MP hate is a scam to lower RP standards - prove me wrong

[RaddishRed]

Sorry you've had a bad experience with MPs and I hope you have better ones.

Your situation is definitely concerning to me, I mean SO's do sometimes get in an MPs face over an arrest. But I wouldn't brig an SO over asking questions. Now if they were getting in my face and preventing me from processing someone I would ask them to leave and if they refused I might threaten trespassing. But that's all so long as there's no violence.

It's important to remember that SL's are not above the law. I've seen SL's and specialists take advantage of this sort of thinking, that they are too important to arrest. Indeed in these cases the squad came to their aid and briefing was a shitshow. I wouldn't brig a SL over a minor crime. However, MPs hands are tied if a major/capital crime is committed, and you don't get permaed over minor briefing shenanigans so something must have happened with that SL or he made things worse for himself by escalating a minor into a major (into a capital?).

As for the number of people in perma, wow I've never seen that. I mean there's been times with brig breaks I suppose there could have been more than that number in perma but that presumes I am able to capture them. Not going to happen with my lack of robustness. However the number of people in perma does not mean the charges were illegitimate. If I had to guess I'd say they all tried to break someone out. But that's only a guess.

If this is the round I'm thinking of then an order was given for mandatory helmets, some people decided to be too cool for school and got arrested.

I wasn't involved in that but anyone who actually played MP knows how those things spiral down.
Order to enforce the law is given and so you MUST enforce that law. PFCs see their SL/Spec/SG baiting and getting arrested, jump in and it just goes on and on from there.

[Rekrul]

MPs are a needed job role albeit not a mandatory one for the marines to win a round.. They still provide a whole branch of role play possibilities for not only the marines but command staff, medical and survivors/responders/CL.

That being said I really don't think the majority of the players or staff on the server would want the RP standards really lowered from where they are now, maybe some tweaks here and there for both marines and xenos standards.

People love to hate MPs but honestly don't take anything you see in dead chat or OOC seriously.. A marine yelling about how an MP arrested him for wearing a Boonie Hat, despite the CO/XO ordering all marines to wear a helmet so they can see them via the squad monitor cam is just jokes. It's honestly hard to tell when someone is being serious or trolling when complaining about something like balance or how bad command/MP were. At the end of the day everyone is just trying to have a fun round no matter what role they're playing.

[Corocan]

Anyone vouching for removal of MPs needs to go spend some time on hippie and then come back and try and imagine that experience but with 100+ people most days. If you think that's an alternative (if you can even call it that) you're probably the reason MPs exist in the first place.

Marine Law as it is, is mostly fine and its sharper edges tend to be the fault of bad interpretation. I think the CMP and CO should be more liberal with their applications of neglect of duty charges (and subsequent demotions) to bad MPs and staff in general should remain extremely critical of MP behavior.

We all have MP horror stories, but it's not like MPs who stay out of trouble are getting their praises sang in the streets, so try not to let it completely ruin your experience with MPs in general.

[Adasis]

I can say that 3 out of the four people in perma were in there for SEDITION or Desertion (Aiding and abetting desertion, if we want to be precise)

The SL actually ASKED to be perma'ed (He was rather salty about his 20 minute timer) and when we refused to randomly increase it, he began to purposefully commit crimes (DASO) infront of myself, the CMP, and was perma brigged.

Admins fully support the detention of those individuals as they were extremely clear cut cases. While it can be more popular to say "MPs bad, marines good", the reality of the situation is usually a lot more bland. The staff are usually on the ball with newer MPs (Which we had that round) and usually nip them in the bud quite swiftly, when made aware.

As your your specific arrest, I cant say as I was dealing with another situation elsewhere during this time.

Don't worry solidfury, As I said before I didn't need to wait my time, So I was not punished and you could say that I was annoying. I was just trying to explain that it's better to let the MPs alone and do not interfere or things can go wrong. Basically I'm saying that most of the interactions that a marine is going to have with an MP is always related to arrests. So it's normal that they hate them.

About the reasons of the arrests on the round that I screenshotted If you were the CMP then I can expect that all those arrest were fair.

That being said I once worked with one CMP that helped me to save a marine that was next to the LZ alone asking for rescue and she sent her MPs on the DS "Guarding the DS" and saving the marine. By the way the MPs never left the DS it was all according to the procedure. CMPs can be nice too as you can see.


P.D. Solidfury don't think that I'm angry at you or anything. I know some people was talking OOC that I should do a ban appeal but I didn't do it and never thought of doing it.

[Akabinxstar]

I got arrested and put in perma for saying "Do I smell jailbreak?" Not only did a jailbreak not happen at all, But no onr rven considered doing a jaikbreak. Basically I got put in perma for 10 minutes for a joke, which is pretty fucking gay

[MystersSpy/David Hovey]

Problem with MPs is that the few of them that push it to the limit/the few times the CO (I'm looking at you Carson) actively eggs the MPs on to push it defines them. It's not some crazy scam, it's just people associating ALL MPs with those specific circumstances.A GOOD MP I have no issue with, as a matter of fact I (and probably a large portion of the entire community) have never been arrested, it's just those bad ones can define the whole group.

[BeardedWall]

I got arrested and put in perma for saying "Do I smell jailbreak?" Not only did a jailbreak not happen at all, But no onr rven considered doing a jaikbreak. Basically I got put in perma for 10 minutes for a joke, which is pretty fucking gay

The synth unit (me) was also executed for sedition that round

It was a fucking bananas round.

