out that while MP hate comes from all corners, a lot of it comes from individuals who main PFC or other surface-side roles and often are salty about being brigged in their most recent round.

      It goes without saying that people who do not like RP don't want to play RP-heavy roles or in RP-heavy environments.
    2. MPs are OOCly bound to marine law. As in, they are required to follow it, sentence within it and utilize arrest procedure. Failure to do so is a bwoinkable OOC violation. This is an important point. Considering MP hate is so extreme I expect people ahelp if they feel at all wronged by an MP when it comes to procedure or sentencing or whatnot. In fact, I've been pinged as MP for procedure, even when I was in the right. I've gotten "why are you permabrigging that marine" even as all of his fellows with him are still around me actively flooding the brig to break out someone else (what he was doing too prior to being arrested). If MPs are so terrible why is it in 50+ rounds I can't remember a single MP being put to a permanent sleep by staff? All this said: Please, please please ahelp bad MPs. I don't know who is giving us a bad name but whoever legitimately is should be dealt with.
    3. When someone is brigged they literally get put into a timeout from the round. If they are playing for the TDM piece and not to RP then it would be highly aggravating to be placed in a box with nothing but RP to do for X minutes. I think this is critical for understanding the OOC salt.
    4. I've asked for specific examples of bad MP play and the best feedback I've gotten was "brigged me for X during briefing."
    5. RP is not for everybody. Four years ago as a newbie on Paradise Station I used to get frustrated myself when I was forced into an RP situation.
    6. I've probably played around 50 rounds as an MP and with manybdifferent MP/CMP players. I have not once seen anything egregious by a fellow MP. No powertrippers, no wanton violence, no torture, no max punishments 4noraisin. Hell, hardly any max punishments even when there was a reason to do so. And yet, even after those very rounds, I see such vitriol directed at MPs.



    It is no secret that certain players like to troll and bait the MPs during briefing and elsewhere and then claim false outrage because MPs arrested them. I've seen multiple rounds where a valid arrest was used as an excuse to attempt to mutiny. I personally fear applying handcuffs in briefing because I don't want to be the reason a certain squad cites for causing everyone's round to devolve into a chucklefuckfest.

    I think this is an apt metaphor for the larger game going on here. MPs are the strawman here in a larger attempt to use MP hate to overthrow the structure of RP on the server. What all of this points to in my opinion is that people who hate on MPs in large part want to see CM move away from RP. MPs are the easy target here, they represent the fun police against those who see zero value in RP.


    I'm not saying "hug an MP today" however I think we're falsely accused here.

    By the way, I believe Marine Law deserves a major rework and clarification but MPs shouldn't be hated on for following it as it is now. That said, the current state of Marine Law, while headscratching about some things, has nothing on 1939 Germany so don't believe the hype.

    tl;dr: I believe MPs are the scapegoat of a movement that wants CM to ditch med-RP. Also I need a hug. Not that kind of hug, Jesus, get that crab away from me!

    I am interested in understanding where any valid MP dislike is coming from and informing my opinion on this. Maybe I'm wrong... but I don't think I am.

  2. #2
    Primordial Member CABAL's Avatar
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    MPs aren't "scapegoat" of movement that wants CM to ditch MRP. If that would be the case, the would be removed by staff long ago.

    MPs are hated for either completly not knowing Marine Law, SOP and Arrest Procedures and those who know, enforce and abuse it (within boundries of law, but still annoying).
    First group sometimes gets a bwoink after marine get unlawfully arrested, the other is left doing what they did.

    Rex Texas is a famous example. Did you know that hitting window with satchel doing 0 damage is technically "Damage of Goverment Property" by the Marine Law? Did you know that if you are PFC, you are not allowed to wear any other helmet than standard? No Medic helmet, no Engineer helmet, no PO helmet etc. Why? Because it technically falls under "Failure to Follow Procedure" as "Standard Equipment" is what Marine spawns in Cryo gets in Req, or takes from his vendor.

    Those two examples doesn't harm anything, "commiting" those crimes and getting punishment isn't "making Staffmemes job easier", because there is no point to enforce such things.

    MPs have all the tools to "forgive" minor crimes and apply NJP's, yet as far as I remember I don't recall getting NJP, or seeing marine doing NJP. Everytime it's brig with max timers (and mandatory one timer lower, so that he can say in Bwoinks that not everything is max, thus fine).

    MPs have NOTHING to do after 12:30, so they get bored and everyone gets corrupted. No single human is able to stay sane by playing MP over and over.

