MP hate is a scam to lower RP standards - prove me wrong

[CABAL]

Like anyone gives shit about RP at this point. Oh, smoke nade in brieffing hurts your MP eye? It's a good thing FUCKING SANTA HAT AND XENOMASS TREE IN BRIEFFING is totally 100% ok and not violates any rules and is not against RP.
Oh, researcher breeding xenos on the ship without any premission, not even informing command? *sleep*
Oh, training nade in brieffing? STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!
Oh, Freelancers/PMC's grabbing stuff from all over Almayer, stealing everything that is even bolted to the floor? *sleep*
Oh, two marines fighting each other, both agreeing for this fist fight, no knifes, no weapons? "Fuck your cunt you shit eating c********r man eat a d**g fucking mass ending shitfuck eat p***s in your fuckface and shitout a******n of fuck and do shit in your ass you c**k fuck shit monkey ass w****r from the depths of shit!"

MP mains in short.

Wake up. Put a little make up. Nobody (who can change anything) gives shit about RP and any major crime is against the rules anyway. MP's have no purpose. They could arguably enforce RP, but that shit doesn't exist, even LRP is not present. The moment MP gave lawfull charges for "Failure to Follow Procedure", because marine was wearing helmet that he couldn't get in req, or cryo, or his prep while fucking SANTA HATS were standar issue, caused sudden and major ZUCC of all the RP that was left on the server.

Nobody sees this hypocrisy? MP mains arguing about severe OOC punishment for "LRP" while entire server introduces LRP shit each year, each minor and major holiday, each fucking stupid date is followed by some random, totally not fitting to the "Military Ship in the future" aesthetic, yet the same MP mains want that some poor marine, who throwed training nade into Briefing, to be OOC punished.

I was wrong MP serve no purpose after 12:30. They never serve any purpose from the beginning. They are what researcher was before his rework. He could do something beneficial, but didn't had to and could accidentaly lock himself in research chamber without headset and nobody would notice.
Major "Crimes" are already OOC punishable. Minor crimes doesn't really matter at all.
Let's review them now:
"Failure to Follow Procedure": Just because somebody is not wearing shoes, or carries a gun in backpack as civilian, hurts anyone gameplay? It hurts RP, but as we already established this doesn't matter as RP is just a vague term currently and serves only one purpose, which is to wash your mouth and screech if you don't like what certain player is doing. If you think it is fine what other player does, or doesn't, then you don't call it breaking RP and then it isn't for some reason. No MP's required.
"Damage to Government Property": Destroyed window, or deconstructed chair won't do anyone any harm (outside RP, but you know the drill at this point). Any major damage (like engine, or Req vendor) is already OOC punishable. No MP's required.
"Prevarication": In most cases MP's order arrests, so if it is unlawfull, they already get their OOC ass beaten. In terms of officers, if they do it more than on accident, it's already under rule of "no grieffing". No MP's required.
"Hooliganism": "... Things such as excessive window knocking, force-feeding other marines or failing to conduct oneself properly during briefing." Oh no! EXCESSIVE WINDOW KNOCKING! Like spamming chat wasn't already OOC issue. FORCE-FEEDING! Eating too much doesn't even slow you, so what is the point?
"Trespassing": Could be the one thing that affects gameplay in some way, but remember: There are no marine antags shipside. What could possibly a marine do in area that he isn't supposed to be?
"Insubordination": "Failing to follow a lawful order from a superior. Using offensive names or being directly disrespectful to someone of a higher rank or position". I witnessed BE's for calling names for CO's mom. No MP needed.
"Intoxication": OH NO! This marine is DRUNK! HE JUST GAINED ANTAG STATUS UNTILL HE WILL SOBER AND CAN KILL EVERYONE! BETTER TO STOP HIM! Oh, wait, he can't.
"Contraband": OH NO! THIS MARINE BROUGHT SHOTGUN FROM COLONY! Oh wait, it doesn't affect anything. Researcher drugged someone? OOC. No MP's needed.
"Theft": Also one of those kinds that could fall into MP's territory, but if stolen object is important, then it is OOC.