It ended with no less than 9 marines lined up against the wall for execution when the munity blew the doors off the brig with grenades

[Jeether]

From experience as both MP and marine for what, 5 years? Both sides have dicks who antagonise each other and just want to re create some delta mutiny shenanigans scenario.

Thats it. Marine Law needs a HEAVY re-work on a ton of shit. It might have worked back in Sulaco and 50 players highpop, but its just not fitting with current CM. It needs a big, big limitation on interpreting laws, actual re-wording, or holding MPs to a higher Standard when it comes to charges. Power tripping MPs happen often, and need to be controlled in a manner that does not affect people actually wanting to play the role correctly.

On another hand, you have an entire social bubble created around hating MPs because some crewcut just discovered that he can ruin rounds with a single wiki Page. They gave a bad reputation to the real cops, and now the real guys need to adapt their behaviour to ultra-strict, because otherwise, some people will wreck havoc on the ship because "Fuck MPs, lmao"

Bad handling on arrest happens because the MP, the arrested, or both dont even understand what "One charge per unlawful event" means.

[Nichodemius]

First a little foreword and backstory.

I'm a bit of a forum lurker (Quick a lurker need OB at LZ1!) so before the 1 post ignore comments pop up do try to give me a read.
I'll hide backstory's under spoilers so you can either just read my 2 cents or also see the round story's behind them.
But round story's make posts BIG heh.

After trying many roles I have been running MP. I like to play a role for a while to learn it and see if I want it in my rotation.
Oddly enough MP hits quite different and I love it quite allot. Sure I have much more to learn but hopefully I'll get there.
From my experience I believe the issue is more complex and allot of things working into eachother.

We are a line against meta gaming and meant to help RP standards besides our regular MP IC role.
But also as RP standards drop we actually lose in power and effectiveness. Where our presence would stop crime untill we leave.
When RP lowers and punishments begin to lack, crimes will be even commited right infront of our faces because "what can a MP do vs a squad?".
And this is true as RP lowers and meta climbs more people do it and we begin to lack the manpower to be a a force against the degradation.

Some may believe RP has no place on the front. (there is even a poll about the split community)
I disagree strongly RP can help at the front if you know how to use it. A lone robusto might be a danger but under the spoiler are a few story's that I a non robusto did to make sure I survive and combat or situation improves for my side thanks to a little RP.

The problems within security department:

These problems not only cause issues within but also are a big reason why people distrust security. If our own house is not clean we can not begin to work on delta shenanigans.

• CMP's fail to know they are not just there to check on the MP's. They are also there to help the MP's be able to do their work. Is someone spamming command or even worse regular broadcast "Unlawful arrest" Tell them you'll look into it but for them to stop yelling and make a panic. This is a big one! Or do you enjoy the many jailbreaks and mutiny's. The marines are a pack you help direct their direction like this.
• CMP's should do allot less field work! If they start yelling unlawful arrest against you. Your respect and power is gone. You have MP's they arrest, you check if they do correct times etc. Only go arrest when needed. Someone calls you on comms like RO for a CT thats insub? Send one of your goons while you ask the name and set them to wanted. You shouldn't even need to go there.
• MP's and CMP's should never ever meta game! This happens too much! Getting shotguns, fully kitted rifles, useing your access to gear up for Almeyer boarding situation at round start!
• Sentances do not stack as you see fit. Manslaughter even if done many times should not be perma. Especially as an MP you do not descide the elevation of punishments!
• Security should not be afraid to focus inwards and first punish other security like said meta gamers.
• Please for the love of god do not LOOC piss contest about how much you know marine law and how you played on server X so this shit is easy for you with the marine your arresting. Especially as CMP...

• Dont be a chucklefuck, don't change charges willy nilly, set wrong timers, run prisoners cuffed to you around the entire ship instead of brigging them...

• In general as security never use LOOC unless its to help someone complete a action by telling them how to do it!

Things like wrong timers are minor and will be learned with experience. But the other chuckle and meta things need to be adressed and fixed before we can focus outward!
If people begin to trust our arrests and know the names of the good MP's and CMP's they will change the attitude from "Unlawful! Jailbreak! Mutiny!" to Mikey what the hell did you do you chucklefuck. I wont stop the MP or even help tackle Mikey.

A few outwards issues that weaken the MP role but are fixed by being a good MP:

• Yelling unlawful 24/7 if they trust you, you'll have allot of slack.
• Insane escalations due to pack mentality vs bad MP's will change because MP's are trusted.
• Some people actually do not care about MP's and want them gone or to have a bad time. Eventually they'll be the last chucklefucks and they'll learn we aren't there to be bad.

All of these things I do believe start within security itself and only then can we actually be a source of fun, RP interaction and a boon to the efforts.

Some round examples under spoilers:

The last story shows another rather big issue. Ahelp. If the admins do not know the marine law / server rules / operating procedure well enough. I would have been punished instead of the CMP. CMP's should become a big whitelist role and while I dont like banning I would agree with a job ban untill they learn more as MP. Because even with all I learned I do not feel even I am good enough for CMP yet!

Well there is the big wall I will revieuw and modify the layout if it seems a bit too wally.
Lets see what you guys think about MP scam now. I think parts are justified and security needs to work inwards for a while.

Edit log:
Added point about sentances not stacking (Manslaughter will never become perma or execution, and a single crime can never have more than one charge)

[juliansl]

Snip.

As a person who is generally opposed to MPs, this is the kind of stuff that would make me able to respect them. I played a bit of MP a while ago (Sulaco) and they weren't nearly as bad as many of them are now.

Please MPs read Nicks whole comment.