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Thread: MP hate is a scam to lower RP standards - prove me wrong

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nichodemius View Post
    -snip-
    I agree with a lot of your thoughtful post, thank you for taking the time.

    I believe a lot of the work can be inward but the burden should be placed on the playerbase to do better in addition to MP players. And that means buy-in from staff. This is the only point of departure I have with what you wrote.

    Here's my proposal to staff:

    1. Physically interfering with an arrest (dragging marines away while being cuffed, resetting an MP's cuff timer by walking through them, disarm spamming MPs, etc.) without staff authorization or well-laid RP justification is an OOC rulebreak. Disagreement with the charge leveled by an MP is NOT sufficient RP justification to interfere in the arrest.
    2. Rioting outside of a staff-approved mutiny is an OOC rulebreak.
    3. Suspected violators of 1 & 2 will be asleeped while under investigation. This is meant as a de-escalation tool and as a disincentive for further marines to join.
    4. Players subsequently determined to be in violation of 1 or 2 will be subject to an unappealable 1 hour ban for a first offense with ban lengths increasing for further offenses.
    5. For ringleaders and for particularly egregious violators, ban lengths may be longer for a first offense.


    Don't allow one or two marines to upend an entire round that 100+ players are participating in to their petty narrative.

    Don't rule it an IC issue that a whole squad is interfering with an arrest just because briefing is over.

    And yes, hold MPs to a high standard. Jobban liberally - but if and only if staff does their best to stop chaos when it starts to crop up.

    MPs will make mistakes in chaos, when it is 2 MPs vs. 15 marines grenading and rushing the brig. By the way, that happened. Two live grenades were used to blow up south brig during a so-called "peaceful protest." All that merited was an MOOC: Hey guyyyys. Come on. How many rounds have we all seen that have spiraled out of control because of a single arrest before 12:20. A squad claims a chucklefucking card, MPs get robusted, staff sit on their hands and suddenly a whole squad or two doesn't deploy because staff let it get out of hand.

    The playerbase is acting this way because they know they can get away with it.

    We'll never be able to convince the playerbase that MPs can be good and decent if 1-2 chucklefucks keep being able to upset a round with "one simple trick" - to blatantly ignore server rules.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexpkeaton View Post
    snip
    That sounds like a reasonable compromise, limiting it to only attacking/interfering with MPs when a mutiny is approved.

  3. #73
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    It is technically against the rules for the Marines to integrate with an arrest and it was enforced quite heavily in the past.

    I, as an MP main, pushed for it to be an issue, as I do many things, as I personally feel like OOC protections and rulings while needed at times, can often make the roll much more dull.

    I personally see someone interfering with an arrest as a high risk move, and it some contexts in can make sense. However its heavily punished in game, meaning that Marines are unlikely to do it for just anybody (as happened in the past)

    People have and do end up in the brig from this, ranging from short sentences, to perma brig.

    Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. That is the gamble you take.

    Regarding Marines overwhelming mps, yes, this has occurred often in the past, however in the current meta, it's usually due to MPs lack of preparation.

    You should basically be kitted out to deal with a large scale riot roundstart every round, otherwise, you're going to be useless beyond 2 arrests, which the Marines often count on.

  4. #74
    Whitelisted Captain 50RemAndCounting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solidfury7 View Post
    You should basically be kitted out to deal with a large scale riot roundstart every round, otherwise, you're going to be useless beyond 2 arrests, which the Marines often count on.
    Exactly. If an MP simply walks out of cryo and doesn't take any additional gear, there's not a whole lot they'll be able to do that round.

    I always strive to grab a spare stunprod, flashbangs and a small load of zip cuffs as a minimum.
    Sheeesh this boy LRP as hell!

  5. #75
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    No matter how you equipt. A single MP can not arrest a gang. Yes we can down a gang. But once cuffed how would you prevent them from running and breaking out of the cuffs. Made worse by your love of zip cuffs.

    Not to mention how did you get in that situation. A mass protest is from my experience always caused by command or security. Give marines a fair whip. And it won't happen. Again last few rounds I saw wrong timers, bad procedure, mistakes with arrest released etc status.

    If you kit out for war as an MP what is wrong here. I make do with a single cuff, have cuffed 5+ marines over a round not getting mutiny yelled even getting respect from the people I jail!

  6. #76
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nichodemius View Post
    No matter how you equipt. A single MP can not arrest a gang. Yes we can down a gang. But once cuffed how would you prevent them from running and breaking out of the cuffs. Made worse by your love of zip cuffs.

    Not to mention how did you get in that situation. A mass protest is from my experience always caused by command or security. Give marines a fair whip. And it won't happen. Again last few rounds I saw wrong timers, bad procedure, mistakes with arrest released etc status.