    Even if they are doing "good job", you have nothing to respect them for. On normal station you can hate Shitcurity for beating clown for slipping people, but the same shitcurity fights Cults/Slings/Lings/Traitors/Benos/etc. Every role on the ship either has a purpose that benefits Marines, or does nothing to hamper them (CL, Researcher). MPs are the only role that has no purpose at all.
    REDEMPTION

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    Tl,dr

    MPs are shit

    Garret Dalheart reporting for Duty!
    Captain Howard Dalheart Captain of the USS Almayer Deceased
    Ckey: TheDexfiles
    Joined the fight 19 Dec 2017


    Current Record holder for most dead in a single OB at 25
    Sorry mates

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    Ancient Member ChengChan's Avatar
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    MPS are hostile for marines.. lol

    Community Mentor
    11-14-2019

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    Senior Member Call me Arty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Rex Texas is a famous example. Did you know that hitting window with satchel doing 0 damage is technically "Damage of Goverment Property" by the Marine Law? Did you know that if you are PFC, you are not allowed to wear any other helmet than standard? No Medic helmet, no Engineer helmet, no PO helmet etc. Why? Because it technically falls under "Failure to Follow Procedure" as "Standard Equipment" is what Marine spawns in Cryo gets in Req, or takes from his vendor.

    MPs have NOTHING to do after 12:30, so they get bored and everyone gets corrupted. No single human is able to stay sane by playing MP over and over.

    Even if they are doing "good job", you have nothing to respect them for. On normal station you can hate Shitcurity for beating clown for slipping people, but the same shitcurity fights Cults/Slings/Lings/Traitors/Benos/etc. Every role on the ship either has a purpose that benefits Marines, or does nothing to hamper them (CL, Researcher). MPs are the only role that has no purpose at all.
    Firstly, here is your ticket to call the famous Rex Texas an absolute ass clown.



    Tophat, voidhelms, bad. No helmet, bandana, anything that says "USCM" on it, fine.

    Secondly: Where are the marines? Groundside, right? When somebody bursts, there is an alleged spy, or a xenomorph gets loose from containment, who is supposed to handle it? If marines are too busy handling the situation on the ground, are the MTs supposed to handle xenos? The doctors? How about the CTs?

    I also don't see why I wouldn't respect good marines. I enjoy playing shipside rolls, so having an MP settle matters with a marine breaking windows in my medbay or disregarded orders to lead a suicide charge is a godsend, so I don't need to handle it myself or get an admin involved. After that, I get to enjoy my own damn round without somebody screwing with it.

    There is not one single law that a marine could justifiably break in their round that is there to stop their fun. Hell, even the oh-so-obnoxious SOP is there to say "Wear armor so you don't die so fast, and keep your gun holstered so some moron disarming you doesn't make it go off in the Spec's face." Regardless, The Squad Who Will Not Be Named want to get involved, so now - if they're playing right - the guy who only wanted to hamper one marine for what, fifteen minutes tops? They have to go and handle potentially a whole squad of people who just couldn't let things be.

    MPs are a good thing to have on the server, unless you want more
    MOOC: Stop the briefing shenanigans right now.

    Bad MPs are bad, call them on their shit and when in doubt, IC call the Gunny, or ask a mentor. When you know that the MP is on some shit, tell an admin. Boom. No more bad MPs.
    Back by intensely unpopular demand.
    Pak Hee-Young - Medical
    Atiqtalaaq 'Polar' Waska - Squaddie

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    Senior Member RaddishRed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call me Arty View Post
    Firstly, here is your ticket to call the famous Rex Texas an absolute ass clown.



    Tophat, voidhelms, bad. No helmet, bandana, anything that says "USCM" on it, fine.

    Secondly: Where are the marines? Groundside, right? When somebody bursts, there is an alleged spy, or a xenomorph gets loose from containment, who is supposed to handle it? If marines are too busy handling the situation on the ground, are the MTs supposed to handle xenos? The doctors? How about the CTs?

    I also don't see why I wouldn't respect good marines. I enjoy playing shipside rolls, so having an MP settle matters with a marine breaking windows in my medbay or disregarded orders to lead a suicide charge is a godsend, so I don't need to handle it myself or get an admin involved. After that, I get to enjoy my own damn round without somebody screwing with it.

    There is not one single law that a marine could justifiably break in their round that is there to stop their fun. Hell, even the oh-so-obnoxious SOP is there to say "Wear armor so you don't die so fast, and keep your gun holstered so some moron disarming you doesn't make it go off in the Spec's face." Regardless, The Squad Who Will Not Be Named want to get involved, so now - if they're playing right - the guy who only wanted to hamper one marine for what, fifteen minutes tops? They have to go and handle potentially a whole squad of people who just couldn't let things be.

    MPs are a good thing to have on the server, unless you want more
    MOOC: Stop the briefing shenanigans right now.

    Bad MPs are bad, call them on their shit and when in doubt, IC call the Gunny, or ask a mentor. When you know that the MP is on some shit, tell an admin. Boom. No more bad MPs.
    You know they won't, it's easier to bitch and moan and not do anything about it. Or, as I've seen with a few people, join as MP and be shit to marines on purpose then cry in last-round-chat about shit MPs.
    Amelia 'Valkyrie' Locke - Alpha Main Part Time Medic/Part Time SL/Full Time Unga


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    Quote Originally Posted by RaddishRed View Post
    You know they won't, it's easier to bitch and moan and not do anything about it. Or, as I've seen with a few people, join as MP and be shit to marines on purpose then cry in last-round-chat about shit MPs.
    Okay. This is what I've wanted to know. How are MPs shit to marines? And how does it compare to how, say, Delta acts? I'm not being cheeky here about Delta. Delta baits MPs a lot and when an arrest happens, they try to leverage that into mutiny. I'd really like to know here, give me specific examples of how MPs can be shit, and why can Delta get away with worse? And when I say "get away with it", I know Delta is disliked by many, but many take the "Oh, that's Quagmire!" approach to Delta. How can Delta be comic relief to some while MPs, much more mild in my opinion and ultimately attempting to reduce chucklefucking that can derail a round, catch all the heat?
    Last edited by alexpkeaton; 12-16-2019 at 11:26 AM.