Rest from Major and Capital is either OOC already, or is resolved via BE. Crumbs of "Crimes" left are resolved by squads and marines themselfs. Some Grape is beating Bravo in RO line? Either they stop, or Req will stay closed. Some Alpha is beating Deltard in bunks with ill intent? Better for both squads to separate them and teach aggressor the lesson.

MP's have 0 purpose as long as RP doesn't exist and RP on this server can be only in two extremes: Not at all, or Facist Camp Faweh Alt Apop Halt! level.
Give MP's reason to exist, give MP's role that benefits marines (for example FoB protectors. Why can't there be more MP slots, but some will be relegated to do the most boring job of sitting in FoB where other squads fight so far away, you can't even hear shoots, or roars and the only MD ping you will get are dragged beno corpses).
Untill then you can't even dream about MP's staying as legit and not hated role. I have to admit that probably the best case scenario is for MP's to be on normal SS13 station security level. A good start if I would say so myself.

[Nichodemius]

Cabal really? Sorry but I'm just going to be blunt.
If you hate it so? Go. Let's again pick up the parts you bring up and respond:
- If Santa hat was against ML I would punish. But it is just a event reskin. Don't like it that much, don't play for a while, might be good for you.
- Res or CL or whatever breeding Xenos? I always check with CO and will stop them if not authorized. I think you just wish it can never be done because it doesn't fit your personal vieuw of good RP. You join and play on this server like me, we both have our vieuws. But it is their server. I think the hats are ugly there, but further than that I don't care.
- Within MP manpower I work against any damage to the ship freelancer/... /marine whatever. Since this discussion I noticed a increase in quality of MP CMP and decrease of chuckle and damage (such as squad req break ins) Do I see bad CMPs or such? Sure and the extra attention makes others try it and fuck it up being new. If CO CE allows all chairs to be claimed for metal it is lawful, do I like it? No. I am the MP that stops the medics from taking our trays and stuff. It is there to securely allow dangerous prisoners to be healed. Removal means we need to drag em could lose em etc.
But I don't hissy fit because all the RP isn't on my "personal standard"
- delta has a motivational spank gimmick. This cannot be considered a crime, not anywhere in ML. Assault has ill intent written in there. Technically 2 marines can do a fist fight. But they are under orders to deploy. NoD. And how can you defend that and hate Santa.
- No use? Even if that's the case, how about me just liking the role and playing it for fun. Point of a game? I would love a janitor role! I know where the trash goes and no one sets on the track to the recycler. I clean preps as MT CT even if calm as MP while checking for break ins. I secure the dangerous equipment where it belongs. I can roleplay in many locations because everyone has their department the entire almeyer is mine.
Then next use. Do you want admins or mods to handle everything? Boink allot, frustration for them not being able to play anymore. We are handling a few things IC so they don't have to ooc. After all their characters might be miles away IC they can't do shit. Do we need to power trip as "yay mini mod rôle" no if the person thinks like that he shouldn't MP.
- your FFP point is just a repeat of you not liking it that RP standards are not what you want. You are NOT the master of what is no /Lrp/Mrp/Hrp or what this server should be.
- damage to... Same deal because you devaluate the RP you mention it doesn't matter and does no harm. No sorry you don't descide that, so for squad prep break in We have a use!
- prev will indeed not see much use. But a new MP/CMP will get me on his ass for prev if he does it. Be glad it doesn't happen allot. A officer does it on accident ok now you want a mod to warn him it is wrong? What about IC he plays out a sudden change of heart or insta SSD? No IC it continues, I got order find out why. Arrest, hear counter tale, depending on the case I can either already do prev or suggest appeal.
Appeal is largely misunderstood by everyone anyways. Even if it was the CMP picking on you, appeal really do a appeal. hell assign me the MP as your defense. You will see how much I can do with a pen and paper.
My kit includes a clipboard for a reason (god I love the clipboard) I'm not the most robust MP but God do I know how to move things.
- hooliganism. Force feeding isn't just food. How about pills. Again window knocking you discredit because it's your RP or no RP pure min max. No you don't descide that. I won't arrest for a knock or 2 but if it is done to annoy not drag attention I will prod you.
- trespass again your RP style isn't used so fuck RP let's take all attaches guns metal everywhere. No. Same point.
Starting to see a repeating pattern? Your problem with ML/MP all comes from your entitled attitude my RP or none and minmax you should chill and enjoy it at face value. Does a movie mistake ruin every movie for you? Enjoy it yes not everything is realistic.
- insub can never lead to a BE. A exécution and BE are different. Also I never saw a insub yelling CO is a idiot result in a execution. Hell if it results in perma for a singular case you best believe I as an MP will be working on it even against the CO. But does he keep doing it, use brig radio and continues,... Well then by all means perma no radio. He's being a chuckle.
- intox hmmm Not your RP level so RP doesn't matter so let him do it and continue to fight? Check again that repeating pattern.
- contraband a shotgun from OA on a marine is not contraband do you even know ML and SOP?
Let me help:
SOP Any potentially useful equipment found in the AO such as weapons or tools may be requisitioned for military use.
Researcher drugged sure ooc can step in but what happens IC someone magically pruned of chems research forced SSD? No I am there and me jailing him shows he did a crime so admins mods don't need to waste time.
Some rounds it can be only a few things they can handle it but it can also be the spammt chuckle round especially if you want them to do everything because you think MPs should be gone because if it is not your style of RP it should be no RP (well you consider it no / random RP)
- theft again the pattern
- you mention BE allot it should be quite rare
BE in short only CO not aCO or lower only CO has to do it.
The threat or harm to person or ship part requires the CO personally to be there and see it happen! Someone telling the CO person X killed 5 marines credible or not Is NOT a BE.
Credibly threatening - or attempting to remove your command by illegal means is very limited. This is why I as an MP can legally report him to high command. And why I can and will stand up to bad COs without even needing a mutiny.