    If you kit out for war as an MP what is wrong here. I make do with a single cuff, have cuffed 5+ marines over a round not getting mutiny yelled even getting respect from the people I jail!
    I've single handedly detained 15 deltas before in high pop, at once. It's not difficult if you have the kit.

    If you're saying being prepared is a mistake, I couldn't disagree more. All roles should be prepared for the worst case scenario. It's their job. Its like saying PFC shouldn't take more than one magazine because the distress could be a false alarm.

    Regarding fairness, I consider myself stern but fair with my charges, I've ranged from lenient to extremely strict and I've found out from my experiences that Marines often make you regret leniency. This is something I've concurred with other mps who started off lenient and become more strict over time.

    99 percent of Marines never end up in the brig. As I've said time and time again, it's the same one percent.

    It's a spec who thinks they are immune from marine law.

    A SL who doesn't want to wear a helmet, and turns a warning in to a perma brig charge.

    It's a marine yelling mutiny or trying to break out other marines.

    It's always the same thing with the same names.

    MPs attract a lot of new people, I originally became a CMP because I was dealing with so many mentor helps that I was easier to deal with it as a makeshift SEA

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nichodemius View Post
    Not to mention how did you get in that situation. A mass protest is from my experience always caused by command or security. Give marines a fair whip. And it won't happen.
    This unfortunately is not true, on the security side at least, in my experience.

    Here's how it usually goes, in Choose your own Adventure style:


    1. "You're under arrest for hooliganism, please lay down!"
    Do you run? If you run, go to page 2. If you comply, go to page 5.

    2. You run! Through the halls you go. You could go to the Dropship or go hide in the dorms. Where do you go?
    If you run to the Dropship, go to page 3. If you run to the dorms to hide in the bathroom, go to page 4.

    3. You run to the dropship! The dropship is crowded with marines. You force your way in as far as you can and hide. There's the MP! He moves toward you and flashes you! He begins applying cuffs. But what's this? A Delta medic you never met is dragging you away! The MP flashes the Delta medic and drags you off the DS. Now three other marines are out! One keeps pushing the MP so he can't apply cuffs, another drags you away and the third disarm spams the MP. You quickly run back to the dropship with your new best friend. Who are they, anyhow? You don't know but they saved you from that 5 minute brig sentence. Now the MP is surrounded by 8 marines and the crowd is growing. You chuckle. "Serves him right," you think.THE END

    4.You're easily found in the bathroom! The MP flashes you. As you get dragged to the brig, the MP says "Why did you run? It was just going to be 5 minutes. Now you've only made things worse for yourself." You grumble while you prepare your adminhelp about how you're getting "25 minutes for pushing a marine." That'll learn that MP... THE END

    5.You comply with the MP's order. It will just be 5 minutes, you think. But... what's this? Here are three marines from your squad and they have dragged you away! They didn't see what you did and honestly they don't look familiar, but they came to help you! "Run!" they say. The MP is now surrounded by 5 marines you don't recognize, and the crowd is growing. But a 2nd MP spots you in the distance. "Hold up!" he yells. In for a dime, in for a dollar, you think. You turn and run.
    Go to page 2.



    That is often how it goes for an MP making an arrest before the first drop. How professional or nice the MP is has no bearing on the situation because other marines who has not interacted with you will see a marine getting cuffed and run to chucklefuck.

    This is why staff intervention is needed.

    THE END

    Check out the other Choose your own AdventureTM stories!

    • Briefing Circus!
    • I survived (so I could fuck with MPs)!
    • Pardon power and you
    • Specialist snowflake

    Last edited by alexpkeaton; 12-22-2019 at 03:27 PM.

  8. #78
    Ancient Member Hunk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexpkeaton View Post
    I agree with a lot of your thoughtful post, thank you for taking the time.

    I believe a lot of the work can be inward but the burden should be placed on the playerbase to do better in addition to MP players. And that means buy-in from staff. This is the only point of departure I have with what you wrote.

    Here's my proposal to staff:

    1. Physically interfering with an arrest (dragging marines away while being cuffed, resetting an MP's cuff timer by walking through them, disarm spamming MPs, etc.) without staff authorization or well-laid RP justification is an OOC rulebreak. Disagreement with the charge leveled by an MP is NOT sufficient RP justification to interfere in the arrest.
    2. Rioting outside of a staff-approved mutiny is an OOC rulebreak.
    3. Suspected violators of 1 & 2 will be asleeped while under investigation. This is meant as a de-escalation tool and as a disincentive for further marines to join.
    4. Players subsequently determined to be in violation of 1 or 2 will be subject to an unappealable 1 hour ban for a first offense with ban lengths increasing for further offenses.
    5. For ringleaders and for particularly egregious violators, ban lengths may be longer for a first offense.


    Don't allow one or two marines to upend an entire round that 100+ players are participating in to their petty narrative.