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    Primordial Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call me Arty View Post
    Firstly, here is your ticket to call the famous Rex Texas an absolute ass clown.



    Tophat, voidhelms, bad. No helmet, bandana, anything that says "USCM" on it, fine.

    Secondly: Where are the marines? Groundside, right? When somebody bursts, there is an alleged spy, or a xenomorph gets loose from containment, who is supposed to handle it? If marines are too busy handling the situation on the ground, are the MTs supposed to handle xenos? The doctors? How about the CTs?

    I also don't see why I wouldn't respect good marines. I enjoy playing shipside rolls, so having an MP settle matters with a marine breaking windows in my medbay or disregarded orders to lead a suicide charge is a godsend, so I don't need to handle it myself or get an admin involved. After that, I get to enjoy my own damn round without somebody screwing with it.

    There is not one single law that a marine could justifiably break in their round that is there to stop their fun. Hell, even the oh-so-obnoxious SOP is there to say "Wear armor so you don't die so fast, and keep your gun holstered so some moron disarming you doesn't make it go off in the Spec's face." Regardless, The Squad Who Will Not Be Named want to get involved, so now - if they're playing right - the guy who only wanted to hamper one marine for what, fifteen minutes tops? They have to go and handle potentially a whole squad of people who just couldn't let things be.

    MPs are a good thing to have on the server, unless you want more
    MOOC: Stop the briefing shenanigans right now.

    Bad MPs are bad, call them on their shit and when in doubt, IC call the Gunny, or ask a mentor. When you know that the MP is on some shit, tell an admin. Boom. No more bad MPs.
    You just activated my "Trap Card". I was charged for FPP for wearing PO helmet. I ahelped that and staffmeme responding took a bit to do it, because I assume he read that. Anything that you can't get from req, from your vendor, or spawn from cryo is non-standard. You claim to know law so good, yet you aren't.

    There is and will never be "alleged spy" on board. If Researchers release benos, it's their problem. Its not like MP's bother to do any paperwork, or atleast acknowledge that benos are around and Marines are way better in dealing with shipside benos than MP's are.

    MP's without original SS13 space station antags are purposless and bad.
    REDEMPTION

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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    You just activated my "Trap Card". I was charged for FPP for wearing PO helmet. I ahelped that and staffmeme responding took a bit to do it, because I assume he read that. Anything that you can't get from req, from your vendor, or spawn from cryo is non-standard. You claim to know law so good, yet you aren't.

    There is and will never be "alleged spy" on board. If Researchers release benos, it's their problem. Its not like MP's bother to do any paperwork, or atleast acknowledge that benos are around and Marines are way better in dealing with shipside benos than MP's are.

    MP's without original SS13 space station antags are purposless and bad.
    Congratulations you were brigged for ... what... five minutes? I mean I don't brig for FFP but I guess that it's not the end of the world if people charge for RP enforcement. Well I almost brigged for FFP once as CMP. I enforced an NJP for an unsecured weapon once against a marine who thought it was cool to aim his dual-wielded submachine guns at an IO in the req line. I took him to the firing range to demonstrate proper weapon handling and what did he do but spray and pray while strafing from two tiles away from the counter while a bravo engi was firing his pistol. I said, all right you don't get it, and began to escort him to the brig for 5 minutes. SL asked me what's up, I explained and after discussion released the PFC into the SL's custody without brigging him.

    Still, how does 5 minutes for RP enforcement ruin your round or your attitude?

    ...or were you baiting the MP so you could ahelp? Was that just another "trap card" for someone to activate?
    Last edited by alexpkeaton; 12-16-2019 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Details details. Deployed trap.

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    Member Mr-Herr-San's Avatar
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    A culture consisting primarily of meme talk and salt, has the unsurprising side effect of creating a user base that over exaggerates details to the extent that they believe themselves to be correct, and disregard any opposing views. And indeed quite the opposite with regards to the manner in which some actions are attributed to Delta being disregarded as having any negative impact.

    I agree with everything alexpkeaton has stated, we need MP's. And we need to understand marines during briefing have to keep their magnum dongs in their pants until after it's over, which is what I tell them from time to time. Equally so, admins should be more vigorous in ascertaining which MP's are being abrasive and intentionally hostile, and then job ban them. I've had MP's fail to notice I was being undressed as an XO in briefing, and I mean fully, they stole ALL my clothes. Yet at another time an MP tazed and dragged off a marine for feeding me a pretzel.

    I believe marine law and the SOP need to be elaborated and expounded, not condensed.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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