Really see if the following statement doesn't ring true to you try to self reflect a bit.
RP is not by your standards, you consider it random at best and if it's random who cares then it should be mute. Because it is mute MP a RP heavy role becomes useless and any actions they do is mute too since you consider it random. It frustrates you that some things are ignored others are not largely caused by your precieved random levels of RP.

To that I say we play on this server, we are visitors it is a game it won't be 100% nor will it be "your level of RP" some randomness is true though and needed. Because people need to learn.
A simple example I have brigged assaults with deadly weapons. Offcourse.
I also ignored them. Ooc violation ban me! No the person was clearly new. I helped the wounded to medical. And instead handled him NJP yes NJP namely a reprimand. Stow your weapon so you don't accidentally shoot idiot or I'm jailing you next time.
Hell even experienced players can have a fuck up. I am on a laptop I have had accidental clicks because I touched the pad.
If I get a ping I'll explain the mods are allot more reasonable and understand there are situations and exceptions. You are the strict stickler or fuck it all person.

Sorry about being rough but perhaps this wakes you if not this at least shows others that well... Your full of shit open your eyes man.

[Troika]

I was once stuffed into jail for being out of uniform, despite the fact that due to power being out, I physically couldn't enter the squad prep to wear clothes, and with no radio I couldn't let anyone know except by going and talking to someone. Unfortunately the first person I ran into was an MP.

[Nichodemius]

When next to a ship intercom :i or click it and engage.
Head to req they have uniforms do not head to medical.
Normally he should tell you to get dressed and then you tell him the issue. If he was an idiot that did not give a warning make a appeal. This cannot be denied.
The person working your case can then check if power indeed was out or recently repaired. The very least you should then be released but actually optimally a NOD charge also has to be applied to said MP.
If you do not get a appeal you now have double ahelp reason:
MP guilty of NOD for the arrest and for refusing the appeal.
He needs to be pinged if no one set him straight IC.

Edit: while examples like this indeed prove the point MP hate isn't just a scam. This is already largely repeated in here. Pure case examples might be best moved to my post about them I then also give a much more structured fun awnser.

[Troika]

I did ahelp at the time but Feweh personally marked it as an IC issue, so RIP.