    Don't rule it an IC issue that a whole squad is interfering with an arrest just because briefing is over.

    And yes, hold MPs to a high standard. Jobban liberally - but if and only if staff does their best to stop chaos when it starts to crop up.

    MPs will make mistakes in chaos, when it is 2 MPs vs. 15 marines grenading and rushing the brig. By the way, that happened. Two live grenades were used to blow up south brig during a so-called "peaceful protest." All that merited was an MOOC: Hey guyyyys. Come on. How many rounds have we all seen that have spiraled out of control because of a single arrest before 12:20. A squad claims a chucklefucking card, MPs get robusted, staff sit on their hands and suddenly a whole squad or two doesn't deploy because staff let it get out of hand.

    The playerbase is acting this way because they know they can get away with it.

    We'll never be able to convince the playerbase that MPs can be good and decent if 1-2 chucklefucks keep being able to upset a round with "one simple trick" - to blatantly ignore server rules.
    That rule enforcement won't see light and i tell you why.

    PFCs have so much leeway in RP that most of the time they LRP and we cannot interfere because any rank under Sergeant is practically immune to LRP unless the player fuck up really hard.

    I see only one good way to deal with marines in large scale ICly, handle over riot gear at round start and make bearbags capable of causing fractures. The only way to MP to actually be able to do its job is intimidate by fear.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexpkeaton View Post
    This unfortunately is not true, on the security side at least, in my experience.

    Here's how it usually goes, in Choose your own Adventure style:


    1. "You're under arrest for hooliganism, please lay down!"
    Do you run? If you run, go to page 2. If you comply, go to page 5.

    2. You run! Through the halls you go. You could go to the Dropship or go hide in the dorms. Where do you go?
    If you run to the Dropship, go to page 3. If you run to the dorms to hide in the bathroom, go to page 4.

    3. You run to the dropship! The dropship is crowded with marines. You force your way in as far as you can and hide. There's the MP! He moves toward you and flashes you! He begins applying cuffs. But what's this? A Delta medic you never met is dragging you away! The MP flashes the Delta medic and drags you off the DS. Now three other marines are out! One keeps pushing the MP so he can't apply cuffs, another drags you away and the third disarm spams the MP. You quickly run back to the dropship with your new best friend. Who are they, anyhow? You don't know but they saved you from that 5 minute brig sentence. Now the MP is surrounded by 8 marines and the crowd is growing. You chuckle. "Serves him right," you think.THE END

    4.You're easily found in the bathroom! The MP flashes you. As you get dragged to the brig, the MP says "Why did you run? It was just going to be 5 minutes. Now you've only made things worse for yourself." You grumble while you prepare your adminhelp about how you're getting "25 minutes for pushing a marine." That'll learn that MP... THE END

    5.You comply with the MP's order. It will just be 5 minutes, you think. But... what's this? Here are three marines from your squad and they have dragged you away! They didn't see what you did and honestly they don't look familiar, but they came to help you! "Run!" they say. The MP is now surrounded by 5 marines you don't recognize, and the crowd is growing. But a 2nd MP spots you in the distance. "Hold up!" he yells. In for a dime, in for a dollar, you think. You turn and run.
    Go to page 2.



    That is often how it goes for an MP making an arrest before the first drop. How professional or nice the MP is has no bearing on the situation because other marines who has not interacted with you will see a marine getting cuffed and run to chucklefuck.

    This is why staff intervention is needed.

    THE END

    Check out the other Choose your own AdventureTM stories!

    • Briefing Circus!
    • I survived (so I could fuck with MPs)!
    • Pardon power and you
    • Specialist snowflake

    Truth is that it DOES serve them right. What kind of gameplay mechanic is waiting?, everything in this game is already centered around waiting or time passing, people are forgiven for not wanting to play watching-paint-dry simulator in a game

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by solidfury7 View Post
    I've single handedly detained 15 deltas before in high pop, at once. SNIP REST
    Ok what kit did you use? Chain multi cuffs? You manage to floor 15 marines cuff 15 and drag 15 to the jail? Undress 15,... No sorry a MP cannot arrest many at the same time.

    Be prepared sure nothing wrong with that but my prep is preventing that situation in first place. What is your prep? With which you can arrest 15 at same time? I really want to know.

    Alex:
    Even amongst delta. The infamous squad. If you handle them correctly they won't push you down if you arrest another delta that broke marine law.

    It's hard though to talk about a situation when you just say hooliganism. You did not mention what he did, is it his first offense? Etc because perhaps a warning should have been your action. Or sometimes you have to stun first. The example is far from informing enough. Add a full story.

    Edit:
    Perhaps a section where we discuss confusing arrests. Are you arrested think it's wrong post it and we can discuss it.
    Last edited by Nichodemius; 12-22-2019 at 06:20 PM.

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