[CABAL]

SNIP

Yeah, Santa fuckhats weren't against ML, but admit: They were against any "RP level". Not only imaginative "My RP level", but objectively 0RP/LRP. Objectively against MRP of a Military Ship and Military Unit in Space responding to the Distress Signal.
My eyes might be full of shit, but they are full of MP and LRP shit.
I don't care you would arrest if Santa Hats were against ML. The fact that they existed and were forced, destroyes the very fundation of RP (also the fact that no MP including You never had any argument about Santa Hats). In what possible scanario a military unit in any point of history, or today, would fucking force soldiers to wear Santa Hats on the real mission?
If wearing santa fuckhats is only breaking "my level of RP" and it's not breaking "your level of RP", then "your level of RP" is full of bullshit. Just because they existed and will exist in the future, make any "MP RP" argument invalid. If MP couldn't arrest for Santa Hats, then they can't wash their mouth with "We are here to strike down LRP shenanigans", because they didn't. When real LRP happened, MP's had fucking balls to issue FPP for PFC wearing PO helmet. But pp was too smoll to truly shake the server with Santa Fuckhats. That would grant them my respect, really fighting with LRP.
Do you remember the scene from Full Metal Jacket where Joker was confronted for "Peace" symbol on his helmet? Now imagine that this "higher up guy" was wearing fucking straw hat and fake mustache, because they were "standard issue", but had issue with "Peace" symbol. That was MP's are. Smol pp.

"- Res or CL or whatever breeding Xenos? I always check with CO and will stop them if not authorized. I think you just wish it can never be done because it doesn't fit your personal vieuw of good RP."
What the fuck you are saying?

Oh, researcher breeding xenos on the ship without any premission, not even informing command? *sleep*

Check out the big, red text. Is that saying it doesn't "fit my RP level" and I don't want researchers breeding benos on the ship? Or maybe I think that it's objectively LRP to breed fucking killing machines in secret as a stable individual who can't be antag? It's kinda fun to have benos onboard and it's also fun to hunt them down when they escape, but IT'S FUCKING LRP FOR RESEARCHER TO KEEP THAT IN SECRET AND IT IS EVEN BIGGER LRP FOR MP'S TO NOT IMMEDIATELY ARREST RESEARCHER WHEN HE DOES IT.
Did you see Your pattern? You imagine and misinterpret what I'm saying. In short: All I'm saying that server isn't MRP, LRP is forced by staff and MP's, but then MP's use "I keep RP standard by busting marines for minor crimes and throwing training nade into brieffing is LRP" argument.
That has nothing to do with "my RP level" (or has, you have to only imagine that "my RP level" is just MRP standard).

And no, I don't want more OOC interaction from staff, but what my previous post was about: MP's are useless when RP isn't considered and it isn't and if somebody says otherwise:

"RP is not by your standards, you consider it random at best and if it's random who cares then it should be mute. Because it is mute MP a RP heavy role becomes useless and any actions they do is mute too since you consider it random. It frustrates you that some things are ignored others are not largely caused by your precieved random levels of RP."
RP is not by MRP standards. I don't have my own "RP standards" of how server should be. It should be as it is written: MRP. RP is not random, RP is either LRP, or non-existant. MP isn't "RP heavy role". MP exist only as backseat moderator. It indeed frustrate me that some things are ignored, others are not, but entirely caused by objective MRP standard.

Stop with the fucking "Your level of RP". Such thing doesn't exist, you imagined it. Please, read the definition of MRP and then apply it to the server.
So... What is the conclusion?

[Nichodemius]

What definition of MRP are you refering to?

Roleplay Standards

Marines: All personnel employed by the USCM are mentally stable and physically fit for duty. They would not desert their post or go against the USCM without a good reason. Marriages are forbidden, no two people employed by the USCM on the same ship may be married. The USCM has knowledge of most threats, including all human forces (UPP, CLF, PMC, etc) and general knowledge of the Xenomorph hive structure. The USCM does not know there is a Xenomorph threat on the planet of operation unless that information is given in a custom event.

Rule 2. Roleplay - CM-SS13 is intended to be a Medium Roleplay server. Play a reasonably realistic character. Treat your character as a separate entity from you, the player. Your character's actions, feelings, and knowledge in-game should be based solely on the character's experiences and not your own as the player. Low roleplay actions that have no regard for your character or the setting (Memes, silly copypaste spam IC) are not acceptable. Character development can occur over rounds but each round is a soft-reset, meaning you can have previous mission experience but your character will never have died or fled the ship in the past. Both Marines and Xeno know of the others existence, but this does not guarantee every round is Marine vs Xeno (IE: Human vs Human events can still happen without you being aware). Follow the Roleplay Standards.

These two? You know how much leeway these allow? Thats why I say your or mine and server precieved level.
Saying apply to server is kinda stupid because we'd both think of diffirent examples and diffirent verdicts.
Give actual examples and lets discuss them. But should we do that here?

I'll do one more here but again make a RP discussion post for example I made a MP audit post.

Now a small example of leeway and what is MRP?

Brig has a medical subsection. Roleplay wise it is to treat dangerous criminals, now lets say a doc wants those to go planetside.
If the op is going bad like total fubar all hands on deck all materials get used. But are these tools going to make a change? Perhaps a evac should be called.
My point of vieuw as MRP is it should stay in brig. It is there for dangerous criminals. Dragging it to the front is both ineffective and why not then allow every req break in to happen or armory's to be raided? For me while it helps the front it feels like LRP demanding it vs MRP keeping it. Others (not saying its you) consider keeping it hard ass LRP and delivering it MRP because 'the warfront' but we have evacs this isnt a trench war of old. Leave the planet bomb it nuke it come back with more forces cant happen ingame (well nuke sorta) but still exsist in RP reasons.

What rule clearly defines who is at the right here? What side is MRP and what side LRP?

Small side note I saw your red text. Must I red text my line of I stop them when not authorized? But you keep bringing up illegal breeding as if it happens allot. If it does and I'm MP i'll stop it. But I don't beat down run in with an M41 and execute the researcher or whatsnot. If I was CO I would never BE but damn right he would be perma'd and the specimens executed. I went after CL because someone told me he might have been breeding xeno's we did an entire search is was a false alarm. But I went after it then apologized to him all IC. If a nutty researcher breaks the rules fuck command and breeds xeno's everytime. Yes OOC interaction is needed cause his IC character is a fuck head. Not mentally stable because he's going against USCM for no reason over and over. Kick his ass a bit admins.

So yes there is a level of RP thing everyone has it. And also remember:
Rule 0. Admins (not Mentors or Mods) retain the authority to ignore the enforcement of specific rules at their discretion when they feel it is in the best interest of the current round, the server, or the player base at large. However, they are fully accountable for their actions when they exercise this privilege.

If they want santa hats because they believe its funny and will lift spirits of the players. That is their right. You are calling them out on it. I don't like it cause they are ugly. They hopefully read take it into account and descide you know what fuck these two sticklers. The others laughed at it (And I did giggle at santa queen!)
Hell make the RPG fire fireworks of death. I'd giggle again. The massive santa hats just get dull and dont make me giggle. Others think its cute or funny. So we told our piece why do you keep going at it?
This is why I never argued them besides now again mentioning I think they are fuggly I like my ginger pony tail.

And I mostly mention the RP level diffirence because you use that to discredit the use of MP's
MP's have a use. I mentioned many from small things like enjoying the role to others like helping reduce the pings and ahelp mentor spams needed.
I would love a janitor role! Does it have a use outside of RP? Well no. Is it hard to impliment yes because he'd need to be able to access like a MP to clean everything. No marine will turn around to let him in and out to clean prep. Or have a MP following his ass 24/7. (Why I do light jani work as a MP when its calm kek)

[CABAL]

"Low roleplay actions that have no regard for your character or the setting (Memes, silly copypaste spam IC) are not acceptable."

Hmmm... Do you know how much leeway it doesn't allow? You know the setting? Military Ship responding to the real distress signal. Not a drill, not a experiment, not LARP session, not a Paintball in spess.
Just that one sentence restrict LRP actions very fricking hard. Can you guess what doesn't fit the setting? Fucking santa hats.

Here is your first example to discuss: Santa Hats as standard issue helmets.
Second: There is actually no law against secretly breeding benos on the ship. You would arrest Researcher for doing that? What charges would you give? IT DOESN'T EXIST! Someone who advocates for MP's, doesn't even know this single fact.
What? NoD for it? It's researcher duty to research, can't use this card. See? SoP doesn't say shit about xenobiological specimens.

Small side note I saw your red text. Must I red text my line of I stop them when not authorized? But you keep bringing up illegal breeding as if it happens allot. If it does and I'm MP i'll stop it.

You can't... Hehe. In the setting and in "Your RP standard" you can't arrest him for crimes that aren't crimes in the eyes of ML.

I don't give two flying fucks what staff thinks, or not. They are not playing by their own rules (giving yourself rule, that you can break all rules is simply stupid and still breaks the rules, atleast takes away your right to complain about LRP when you, yourself break the very rules you want to enforce) so fuck 'em. This is not thread about them. This is thread about MP's, who are like baby versions of Staff Parents with OOC protection, on the backseat in car seat for children. If parent don't behave in a good way, their child won't too.

Without RP, MP's have no reason to exist on TDM server. You might not see it, but it is that way.

"Brig has a medical subsection. Roleplay wise it is to treat dangerous criminals, now lets say a doc wants those to go planetside.
If the op is going bad like total fubar all hands on deck all materials get used. But are these tools going to make a change? Perhaps a evac should be called.
My point of vieuw as MRP is it should stay in brig. It is there for dangerous criminals."

You know that just not deploying makes you "a dangerous criminal"? Instead of NoD you get desertion. Yeah, it's sooooooooooooo logical to keep them in brig, instead of fucking dropping them cuffed in DS, kick in the ass to LZ and fly up? Ahhh... "Your Roleplay Standard" is in the way, right?

[Chocolate_bickie]

snip

CABAL: Make server fun devs
DEV: 'spawns santa hats'
CABAL: See server lrp get rid of MP
DEV: 'Visible confusion'

Santa hats, like events, are added for fun, but I guess you'd just rather server went HRP and we have HvX all day everyday, no events, no updates.

Also a researcher not informing the Captain of the ship their on that they are breeding xenos is NoD. Most research staff irl have to write long boring preliminary reports of any work they plan to do as well as risk assessments and ethics reviews.

If your breeding an animal you need permits and shit.

Admemes ruled ages ago that not deploying isn't desertion if you have a reason to be shipside.

[CABAL]

CABAL: Make server fun devs
DEV: 'spawns santa hats'
CABAL: See server lrp get rid of MP
DEV: 'Visible confusion'

Santa hats, like events, are added for fun, but I guess you'd just rather server went HRP and we have HvX all day everyday, no events, no updates.

Also a researcher not informing the Captain of the ship their on that they are breeding xenos is NoD. Most research staff irl have to write long boring preliminary reports of any work they plan to do as well as risk assessments and ethics reviews.

If your breeding an animal you need permits and shit.

Admemes ruled ages ago that not deploying isn't desertion if you have a reason to be shipside.

CABAL: Don't do stupid shit that ruins the little RP there is, add fun gameplay mechanics like Combat Loaders, Cybernetics and balance the game around 50 - 50.
DEV: 'does stupid shit (santa fuckhats) anyway and doesn't do anything cool'
ADMEME: 'Spawns normal helmets, because they literally have no jurisdiction over devs and they know forcing santa hats is stupid'
CABAL: After crumbs of RP we had were zuccked via stupid LRP shit vaccum cleaner, MP's have no purpose other than soft-grief.
Chocolate_bickie: CABAL clearly wants HRP and HvX 24/7 with no events and no updates (despite the fact of his vocal enjoyment of zombie and SCP rounds, generally anything that removes benos)
CABAL: 'visible confusion'

"Failure to perform one’s role to an acceptable standard. For example, a Commanding Officer failing to properly organize and ensure his personnel are given orders, failing to follow proper procedure in detriment of one’s duties, or ship crew leaving the ship without authorization from the Commanding Officer or their Department Head. Any officer who commits a crime may be charged with Neglect of Duty in addition to the appropriate crimes."
Not even mentioned that as Researcher you have to inform anyone. It is clearly stated that you can't deploy as researcher without CMO approval, but breeding benos is left totally not mentioned. Such extremely important part that should be a Capital Crime (don't say that breeding fucking benos isn't like potentialy endangering entire fucking crew). Stretching definition out of ass isn't the solution.

Admemes ruled ages ago that you can not deploy and not face OOC consequences if you deployed once and saw horrors planetside (benos killing marines etc). You still will get IC punishment. Reason, or not, if you are Combat role, you have to deploy, or atleast face Desertion. Which is stupid. Which I was charged and brigged for. Which was ahelped. Which I ahelped. Which I know.